StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Huh, that 'can't refuse cash' is surprising.

Interestingly enough, some parts of the Canadian government are allowed to, and required to, refuse cash payments.

Broomstick wrote:For the most part, yes, it's illegal to refuse cash, either paper or coin, for a debt... with pennies being the possible exception. So nickles and up must be accepted.

I could see a particularly spiteful judge nailing her with contempt if she tried paying with nickels after being told cashier's check or money order.

I do believe the court system can find creative ways to punish people who find ways to be creative assholes when paying fines or damages.

I expect the real limiting factor there is that it's much more inconvenient to get that many nickels than it is for the person being paid to deposit them.

There is also a point were it'd cost the court more to punish someone for doing so, then the original debt/fine/whatever.

I know a couple people who have paid transit fines in 5 cent pieces. Most people here put them in a box or jar and forget them. It's amazing how quickly it adds up.

I had this delusion that nickels were going to be discontinued for exactly zero reason when I was a kid, so I hoarded them in coffee cans until I went to college, then turned in about $150 worth. The bank teller was surprisingly more amused than annoyed.

Raw Shark wrote:I had this delusion that nickels were going to be discontinued for exactly zero reason when I was a kid, so I hoarded them in coffee cans until I went to college, then turned in about $150 worth. The bank teller was surprisingly more amused than annoyed.

Banks are equipped to cope with that sort of thing, though. My parents had a huge bowl of pennies on the sideboard, and whenever it got full my mum would count them out into little plastic bags the banks give out for this very purpose so she could exchange them for the equivalent in notes and pound coins.

I believe banks here nowadays don't accept large amounts of loose coins unless they're in coin tubes. I may be wrong.

Enigma wrote:I believe banks here nowadays don't accept large amounts of loose coins unless they're in coin tubes. I may be wrong.

Individual banks will have individual policies. Depends on whether they have one of those money-counting machines where you can just dump the change in and it tots it up for you. Once I tried to cash a large quantity of loose change (I think it came out to around... $60) and the teller had to count it all out by hand on the counter. Another bank, we brought in a piggy bank and they just took it, went to a back room and came out with some cash.

I recall hearing that one guy in the SDN chat (man, that was long ago) had something like three pickle jars-- the two-gallon pickle jars, so we're talking big capacity here-- full of change when he was younger, loaded them up in his car and took them to the Coinstar machine. Got something like $500 out of that deal, even after the fee the machine charges for using it.

Enigma wrote:I believe banks here nowadays don't accept large amounts of loose coins unless they're in coin tubes. I may be wrong.

The bank I have a savings account at has an automatic coin-counting machine and they're happy to take loose change. Different banks have different rules on this.

Although the day I walked in with $46+ in pennies I think there was a general air of amazement that the little lady could lift that much copper and carry it in by herself.

Solauren wrote:Huh, that 'can't refuse cash' is surprising.

Interestingly enough, some parts of the Canadian government are allowed to, and required to, refuse cash payments.

Well, on our paper money, it explicitly says, "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." I would guess that's why government institutions have to accept paper money, with coinage being up to the discretion of the creditor.

Yeah but there's not enough room on coins to print all the stuff we see on bills. They're legal currency minted by the government in the same fashion as paper bills, so they need to be accepted whether a particular business likes it or not.

I have wondered before-- all those 'commemorative' coins they make for collectors and what not with like... pandas and Liberty and all that shit on them. Are they technically still legal tender, or are they just fancy bits of metal? I lean towards the latter. Like, frequently I see big colourful ads in this magazine or that, "Limited Time Offer!!! $20 Morgan Dollars!!!" or some such shit.

(Apologies for the detour but thought I'd throw the question out there while it was on my mind...)

Well a Morgan Dollar is still legal tender as it as produced by the government and used as coinage. But those commemorative coins are nothing more than bullion.

Borgholio wrote:Well a Morgan Dollar is still legal tender as it as produced by the government and used as coinage. But those commemorative coins are nothing more than bullion.

Depends. If they are made by the national mint, then they are - at least in most countries. But usually, their face value is so far below their metal and market value that you would be an idiot to use them that way.

LaCroix wrote:

Borgholio wrote:Well a Morgan Dollar is still legal tender as it as produced by the government and used as coinage. But those commemorative coins are nothing more than bullion.

Depends. If they are made by the national mint, then they are - at least in most countries. But usually, their face value is so far below their metal and market value that you would be an idiot to use them that way.

That's about what I thought. Take the Morgan dollar, its face value is $1, but in bullion it's worth around $15 from a quick Google (perhaps a little more than that). As an collector's item, older ones will vary depending on condition but the rare ones can be worth as much as $300ish with the average seeming to be between $20-30. New ones would probably be of little value as collector's items aside from bullion, and I imagine that's how it is with commemorative and reprint coins.

Anyway. Carry on folks!

But usually, their face value is so far below their metal and market value that you would be an idiot to use them that way.

Oh definitely. Like EA said, the silver value of a Morgan is 15 times the face value (or more). But you still COULD use it as a dollar coin if you really wanted to...

I buy US .999 silver dollars sometimes as a collector, and the brand new ones are marked as dollar coins but have easily $25 worth of pure silver in them.

Simon_Jester wrote:That... usually isn't the ignorant or irresponsible people who do that, at least not irresponsible in the sense of irresponsible in their daily lives.

The people who go into the financial sector and cause meltdowns are a higher class of sociopath,* and much more dangerous, because they're smart enough to cover their tracks, think things through, and avoid getting nailed on easily enforced laws against things like "refuses to pay workers" or "forgot to pay taxes." They invest in competent lawyers and accountants, and reserve their chiseling and disregard for consequences for the larger scale.

Again, this makes them a bigger threat. Unfortunately the courts are not well set up to deal with that.

*For a very vague definition of 'sociopath.'

A couple of those people did find themselves sued.

And... another check showed up!

At this rate it's going to take her a LONG time to pay off the penalties... which is fine by me, because interest continues to accrue and that's more for me in the end.

Looks like at this point in time I can also fulfill a little fantasy of mine, that is, to spend the money on fun stuff, metaphorical hookers and blow, rather than on household expenses.

Don't know if she managed to renegotiate her payment plan with the court, or she's just kicking some money that way to keep the authorities from going after to her. Not worth pursuing her more aggressively, but I'm pleasantly shocked to get another check in the mail.

to spend the money on fun stuff, metaphorical hookers and blow,

Why metaphorical?

Borgholio wrote:

to spend the money on fun stuff, metaphorical hookers and blow,

Why metaphorical?

Because Broomstick is a) married and b) sensible enough to spend an unexpected bounty on things that will provide longer-term enjoyment rather than transitory and possibly illegal pleasure?

A. Hookers can be shared with spouses
B. Blow can be resold at a markup thus starting a potentially lucrative drug empire. Think of it as a long term investment.

That doesn't address the "illegal" part, but whatever, that's a good answer

She can always blame the Pumpkin Harpy for putting her up to it.

"Yes Your Honour, I confess, but I had no choice! My vile ex-employer screwed up my wages o bad I had no choice but to become a major Illinois drug-dealer!