[Discussion] Next Coliseum Match!
Moderator: CmdrWilkens
[Discussion] Next Coliseum Match!
Fellow Senators, let's throw out some ideas for the next Coliseum match topic and possible contestants!
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
- Patrick Degan
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Well, we can always invite new chewtoy MichaelFerrari1 to treat us to an exhibition of his incomparable wisdom.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
- RedImperator
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I'd rather see two competent people debating a subject in which there's genuine room for rational people to disagree. One-sided ass-whoopings are fun, but I'd like to actually learn something from a featured debate.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
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I agree with RedImperator. Candidate topics for future matches should, I think, be generally complicated and difficult to form a consensus on; for example, health care, or the speed of Iraq withdrawal, or privacy issues. The grey in the issues makes for much more interesting debates. More specifically, I seem to recall Broomstick and MoO going at it once or twice with respect to health care; would either of them be interested in rehashing the issue for good?A peon wrote:Maybe a debate on fully state funded medicare or a hybrid public/private system? I can't name any specific names since I only browse through that topic with limited interest but I'm somewhat sure there were some good debaters on both sides.
There's probably a lot of evidence for both ways so it should avoid being like the last debate where one was known without a doubt to be wrong from the start.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
- The Duchess of Zeon
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Hybrid public/private systems are the norm in most of the world--the doctors and hospitals and so on are independent contractors of the health agency, rather than employees, for the most part.Surlethe wrote:I agree with RedImperator. Candidate topics for future matches should, I think, be generally complicated and difficult to form a consensus on; for example, health care, or the speed of Iraq withdrawal, or privacy issues. The grey in the issues makes for much more interesting debates. More specifically, I seem to recall Broomstick and MoO going at it once or twice with respect to health care; would either of them be interested in rehashing the issue for good?A peon wrote:Maybe a debate on fully state funded medicare or a hybrid public/private system? I can't name any specific names since I only browse through that topic with limited interest but I'm somewhat sure there were some good debaters on both sides.
There's probably a lot of evidence for both ways so it should avoid being like the last debate where one was known without a doubt to be wrong from the start.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
- Broomstick
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Um.. not really. It was one thing to debate the issue when my family and I had coverage and it was in many ways an academic question. Now, with no health insurance at all, I don't think I can retain the objectivity required to debate effectively since it a real and pressing matter for me and I do get quite worked up about it.Surlethe wrote:I seem to recall Broomstick and MoO going at it once or twice with respect to health care; would either of them be interested in rehashing the issue for good?
Ask me again when I have coverage, I don't have to beg for my husband's medication prices to be reduced, and we can afford to get the blood testing the is now 2 months overdue in getting done.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
- K. A. Pital
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I'm open for Coliseum proposals. I have time on hands to debate until July. if anyone wants to debate me, feel free to propose the topic.
Healthcare debate could work. I recall quite a few people disagreeing with my utilitarian principle that basic healthcare for more people is better than advanced healthcare for rare and lethal diseases, but which few can actually afford.
Healthcare debate could work. I recall quite a few people disagreeing with my utilitarian principle that basic healthcare for more people is better than advanced healthcare for rare and lethal diseases, but which few can actually afford.
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- RedImperator
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I like this idea because it encapsulates a lot of the issues surrounding health care, both practical and ethical.Stas Bush wrote:I'm open for Coliseum proposals. I have time on hands to debate until July. if anyone wants to debate me, feel free to propose the topic.
Healthcare debate could work. I recall quite a few people disagreeing with my utilitarian principle that basic healthcare for more people is better than advanced healthcare for rare and lethal diseases, but which few can actually afford.
Another idea I had was that we find someone who's really really good on one particular topic, and have him argue the other side. This would have to be limited to topics where there's a viable other side, of course--no asking Mike to take the rabid Trekkie position in SW v. ST, for example--but it could be a lot of fun to see with the right argument. It could be a valuable lesson, too, for people who think being on the right side of an argument is all it takes to win a debate.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
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- K. A. Pital
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Some proletarian masses have also told me they'd want to see "a match between CC and Stuart on ABMs. CC disputes what an expert, Stuart, says about ABMs, Nukes, and Missiles/Bombers. This would be a good technical debate and a famous thread when done".
Personally this is a technical issue, but anti-ballistic missile debates propped up here and there, so perhaps it's indeed a topic popular enough to warrant attention.
Personally this is a technical issue, but anti-ballistic missile debates propped up here and there, so perhaps it's indeed a topic popular enough to warrant attention.
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Usually, in any health-care debate, socialized health-care advocates spend half of the time dispelling bullshit lies and misconceptions about how socialized health-care actually works. If the other participant didn't believe in all of those misconceptions, it would be easier, but then the debate would also be missing the rebuttals of all those widespread misconceptions.
As for contentious topics, one could always suspend the IvP moratorium for a single knock-down drag-out debate on the subject between two advocates.
As for contentious topics, one could always suspend the IvP moratorium for a single knock-down drag-out debate on the subject between two advocates.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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We could also just put up a list of all sorts of controversial issues and let people pick.
"Put your tags in the bucket and get ready to dance..." --Colonel Tigh.
"Put your tags in the bucket and get ready to dance..." --Colonel Tigh.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
- Darth Wong
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I wonder if some subjects are too small to qualify. Like the oft-repeated debate about homeschooling relative to social adjustment.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
- CmdrWilkens
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I think with subjects like that it would also be hard to get two folks who really are both passionate and well informed. For as well read and versed as this board is I rather suspect smaller topics are, consequently, less likely to have two solid opponents here.Darth Wong wrote:I wonder if some subjects are too small to qualify. Like the oft-repeated debate about homeschooling relative to social adjustment.
