I was asked to bring this to the attention of the senate:
A member of the board wrote:I'm goddamn tired of these absurd peak oil threads predicting OH MY GOD WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!, which end up with people proposing even more outlandish and ridiculous solutions for a non-problem.
Wow, so you're actually giving some fuckhead who thinks that it would be a good idea to complain to the Senate about something that is scientific fact the time of day? Come on, Fima. None of these scared little brats have been able to provide a single shred of evidence to counter the reams of data and articles that have been put up regarding Peak Oil. So now they're going to try and have them shut down administratively? What kind of dishonest, useless sort of whiner even dares think of such a thing here?
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
I suppose that's a reasonable enough response, but it would really stick in my craw to see a hiatus actually declared for something that wasn't merely a political or a novel debate, but an actual scientific subject with objective, factual information available which supports an established and recognized conclusion.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
Let's see... as one of the "guilty parties" in the proliferation of PO threads...
My first response is that if you don't want to read/be involved in such threads don't click on them.
I also agree with Marina that this is a real, non-trival problem. It is not only scientific but also social and cultural and it will, sooner or later (and probably sooner) affect all of us. It does not seem reasonable to eliminate debate on such a subject.
That said - we might need to moderate such threads a little more closely, or to prepare a sticky with key points everyone should know before entering into the debate.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
If someone could/would write up a list of the Key Points involved in Peak Oil, a sticky could be made in N&P and/or SLAM, and all discussion could be removed to a thread (or series of threads) in SLAM.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
There's certainly precedent for making a sticky with the rebuttals to basic misconceptions. If someone wants to write up a basic rundown in SLAM, I can sticky it.
That being said, we don't need a multitude of threads for one problem simultaneously. At very least keeping them in one of the forums would be useful, and I'm inclined to think SLAM is the logical place(Albeit as events happen that relate to it, obviously those stories go in N&P.).
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Do they have to go in N&P as the news covers something new to terrify us with?
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
A summary sticky is a good idea; however when it all comes down to it, people should not read threads if they don't like them. The arena here is designed for confrontation, not comfort.
If they think the Doomsday scenarios are overblown, they are invited to poke holes in it, or simply counter Worst Case scenarios with other probable outcomes they think more likely.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around! If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!! Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
I'm tired of people coming up with ridiculous strawmen like "OH MY GOD WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!11ONEELEVENTYONE!1!" Nobody has ever seriously claimed that or anything remotely similar, and yet deniers take potshots from the peanut gallery to shout out against it and don't provide anything of substance. The only really meaty argument against the economic effects of peak oil that I've seen was provided by Sikon, and he was only contesting some details of the land export model, not claiming we weren't going to fall on economic hard times.
This isn't Venting, anyway, so I'll cut off there. A sticky would be a good idea; in fact, I'll go ahead and make one in SLAM now. And, of course, I agree with the general consensus that there's no reason to cut off debate (read: the search for the truth) on peak oil. The threads have been productive, if anyone honestly thinks the issue is a trivial non-problem then cutting off debate is going to cut off their chance to air their opinion in the firey proving grounds, and it's nowhere near the virulence of IvP or the worthlessness of Gor (or whatever that series is called).
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
In that case, somone might want to move the thread I started in OT to SLAM. (I'd do it, but I can't)
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Aaaand created. May I request a sticky from any mod who would deign to do it?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
I think half of what is being contested is not merely that people are making Peak Oil threads and having such debates, but their (perceived) tendency to turn into one up contests on which poster can propose the most extreme and radical regimen to counteracting it or shouting "NO NO NO!" at anyone who proposes that anything might mitigate such future events.
However, I don't know what our Anonymous Post above is actually asking for. A Peak Oil moratorium? That would be the only thing the Senate could do and that's a big "as if". Just because it makes people uncomfortable or pissed off or if they don't believe in it isn't a reason to ban discussion of a topic. It's not like their has been fighting, even if the topic (occasionally) gets somewhat masturbatory.
I would suggest if the Anonymous Poster is tired of Peak Oil threads, he shouldn't click on them. I'm sure he is "goddamn tired" of them; it's depressing shit. However, I don't see how that's the concern of the Senate.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
