Joining the Navy

[Thirdfain]

So, I've discovered that there's not a whole lot of job prospects for History majors with 2.4 GPAs and experience working in Boy Scout summer camps in the current economic environment. Fortunately, there are a few organizations still hiring those with my credentials- specifically, the military arm of the US government. I've been in contact with a Navy recruiter for the last month or so; I just took my ASVAB and did pretty damn well, scoring 96 out of a 100. I've decided to go ahead with it; and I'm getting my physical next Tuesday.

Now, I've heard a lot from my recruiter about how great the Navy is going to be- air conditioned exercise facilities during basic, my choice of which vocation I follow, my choice of where I'm stationed. I'm prepared for the worst. I'm something of a patriot, and I don't mind if these things are, in fact, out of my hands. I'm certainly not in this for the fabulous benefits. I'd like to ask anyone with some real experience in these matters how it all plays out. Will I *really* get to choose where I'll go when I'm done with training? How much influence will I have on what career I follow in the Navy? How *does* the US military treat you?

I'd appreciate any information. I figure I can only trust the web sites and the recruiter so far on these matters.

[Kitsune]

Don't try for the nuclear program.......You tend to get kicked out of the program for many Bullshit reasons and can end up in the fleet as an undesignated seaman / fireman.

What do you want to do in the Navy, what can you see yourself doing and we will go from there.

[MKSheppard]

Kill the village people first.

[Thirdfain]

Don't try for the nuclear program.......You tend to get kicked out of the program for many Bullshit reasons and can end up in the fleet as an undesignated seaman / fireman.

What do you want to do in the Navy, what can you see yourself doing and we will go from there.

Well, funny you should say that- on my test, they said I'd be best either in the nuclear program, or in operations. I've got a little experience with logistics- I ran a commissary at a boy scout camp. However, I'm really very interested in the nuclear program. They said the pay would be better, and it seems to have more long term use than being a bureaucrat. What sort of bullshit reasons can get you kicked out of the nuclear program?

My main goal is to not spend 4 years swabbing decks. I'm an educated individual who can do better for myself and my country than that!

[Darth Mall]

Don't try for the nuclear program.......You tend to get kicked out of the program for many Bullshit reasons and can end up in the fleet as an undesignated seaman / fireman.

What do you want to do in the Navy, what can you see yourself doing and we will go from there.

Well, funny you should say that- on my test, they said I'd be best either in the nuclear program, or in operations. I've got a little experience with logistics- I ran a commissary at a boy scout camp. However, I'm really very interested in the nuclear program. They said the pay would be better, and it seems to have more long term use than being a bureaucrat. What sort of bullshit reasons can get you kicked out of the nuclear program?

My main goal is to not spend 4 years swabbing decks. I'm an educated individual who can do better for myself and my country than that!

One of my roommates was in the navy program. According to him if you drop out of it you end up doing 6 years swabbing decks instead of the usual 4.

[Raxmei]

They didn't say anything about becoming an officer? If this were the Army you should be able to qualify for OCS.

[Mr Bean]

They are bullshiting you about the Nuke program. However don't think for a second the Nuke program is easy to get through. It's a year and a half of schooling. Those that fail out after the first couple of months are refered to as "Nuke wastes" because the schools are very expensive to run and sending you to those schools is also... very expensive. Yes if you fail out in the first month or so you will likely end up as an un designated Deck Seaman which is the shit of all possible shit Navy jobs. However if you are good enough to last a few months likely you would be offered the chance to transfer to another rating. My first CPO once I was out of school was a "Nuke waste" who had a fulll year of school before failing a test three times and being kicked out of the program before becoming a CT.

Word to the wise, Nukes and CT's and a dozen other rates require clearances. Except lots of digging into your background, little things like having a non-native parent can disqualify you. Do not lie, do not hedge, you must tell them everything they ask you and they will ask you much.

As for the Navy itself I'll leave off the full wonderful explination of how totally fucking Awesome it is and say simply that the Navy is 100% telling you the truth when it says that whatever you sign up for is what your going to be doing. If you sign up to be a Nuke they will not change their mind halfway through Bootcamp and make you an Aircraft Mechanic instead. What you sign up for in meps is what you get once your out of bootcamp.