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MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE
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I'd be interested in seeing some sort of debate over just how much control over the economy the government should exert. It seems we have sentiment on the board from relatively libertarian (not lolbertarian) to relatively socialist; it would be interesting and informative to see the two extremes butt heads.
There's also a question of federalism in the US. How much power should the federal government have, as opposed to the states? Tied into this, we could debate the Roe v. Wade decision, if anybody wants to criticise the court's ruling.
There's also a question of federalism in the US. How much power should the federal government have, as opposed to the states? Tied into this, we could debate the Roe v. Wade decision, if anybody wants to criticise the court's ruling.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
- Frank Hipper
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I'd like to see bitter opponents hash out long-standing feuds in The Coliseum in order to settle matters once and for all; focus not so much on an actual topic, but lay the emphasis on great gushing gouts of gore between two seasoned Flamewarriors yearning for the abject humiliation of each other for entertainment's sake.
If it were meant for for well metered, restrained discussion, would it be named The Coliseum?
Members should challenge one another via PM, and if the challenge is accepted, they then apply for admission to Mike.
There should be grave consequences for failure, though; not only to limit the potential for spam in Mike's inbox, but to restrict this to only the most serious, and rabid, combatants.
If it were meant for for well metered, restrained discussion, would it be named The Coliseum?
Members should challenge one another via PM, and if the challenge is accepted, they then apply for admission to Mike.
There should be grave consequences for failure, though; not only to limit the potential for spam in Mike's inbox, but to restrict this to only the most serious, and rabid, combatants.
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- The Duchess of Zeon
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Part of the problem is that a lot of these issues are not nearly so black and white, primarily politics. People tend to like to put things into a spectrum, but but they're really not. Having proponents of socialist and free-market economic policies debate is useful, but can't be said to be a debate over how much control over the economy the government should have; rightwing supporters of dirigisme or at the more extreme, Integralism, would provide completely different arguments leading to a different result.Surlethe wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some sort of debate over just how much control over the economy the government should exert. It seems we have sentiment on the board from relatively libertarian (not lolbertarian) to relatively socialist; it would be interesting and informative to see the two extremes butt heads.
There's also a question of federalism in the US. How much power should the federal government have, as opposed to the states? Tied into this, we could debate the Roe v. Wade decision, if anybody wants to criticise the court's ruling.
Personally I'd be both in favour of Hipper's proposal, and also think that in terms of more civil, planned debates, we should wait for the topics to present themselves.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.
In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
The fact that these issues are not nearly so black and white is what I find so appealing. Any debate about them will not neatly resolve, but it will almost certainly shed light on the underlying philosophies, which I see as quite useful enough to warrant inclusion in the Coliseum's repertoire.The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Part of the problem is that a lot of these issues are not nearly so black and white, primarily politics. People tend to like to put things into a spectrum, but but they're really not. Having proponents of socialist and free-market economic policies debate is useful, but can't be said to be a debate over how much control over the economy the government should have; rightwing supporters of dirigisme or at the more extreme, Integralism, would provide completely different arguments leading to a different result.Surlethe wrote:I'd be interested in seeing some sort of debate over just how much control over the economy the government should exert. It seems we have sentiment on the board from relatively libertarian (not lolbertarian) to relatively socialist; it would be interesting and informative to see the two extremes butt heads.
There's also a question of federalism in the US. How much power should the federal government have, as opposed to the states? Tied into this, we could debate the Roe v. Wade decision, if anybody wants to criticise the court's ruling.
Your point about more than one dimension of philosophies on any given issue is well taken. This could be resolved by posing a series of debates, or even trying a three-way debate in one thread.
I also favor Hipper's proposal. Shall we set up the grand Shep vs. Elfdart debate, then?Personally I'd be both in favour of Hipper's proposal, and also think that in terms of more civil, planned debates, we should wait for the topics to present themselves.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
- Simplicius
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Surlethe wrote:I also favor Hipper's proposal. Shall we set up the grand Shep vs. Elfdart debate, then?
GETTIN' READY TO FIGHT!
I think more & more we should just post the subjects under contention and then invite motivated champions to sign on as they see fit.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Seeing the Duchess' signature reminded me that Master of Ossus was, at one point, preparing arguments against peak oil catastrophism. I'm curious if he'd like to test those in the Coliseum against any one of the PO alarm-ringers (J, Valdemar, IP, and Her Grace come to mind).
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
If I may resurrect this thread, I've had an inquiry from a constituent:
Has anyone else had any thoughts on the next Coliseum match? Guardsman Bass is right: it would be a shame for it to wither away and continue unused.Guardsman Bass wrote:Hello,
Has anything been bouncing around among the senators and elite about whether we are going to be having another Coliseum match at some point? I PM'ed you because you brought the issue up in the Senate.
It'd be too bad if it just withered away from lack of use. I would really like to see, for example, a sanctioned Israeli-Palestine debate, or a debate on some other topic.
Thank you,
Guardsman Bass
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
- Patrick Degan
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We just might have a possible match-up in the works in this thread. A senator and a plebe participating have already made a public suggestion.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
- Master of Ossus
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Forgive my ignorance, but how does this work? Is there a limit like, "The debate ends after five posts each or mutual consensus?" Are there any other rules governing the participants?
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Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."