[Discussion] Warsie, Testing, + Fallout

[CmdrWilkens]

Ban poll is up.

[Coyote]

Another comment in my PM box; two in as many minutes.

I wasnt around for that testing thing, but I have heard what happened, and from the looks of it, it was some serious shit. I also see that you are holding a vote on whether banning him or not. I have never chimed into the Senate, but I do want to point out one thing.

This retard has been apologizing left and right, but he doesnt want to get banned and is basically asking to stay on the board. To me, that sends a clear message that he isnt taking this seriously (as some people have said in the revelant threads, some of the board members may get in some serious trouble with the FBI, no laughing matter) not only does his attempts to stay on the board tell me that he isnt really taking this seriously, but it seems to say that he thinks people will one day look back on this and laugh. Now, I am not a big member on this board, or well known or anything, but I am pretty sure that no one is going to be laughing about this. Basically, his attempts to not get banned and the fact that he hasnt left by his own will tell me that he isnt taking this shit seriously.

Thats just what I think.

I also sincerely hope no one gets in trouble for this shit.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

It's simply not acceptable that we let this slide--by which I mean that we just ban him. It's to serious of an offence, to much of a reason to bring suspicion on the entire board. I strongly recommend, Mike, that you alert the appropriate authorities in the United States to what happened here and provide them with all the evidence necessary to make a determination on whether or not to press charges against this fuck, and the sooner it's done, the better.

[Ender]

It's not our right nor place, IMO, to make a determination about whether or not he committed a crime.

Nonsense. Linking to an FBI site is clearly not a crime. Linking to kiddie porn clearly is. This isn't something where there is sufficient gray area to warrant a lawyer to sort it out.

You're saying "Intentionally fucking up someone's life" here--that would only take place if he had committed a crime. If he has committed a crime and you refuse to report it, you are yourself committing a crime and this post by itself could be cause for charges to be pressed against you by the government, I hope you realize.

No, it isn't. But I enjoy the empty scare tactics and hyperbole, even if it is a bit pathetic.

The only sane thing for us to do is report it to the appropriate authorities, and basically let the FBI make a determination on whether or not charges should be pressed. We have no right or duty to take that decision into our own hands, and it would in fact be illegal for us to do so.
I strongly recommend the appropriate material be turned over to them immediately without further delay, and I can't understand why anyone would oppose that measure--if you think a crime may have been committed, you report everything you know, and let the authorities make a determination on whether or not to pursue the individual in question. Why shouldn't you?

Because if he just linked to a government site, then there was no crime committed, irregardless of what the intention was. Go to the tiny URL link and click preview - he linked to the FBI site. That is not a criminal offense.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Because if he just linked to a government site, then there was no crime committed, irregardless of what the intention was. Go to the tiny URL link and click preview - he linked to the FBI site. That is not a criminal offense.

Yes, but as I understand, the link triggers an autosearch on the FBI's website for kiddie porn; and under current United States law, the mere act of searching for kiddie porn on the internet is a crime.

[Ender]

Because if he just linked to a government site, then there was no crime committed, irregardless of what the intention was. Go to the tiny URL link and click preview - he linked to the FBI site. That is not a criminal offense.

Yes, but as I understand, the link triggers an autosearch on the FBI's website for kiddie porn; and under current United States law, the mere act of searching for kiddie porn on the internet is a crime.

Source for that?

[Noble Ire]

I was not personally involved with this incident, and before I cast my vote, I would like to know, definitively, if Warsie actually committed a crime, violations of good taste aside.

[Coyote]

If a person wants child porn, and they're dumb enough to enter it into a search engine like Google, it takes them immediately to an FBI site that takes notice of your proclivities and, I believe, has some way of recording your visit and taking note of your IP, etc.

He put that in a link that he described as "SFW" (Safe For Work).

[The Duchess of Zeon]

If a person wants child porn, and they're dumb enough to enter it into a search engine like Google, it takes them immediately to an FBI site that takes notice of your proclivities and, I believe, has some way of recording your visit and taking note of your IP, etc.

He put that in a link that he described as "SFW" (Safe For Work).

I was also under that impression, though unlike you I'm lucky enough to never click on such things and am not now currently facing getting fired and facing a federal government investigation. I'd rather not have this board shut down, at that.

[CmdrWilkens]

For the record here is the criminal statute:

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 110--SEXUAL EXPLOITATION AND OTHER ABUSE OF CHILDREN

Sec. 2252A. Certain activities relating to material constituting
or containing child pornography
(a) Any person who--
(1) knowingly mails, or transports or ships in interstate or
foreign commerce by any means, including by computer, any child
pornography;
(2) knowingly receives or distributes--
(A) any child pornography that has been mailed, or shipped
or transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means,
including by computer; or
(B) any material that contains child pornography that has
been mailed, or shipped or transported in interstate or foreign
commerce by any means, including by computer;

(3) knowingly--
(A) reproduces any child pornography for distribution
through the mails, or in interstate or foreign commerce by any
means, including by computer; or
(B) advertises, promotes, presents, distributes, or solicits
through the mails, or in interstate or foreign commerce by any
means, including by computer, any material or purported material
in a manner that reflects the belief, or that is intended to
cause another to believe, that the material or purported
material is, or contains--
(i) an obscene visual depiction of a minor engaging in
sexually explicit conduct; or
(ii) a visual depiction of an actual minor engaging in
sexually explicit conduct;

Now since he did not promote this as child pornography and, in fact was intentionally misleading, and did not contain ACTUAL child pornography I think we can reasonably say there was no criminal conduct. Now it was certianly conduct in about the poorest of taste one could find. Moreover it certainly is conduct which is designed to place other members of this board in compromising positions in real life and THAT is intolerable to me.