Also March is a very good time to go because it means you get to run Battlestations in Summer. Running Battlestations in winter... oh that is shitty.

Someone else can address officer issues.

[Coyote]

If you can't get nuclear, or feel like it might be a dicey situation, go for something else that can be marketable, like avionics. Or helicopter repair, etc. You'll be valued on a ship (see the world, etc) and it's marketable on the outside. And if you like the Navy, get out and use the GI Bill, go to uni ROTC and come back as an officer and then make a play for something.

[Kitsune]

Well, funny you should say that- on my test, they said I'd be best either in the nuclear program, or in operations. I've got a little experience with logistics- I ran a commissary at a boy scout camp. However, I'm really very interested in the nuclear program. They said the pay would be better, and it seems to have more long term use than being a bureaucrat. What sort of bullshit reasons can get you kicked out of the nuclear program?

My main goal is to not spend 4 years swabbing decks. I'm an educated individual who can do better for myself and my country than that!

I was kicked out of "A" School in my last week or the Nuclear ET Program. It was not due to grades either but due to what was basically a personality conflict. I ended up in the fleet as an undesignated seaman. Now, they may have now combined regular rate training with nuke training which may mean that if something happens then you at least stay that rate. I would see if you could find someone who has been through nuke training in the last five years or so to find out

Normal Electronics Technician might be a choice or Aviation Electronics Technician
Operations is not what it means in civilian life.....Radar Operators (Called Operational Specialist) and Fire Control Technician are both part of Operations and are pretty advanced. There are some new radar systems on the horizon which might be great fun to play with.

Radioman and Quartermaster are also part of operation but I don't think those would be of your interest. Quartermaster in the Navy means a Navigator. Edit: There are also in Operations the rate of Signalman who operate the flags and flashing lights for communication. Forgot about them.

[CmdrWilkens]

I can't speak directly to the Navy but just in general if you have a college degree then there should be an Officer Program available for you. You would need to speak to the Officer Recruitment Officer who is very different from the local recruitment guys. If you do stick with enlisted CHECK YOUR ENLISTMENT PAPERS. I cannot stress this enough. Do not sign unless you understand what you are signing off on, those papers will include every single promise that will actually be fulfilled. If those papers indicate you start as an E-2 or E-3 then you start as an E-2 or E-3 but if those same papers say that you will be assigned to a billet and station at the convenience of the service then you are fucked. In other words make sure that every promise a recruiter makes is listed somewhere on your recruitment paperwork.

If you go officer then I can't help ya on how that process goes but I would assume the same caveat applies: don't sign until it includes everything you were promised.

[Tsyroc]

Well, funny you should say that- on my test, they said I'd be best either in the nuclear program, or in operations. I've got a little experience with logistics- I ran a commissary at a boy scout camp. However, I'm really very interested in the nuclear program. They said the pay would be better, and it seems to have more long term use than being a bureaucrat. What sort of bullshit reasons can get you kicked out of the nuclear program?

My main goal is to not spend 4 years swabbing decks. I'm an educated individual who can do better for myself and my country than that!

Ender was a nuke.

I went to nuke school and got academically dropped. It was determined that I put in a fair amount of effort and had just bitten off more than I could chew so I was allowed to go to another school. I then became an Electronic Warfare Technician, which in the current rating classification is a CTT (Cryptological Technician: Technical branch, or something like that). Essentially the same job just with a dumb ass looking rating symbol instead of the cool lightning bolt splitting an atom rating symbol that it used to have. Most of my class didn't make it all the way through nuke school. A few of the drops got sent directly to the fleet as undesignated firemen. Several other guys got re-classed as sonar techs and ended up on submarines, which also included a trip to sub school.

If you only want to put in 4 years that's going to rule out the nuke program and a lot of the technical rates. All of those tend to require a longer commitment because you spend so much time in school. There are some decent jobs in Operations that you can probably get into for 4 years and see if you like it enough to continue past that.

Just remember, CDC/CIC is air conditioned like crazy because of all the electronics. Engineering, and reactor spaces tend to be kind of hot. You also do not want to go in as a member of Deck department unless you want to get the full Naval experience. Like all the shit jobs to the Nth degree, but if you stay in long enough you might get to drive the ship. Supply department can be good and it can suck giant ass donkey balls. As the new guy the odds are your jobs will suck donkey balls so don't let anyone scam you into thinking that being an MS is all great.


