A Scenario of Two Extremes: Gun Politics (RAR!)

[Zor]

In this scenario we have two societies. Both can be described as stable democratic societies (as much as real world countries such as Canada, the US, France or Germany are) with comparably modern first world standards of living and are of comparable size. Despite that, they differ in opinion massively on one major issue, that of Gun Politics. They are as such...

Coltia
Coltia is very much in favor of the idea of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Anyone over the age of sixteen is allowed to buy a Gun and the buying of pistols, sub machine guns, bolt action, semi automatic and assault rifles and Light Machine Guns can be bought over the counter with just a flash of the ID. Weapons such as Mortars, Gatling Weapons, Rocket Launchers and Functional Military vehicles are allowed as well, but these need to be registered with the government and in the case of military vehicles, have a Driver's License to operate. Only Chemical Weapons, Biological Weapons, Heavy Artillery and Nuclear Devices are forbidden. For security purposes, many buildings have remote controlled automatic turrets attached to their CCTV cameras. Most people own a gun and many carry heat on them. Seeing a man walk down the street with an AK-47 is just business as usual. The only people barred from having firearms are prisoners, though it is possible for people to be barred from owning heavier weapons. Police, as such are generally equipped to the same degree as modern soldiers, having attack helicopters and even tanks.

Peelium
Peelium's policy in regards Private Gun ownership is generally summed up with one word.

NO

Civilian Firearms are illegal. No collectors items, no hunting gear, no firing ranges, you get the idea. Only police (armed to a similar degree as Canadian Police Services), wildlife managers, a few government employed bodyguards for VIPs and the military are allowed to use guns, which belong to the state and are turned in at the end of the day. Museums are allowed to have disabled examples of historical guns on display. They also have devised a glove based anti-theft system. Each Police Officer and Bodyguard is given a glove and their is a mechanism installed in their police sidearm. Unless the glove is worn, the gun will not fire. Running guns and making firearms illegally are crimes that are dealt with seriously. Factories that make these guns for export and police use are monitored, as are their inventory. Very few criminals can afford an illegal firearm and those that do generally don't bother with them much due to the fact that finding bullets at a crime scene will normally bring allot more attention by Law Enforcement.

In both cases people don't object to this as and see it as the proper way things should be.

Of these two societies, which one would you rather live in?
NOTE: the Author of this thread in no way wants there to be a major flame war

Zor

[Mr Bean]

Coltia could not survive for long without a Swiss view of guns being acceptable, very wide-spread gun-ownership and a very polite society. However automated gun turrets means we are talking about a society with very low regard for life. So while Coltia might be safer, they are also 90% likely to be a Xenophobic military dictatorship with that kind of setup.

Peelium a question, are the VIP's government officials only or can Celebrity's or religious officials get bodyguards with guns?

[Zor]

Peelium a question, are the VIP's government officials only or can Celebrity's or religious officials get bodyguards with guns?

Mostly for government figures, but also occasionally for foreign dignitaries and people like the pope. Please note that said body is run by the government.

Zor

[Sea Skimmer]

It would more then slightly depend on other aspects of the societies.

[Zor]

It would more then slightly depend on other aspects of the societies.

Could you go into a bit more detail about what you mean?

Zor

[SCRawl]

Not to be too obvious, but if Coltia is a post-scarcity society and Peelium is a post-apocalyptic society, then that would make a difference.

I would imagine that aside from the firearm restrictions, both civilizations would be the same, yes? Otherwise we'd have to control for these other issues, and that might prove difficult.

For the record: Peelia. Aside from the military, law enforcement, and those who live in the boonies I really don't see the need for a person to bear arms.

[Zor]

I would imagine that aside from the firearm restrictions, both civilizations would be the same, yes? Otherwise we'd have to control for these other issues, and that might prove difficult.

Basically yes.

Zor

[weemadando]

I'd like to live in a world where every dispute doesn't have the immediate potential for lethal escalation.

Particularly considering where I work, there'd be shootings daily, with physical and mental traumas for all involved/witnessing it and the associated policing and legal costs. Not to mention things like clean-up. Do you know how much a fucking forensic clean-up post shooting costs?

At least in Peelium, the possession and use of weapons isn't a cultural imperative.