Now section 13032 which realtes to required reporting is only triggered when there is a suspected violation of the above code (or any of the related sexual eploitation of minors parts of the federal code). Given that I have not seen evidence presented that would indicate that he did in fact show folks child pron I would say that we would not have a duty to report.

[Surlethe]

Actually, (3)(B) says that soliciting by computer child pornography is illegal. Seems to me that searching for kiddie porn is explicitly soliciting the shit.

[CmdrWilkens]

Actually, (3)(B) says that soliciting by computer child pornography is illegal. Seems to me that searching for kiddie porn is explicitly soliciting the shit.

Quoting wikipedia for speed but they get the right gist:

In the United States, solicitation is a crime; it is an inchoate offense that consists of a person offering money or something else of value in order to incite or induce another to commit a crime with the specific intent that the person solicited commit the crime.

Soliciting always requires intent and usually requires money. Otherwise, to be blunt, a prostitute would just be a slut.

[Surlethe]

Ah, I see. I was thinking of the informal use of 'solicit' - i.e., to ask for. Or maybe I just don't know the definition as well as I thought.

[Coyote]

An interesting notion brought up, if anyone does, in fact, get in trouble...

Maybe we can offer Warsie a deal. He can stay on the board, although temp banned, or titled or something, if he can present concrete proof that he has turned himself in to the FBI for this prank and accepted full responsibility for it.

I don't know if that would help any board members avoid legal trouble, but if it would, would that be worth a try?

I am not sure if there would be any legal standing if a person was investigated and Warsie stepped up and explained... or if he even would, really.

[Ender]

I have a hard time imagining that "random guy saying different" will change the opinion of anyone else. Further, I figure that the most likely source of trouble will be from work rather then the FBI, and "hey I was surfing a scifi forum at work" isn't exactly going to help you keep your job.

[Coyote]

My boss knows I surf, as long as my work is done and I'm not blowing off responsibilities --and, of course, don't go to sites for porn, gaming, dating, or chatrooms, of course-- they don't mind. My job has very distinct "busy & bust cycles" through the day, so there are times when I have little to do, temporarily.

Obviously, my powers-that-be does not have to allow me this. They are very laid-back and open-minded, and I appreciate the unusual leeway. But with that trust comes responsibility on my part, of course, and getting tricked into something stupid, especially if it risks more than just my convenience but possible charges, goes beyond the pale.

[K. A. Pital]

Just eradicate the infection.

I see absolutely no reason to show any mercy here. If he's that dumb, we don't need the walking "idiot bomb" around this forum.

As for reporting him, others are to weigh in on the matter; I'm not an expert at American laws.

However, re-instating him or anything else than a permanent ban here is not acceptable in my view; no matter if he "repents", "excuses" himself or even reports himself to the FBI for the stunt.

[Edi]

The fucktard needs to be banned immediately. While Warsie's actions may not have been a crime in the strictest sense and even that is debatable depending on the jurisdiction you're in, it is irrelevant.

Schools and employers are not bound by law to observe maximum leniency, they can set whatever policies they like for things like this and can terminate job contracts or expel people who violate those policies, no matter how inadvertently. Given how great a following zero tolerance without any possibility of individual case by case judgment has these days, this sort of "pranks" are completely unacceptable.

Moreover, from the tone of the "apologies" it is clear that the only thing the little shitstain is sorry for is getting his own ass in trouble with the rest of us, not for what he actually did. And finally, this is far from the first time he has acted like a complete fuckwit. I'd have heartily approved getting rid of him for far less than this.

[Ender]

Moreover, from the tone of the "apologies" it is clear that the only thing the little shitstain is sorry for is getting his own ass in trouble with the rest of us, not for what he actually did.

You know, that's a good point. The overriding theme of his "apologies" has been "don't punish me", not "I'm sorry for what I did"

We have 30 ban votes. Is that sufficient for a majority yet?

[phongn]

There are 53 active Senators; we need 32 positive votes for a ban.

[Knife]

There are 53 active Senators; we need 32 positive votes for a ban.

And you have them now.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Really, the sooner this piece of subhuman scum is off the board, the better, so if an Admin feels like preempting the formalities of the ban poll, I'd be dearly appreciative.

[Chris OFarrell]

I missed this until this thread, it was only through Phongs ss that I was able to see what was going on.

BAN him. You DON'T joke about this.

[fgalkin]

Another voice from the people:

I don't know about necessarily reporting the dumbass to the FBI, but I see no reason whatsoever to not report him to his ISP, minimum. This kind of idiocy could get more people in hot water than just the unfortunate individuals that clicked the link. It could land Mike in a lot of hot water, and he certainly doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. I'm honestly surprised he wasn't kicked out the door immediately. I'd appreciate if my comments were posted in the relevant Senate thread.

Thanks for your time and have a good day.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Patrick Degan]

Good riddance to the little cumscum.