I'm rather dubious about the description of the training facilities that your recruiter gave you. Sure, the barracks is probably air-conditioned and you will likely get worked out in there sometimes but you'll also be outside a lot. The boot camp I went to no longer exists so one of the newbies will have to tell you what Great Lakes is like. I wouldn't recommend going to boot during the winter though.
==

Normally, since you have a degree I would be suggesting you look into officer programs but the last I read the Navy had a surplus of officers and was having trouble finding places for the ones they already have in the pipeline. If you aren't set on the Navy the Army likely has a need for new officers.

==

FYI: If you go enlisted Navy you will get plenty of experience stripping, swabbing and waxing the decks, plus painting, priming, grinding, needle gunning and all other sorts of up keep. The odds are pretty good that when you first get to your first ship that you'll spend 6 months or so working in the galley. Also as a junior guy there are working parties for replenishment (both underway and in port), line handling and all sorts of good stuff. You get to do all of this stuff a lot more if you end up out in the fleet without a rating.


In case any nukes are wondering: 8841EM

[Shroom Man 777]

Ask Loinstar, he loves the navy.

Oh, and Setzer too. I remember him telling me that he was involved in the electronics of E-2 Hawkeyes. He has a cushy job, so he'd be a good person to ask about these kinds of things!

[Havok]

Go into the Marines and kill stuff.

If you have a degree though, you should certainly be going for officer.

[Sea Skimmer]

Go into the Marines and kill stuff.

If you have a degree though, you should certainly be going for officer.

If you join the navy medical service, then you can go help out with the marines killing stuff, without the full scale marine corps brainwashing.

[MaiWaifu]

In the Army a person with a college degree can either go for OCS (Officer Candidate School) or go enlisted as an E-4, I'm pretty sure it is the same for the Navy.

[Beowulf]

So, I've discovered that there's not a whole lot of job prospects for History majors with 2.4 GPAs and experience working in Boy Scout summer camps in the current economic environment. Fortunately, there are a few organizations still hiring those with my credentials- specifically, the military arm of the US government. I've been in contact with a Navy recruiter for the last month or so; I just took my ASVAB and did pretty damn well, scoring 96 out of a 100. I've decided to go ahead with it; and I'm getting my physical next Tuesday.

Now, I've heard a lot from my recruiter about how great the Navy is going to be- air conditioned exercise facilities during basic, my choice of which vocation I follow, my choice of where I'm stationed. I'm prepared for the worst. I'm something of a patriot, and I don't mind if these things are, in fact, out of my hands. I'm certainly not in this for the fabulous benefits. I'd like to ask anyone with some real experience in these matters how it all plays out. Will I *really* get to choose where I'll go when I'm done with training? How much influence will I have on what career I follow in the Navy? How *does* the US military treat you?

I'd appreciate any information. I figure I can only trust the web sites and the recruiter so far on these matters.

Join the Chair Force. See the inside of a cube. Deal with bullshit from all around...

I'm not doing a very good job of selling the USAF, am I...

Benefits:

• Short basic (9 weeks IIRC now)
• Tech schools are all in sunny places
• You may in fact be eligible to be an officer (see a officer recruiter)

Oh, and ASVABs are out of 99. As for where you'd go, you end up choose 10 or so bases, and they give you one of those. You're pretty much garunteed the job you put on contract unless you fail out. Don't be so stupid as to not put a job on. You'll be a cop.

[Ender]

real life has exploded of late, so I can't post much. Kick me a PM or E-mail and I'll give you a run down on how the nuclear pipeline works. I can also give a good summary of what the day to day nuke work is like. Two things that really determine your happiness with the military are your rate and your command. Choose your rate, choose your fate.

And no, Great Lakes is not an air conditioned dream land. You are living in the Chicagoland area, with the climate that entails. That said, I liked it just fine, but I'm from the area. I got sufficient sleep, plenty to eat, and lots of exercise. No complaints there, just keep your mouth shut and do exactly as you are told and you will do fine. You do get to choose the rate that you train for, though whether you make it through the training program is on you. As to your command, you get to put in for a preference based on opening for your rate, but those preferences don't carry a great deal of weight compared to the needs of the navy.