[PeZook]

Doing banking while AUTOMATED GUN TURRETS track your every move would be terrifying.

So...I guess Peelium?

[TimothyC]

Question:

How does Peelium enforce the ban?

[Rabid]

Question:

How does Peelium enforce the ban?

Huh... With law enforcement ?

You mean, how do they enforce it in general principle, or in practice at the day-to-day level ?

In the first case, I'd say in the same way it's done in place without a gun culture, with heavy restriction on the supply side, and enforcement of the policies by the police forces.

As for the day-to-day operations ? Well, the police is armed, if lightly, so they shouldn't have trouble dealing with armed criminal in +80% of the cases I guess ?

[Esquire]

Voted for Peelium, on the grounds that if it should somehow turn out that owning guns is necessary for FREEDOM or prevents cancer or something else like that, it's a lot easier to give people guns than it is to take them away, and there are more convincing anti-gun arguments than pro-gun ones.

[Panzersharkcat]

Voted for Coltium. General lack of trust of governments and all that.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Voted for Coltium, because I like guns. But I actually had to live there, I'd probably go with Peelium.

[YT300000]

This isn't a fair comparison, because the automated turret caveat for Coltia is ridiculous. It's on par with making steak knives illegal in Peelium.

If you remove that condition, Coltia just becomes Vermont. Easy access, open carry allowed, and nearly anyone who wants to be armed can be - but that doesn't mean that everyone is, or walks around with an AKM over their shoulder all day.

[JointStrikeFighter]

I already live in peelium.

[TimothyC]

Question:

How does Peelium enforce the ban?

Huh... With law enforcement ?

You mean, how do they enforce it in general principle, or in practice at the day-to-day level ?

In the first case, I'd say in the same way it's done in place without a gun culture, with heavy restriction on the supply side, and enforcement of the policies by the police forces.

As for the day-to-day operations ? Well, the police is armed, if lightly, so they shouldn't have trouble dealing with armed criminal in +80% of the cases I guess ?

How do you keep people from being able to make their own guns?

I'm serious. Anyone with the right education and their own workshop can put a rather low quality gun together.

"Oh, yes officer, I had extra pipe left over after my last garden project officer, I'm sure it's all there in the storage shed."

It's going to take quite a police state to keep people from making their own, and remember - in the land of knives, the guy with the poor shotgun is king.

[weemadando]

The guy with the poor shotgun is also facing an unbelievably high level of police attention as well as lots of negative attention from fellow criminals who are not appreciative of the level of scrutiny that person has just brought onto them.

[Stark]

It's going to take quite a police state to keep people from making their own, and remember - in the land of knives, the guy with the poor shotgun is king.

Its actually really sad that you think this is a sound argument against gun control.

Remember Ando, even in a hypothetical Zor thread Americans are unable to even imagine a country that isn't America. The scenario explicitly says there is no civil discontent with the policy, so American gun culture is totally inappropriate (along with America's massive level of armament, which makes all kinds of sensible gun control policy useless).

[White Haven]

Option C, learn to bloody capitalize properly. God, that was painful to read.

[Stark]

How about option D choosing where to live based on one (stupid) issue like this is stupid. Some countries with guns all over are bad. Some countries with guns all over are good. UH OH.

[PeZook]

Well, not even America thinks it's a good idea to affix machine guns to CCTV cameras...so I don't see how chosing to live anywhere but Coltia based on this one thing is unreasonable

[Stofsk]

Coltia sounds like the kind of hypothetical dystopian society we saw in '80s and early '90s action films.

Peelium sounds like the place to be, by a mile. A good, long, country mile even.

[Alferd Packer]

Well, in either scenario, I'm going to be living in a major metropolitan area (why? Because.) , so I simply need to ask myself: do I want to live in a densely-populated area where guns are a major part of the culture? Absolutely not. I'll take my chances in Peelium; I can run away from someone brandishing a knife, screaming "There's a fire!" at the top of my lungs.

[Aaron MkII]

God don't turn this into another horseshit guncontrol thread.

My answer depends on several things; is there universal health care, what's the standard of living, how liberal is the country?

I own and love firearms but basing my decision on one thing is fucking stupid.