Though with your background and score, I'd almost recommend going for one of the translator rates. Ask Publius about that.

Keep in mind that if you go nuke, I reserve the right to call my buddies and have them hassle you extra.

[Kanastrous]

A friend who served as a machinist's mate on USS Silversides, SSN 679 tells me that nuclear specialists are traditionally nicknamed "spaz." True or false?

[Ender]

A friend who served as a machinist's mate on USS Silversides, SSN 679 tells me that nuclear specialists are traditionally nicknamed "spaz." True or false?

False, "Zoomies" or just "Nukes" is more common, zoomies being a reference to neutrons "zooming" about to power the ship (as most non nukes understand it)

[Stargate Nerd]

I have a question about joining the Army as an officer. My cousin's husband, who is the army, keeps suggesting to my currently unemployed sister, who graduated with a Finance degree last May, to enlist as an officer. I don't think my sister would go for it in any case, but my parents and I are scared shitless anyway of her being shipped to Iraq right away. So would that be a likely outcome if my sister went ahead and "became" an officer with the US Army?

And also the same guy says that an officer with the Army earns around $5,000 a month? I kind of doubt that. So is he making that up?

[CmdrWilkens]

I have a question about joining the Army as an officer. My cousin's husband, who is the army, keeps suggesting to my currently unemployed sister, who graduated with a Finance degree last May, to enlist as an officer. I don't think my sister would go for it in any case, but my parents and I are scared shitless anyway of her being shipped to Iraq right away. So would that be a likely outcome if my sister went ahead and "became" an officer with the US Army?

And also the same guy says that an officer with the Army earns around $5,000 a month? I kind of doubt that. So is he making that up?

-Chance of getting shipped to Iraq? Almost certain regardless of what specialty you go for (officer or enlisted) if you sign up for the Marines or Army.

- Pay is pretty easy to figure, its comprised of a couple different elements.

1) Basic Pay (this is your actual "salary")
Base Pay starting Jan 2008
2009 Chart, warning this is a Word Document

An O-1 with less than 2 years in service (a boot officer) earns 2,655.30 a month. After 18 months unless you fuck up you will get promoted to O-2 and 3058.80 and 6 months after that you go up to $3483.90. Since anyone can do that (assuming they make officer) I'm going to base all other numbers off an O-2 with 2 years.

2) Basic Allowance for Housing, if you live "off base" you get this money TAX FREE to pay for housing.

- The seoncd link above contains the BAH pay chart as well. For an )-2 without dependents this is another $717/month [since its tax free this is roughly the equivalent to regulat income of abour $1100]. If you do have a spouse or children this rises to $916.20/month

3) Basic Allowance for Subsitence (this pays for food, whether purchased at base mess halls or commercially)

- Again the second link contains this but an officer gets $223/month which, like BAH, is provided TAX FREE.

4) Special Pay, depending upon job function you get extra money. The big ones are:

- Hazardous Duty $150/mo for any duty station designated as hazardous
- Imminent Danger $225/mo basically if you are in a combat zone (this is in lieu of hazardous duty pay)
- Family Seperation Allowance: $250/mo if you leave your dependents behind.
- Aviation/Medical/Submarine/Para-/Dive- pay, varies but is a bonus for those fields

5) Retention or sign up bonuses, if you go into a high need (or stay in a high need) field then there is often a cash bonus paid out 50/50.


------------


So if we add that together at a minimum you would be looking at $3483.9/mo taxable income and $940/mo in non-taxable income [roughly the equivalent to $1410/mo]. Your equivalent income level as an O-2 with 2 years and no wife or kids would thus be about $4893.90/mo which means $5k/month isn't all that far off the mark.

[Wicked Pilot]

To your questions:

Will I *really* get to choose where I'll go when I'm done with training?

They'll always try to place you where you want to go first, but in all cases the needs of the service trump all.

How much influence will I have on what career I follow in the Navy?

Pretty much the same answer as above.

How *does* the US military treat you?

Depends on your service, unit, rank, mood of your boss, etc.


My question to you, what job exactly would you want to do in your new career? Or even what type of job? Do you want to be gung ho and eat shit for a living, are you looking for a more corporate 9-5 type, or do you want to live on a boat? And have you considered the officer corps? If you've already got a college degree you should strongly consider it. If not you're just throwing away money and career opportunity.

[Mr Bean]

Note don't expect 9-5 in the Nuke lane. Except 12 hour shifts that start at 2 in the morning or other random times.

Also if you speak a foreign language we can use the CTI's it's a very good rate and you won't be swabing decks if you can speak Farsi or even learn it. They need good CTI's so bad right now it's not even funny.

[Kanastrous]

Where can you find pleasure
Search the world for treasure
Learn science technology
Where can you begin to make your dreams all come true
On the land or on the sea
Where can you learn to fly
Play in sports and skin dive
Study oceanography
Sign up for the big band
Or sit in the grandstand
When your team and others meet

In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease
In the navy
Come on now, people, make a stand
In the navy, in the navy
Can't you see we need a hand
In the navy
Come on, protect the motherland
In the navy
Come on and join your fellow man
In the navy
Come on people, and make a stand
In the navy, in the navy, in the navy (in the navy)

They want you, they want you
They want you as a new recruit

If you like adventure
Don't you wait to enter
The recruiting office fast
Don't you hesitate
There is no need to wait
They're signing up new seamen fast
Maybe you are too young
To join up today
Bout don't you worry 'bout a thing
For I'm sure there will be
Always a good navy
Protecting the land and sea

In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease
In the navy
Come on now, people, make a stand
In the navy, in the navy
Can't you see we need a hand
In the navy
Come on, protect the motherland
In the navy
Come on and join your fellow man
In the navy
Come on people, and make a stand
In the navy, in the navy, in the navy (in the navy)

They want you, they want you
They want you as a new recruit

Who me?

They want you, they want you
They want you as a new recruit

But, but but I'm afraid of water.
Hey, hey look
Man, I get seasick even watchin' it on TV!

They want you, they want you in the navy

Oh my goodness.
What am I gonna do in a submarine?

They want you, they want you in the navy

- The Village People

[Alex Moon]

I have a question about joining the Army as an officer. My cousin's husband, who is the army, keeps suggesting to my currently unemployed sister, who graduated with a Finance degree last May, to enlist as an officer. I don't think my sister would go for it in any case, but my parents and I are scared shitless anyway of her being shipped to Iraq right away. So would that be a likely outcome if my sister went ahead and "became" an officer with the US Army?

And also the same guy says that an officer with the Army earns around $5,000 a month? I kind of doubt that. So is he making that up?

He's not. I earn about $4300 a month right now as a First Lieutenant with 2 years experience.

If your sister chooses to join, she'll spend about 8-9 months minimum in training. She'll have to attend 10 weeks of Basic Training (likely at Ft Jackson), then Officer Candidate School at Ft Benning for another 12 weeks. After that she'll attend a 6-week BOLC II (pronounced 'Bol-ic') course at either Ft Benning or Ft Sill. Then she'll attend her Officer Basic Course, which is where she will learn her branch. This course varies between 9-20 weeks in length.

First thing is that unlike enlisted, she won't choose her job. Officers list their branch preferences and the army tries to slot you to one of your first three, but it's needs of the army. You can swap branches, however, if you find someone to trade with. She's finance, so she would likely be branched Adjutant General, which handles personnel and staffing (there is a Finance branch, but it is being moved into AG and few officers get branched Finance any more). However, there is no guarantee that she wouldn't be branched Transportation or Signal or some other job. She wouldn't be branched Combat Arms, since those are limited to males.

Also, she needs to understand that officers are managers and special project guys. As such, while we have training in a specific area, we are expected to be generalist who can lead any unit or shop we are put in charge of. I know an ordinance LT who led an infantry platoon in Kosovo for six months.

Traditionally, Lieutenants work either as platoon leaders, or as lower level staff officers and assistant staff. If she branched AG, for example, she would likely be put as an assistant S-1, helping a captain run a battalion personnel shop. A lieutenent will also do time as a company executive officer, assiting the commander and performing staff functions for the company. This is traditionally the precursor to promotion to captain and movement to company command or a full staff position.

In general, an officer can expect to spend half their time or more in staff positions. That is the bread and butter of what we do: planning, resourcing and overseeing operations. If an officer is kicking in doors and pulling the trigger all the time, the are probably not doing their job.