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Every once and awhile on the Board people use the term "Japs" to discribe the Japanese (more often than not than in reference to Imperial Japan during the second world war), which is frankly an Ethnic slur. I know this board has a hard policy against racism and we would not let people calling someone a Beaner or other such title slide, so why do we let use of the Term 'Jap' slide?

Zor

Has this come up recently? The only few times I remember it ever being used on here it was quickly stomped down on. In that case why not just report it to a mod?

I was wondering recently, in fact, if the term "Japanimation" counts. Is it "Jap"-Animation? I thought it was "Japan"-imation, myself.

Technically, as a slur, it should never be used, and is on a par with the other infamous words such as the "N-word" for Blacks, or the "F-word" for gays, and so on.

EDIT: If we must, perhaps we should consider a list of the slurs that are not allowed here and post it in the FAQs or something. While for the most part, it should be common sense, there was someone recently wondering if "Limey" is a slur against English people.

Coyote wrote:I was wondering recently, in fact, if the term "Japanimation" counts. Is it "Jap"-Animation? I thought it was "Japan"-imation, myself.

I don't think so, but almost everyone calls it "anime" these days anyway. I can't remember the last time I heard anyone seriously calling it Japanimation.

General Zod wrote:Has this come up recently? The only few times I remember it ever being used on here it was quickly stomped down on. In that case why not just report it to a mod?

I concur. If it comes up the relevant forum mod shoudl be alerted and if there is a failure to act then please point us to the incident and the Senate could certainly look into disciplinary action on its own.

If I remember my grandfather correctly, he referred to Japanese as "Nips" or "Goddamn slant-eyes," so I'd definitely count those as slurs. Jap? I dunno. It seems to be on the same "offensive" scale here as "Redneck." Do we have any Japanese board members, or folks who have perspective on this?

Count Chocula wrote:If I remember my grandfather correctly, he referred to Japanese as "Nips" or "Goddamn slant-eyes," so I'd definitely count those as slurs. Jap? I dunno. It seems to be on the same "offensive" scale here as "Redneck." Do we have any Japanese board members, or folks who have perspective on this?

"Nips" is basically the same thing as "Jap". Since, you know, Nippon translates into "Japanese" in the language in question.

I don't see a problem with it. I say Jap bike all the time when referring to the Japanese brands. It's not because I am a racist, it is just that Jap Bike flows better than Japanese Bike. It seems like it is just a shortened name, like Jew, or Brit are shortened versions of Jewish or British.

I mean if someone said "You filthy fucking Jap!" then yeah, obviously there is a problem with it, but I don't think I have ever seen anything like that on this board.

Also, if this is an issue, then it should apply across the whole spectrum. Not that I care, but the fact that I am half Mexican gets brought up quite a bit in jest. I have been called a Beaner among others, a few times. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but it does occur. Like I said though, there is a difference, and people should be able to tell, between someone being a racist or stereotyping and some one just using a short hand/knick name.

I didn't even know it was considered racist. I thought it was just a shortened version of Japanese, like Brit, Yank, or Canuk.

Half Japanese gal here, and yeah, "Jap" is a racist term. "Slap a Jap with War Bonds" and all. Carries the same connotations as "Nip" and was used interchangeably, though I recognize that a lot of people don't realize that. Also I recognize that a lot of people are stupid, like the people I grew up with who mostly called me "Chink" even when I tried to coach them on the correct ethnic slurs.

But I haven't noticed any of that on the board recently.

Havok wrote:I don't see a problem with it. I say Jap bike all the time when referring to the Japanese brands. It's not because I am a racist, it is just that Jap Bike flows better than Japanese Bike. It seems like it is just a shortened name, like Jew, or Brit are shortened versions of Jewish or British.

If I may... Jew is a noun, a descendant from Hebrews, whereas Jewish is an adjective, a description, as in "Chanukah is a Jewish holiday".

Havok wrote:I mean if someone said "You filthy fucking Jap!" then yeah, obviously there is a problem with it, but I don't think I have ever seen anything like that on this board.

Clearly this is good rule of thumb. Context can be quite telling -or rather: essential- when it comes to deciding whether a word is being uttered as an insult or not.

Havok wrote:Also, if this is an issue, then it should apply across the whole spectrum. Not that I care, but the fact that I am half Mexican gets brought up quite a bit in jest. I have been called a Beaner among others, a few times. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but it does occur.

Certainly. I'm Mexican (by nationality, not as in Mexican-American) Oh, and I hardly ever eat beans...

Havok wrote:Like I said though, there is a difference, and people should be able to tell, between someone being a racist or stereotyping and some one just using a short hand/knick name.

I second this. It's a call that should be made on sound judgement, based on the context in the thread you find the potential racial slur.

Examples: I smoked a fag (while writing this). I figure I wouldn't have to explain I was talking about a cigarette.

Indeed on context. A shortening of a nationality for racist purposes should be different than shortening of a nationality for convenience sake. If you just take a broad interpretation, then you could make Yank or Yankee a slur.

If it ever comes up that someone's using Jap around me as shorthand for Japanese, I don't get offended; I just say something like, "Umm, you know that's a racist word, right?" It's something to note for future reference, because they could end up insulting people later accidentally. (Case in point: some place in Texas where the locals decided to honor a Japanese family that had introduced rice growing to their area by naming a local street "Jap Road." Yeah.)

Now, if someone actually did try to call me a dirty Jap or whatever, I'd probably be too shocked that someone finally got it right to be offended. I don't think anyone ever did. Heck, of all the things I once got called a Polack by one particularly stupid redneck. He had no idea what it meant, except that it was something you called people who looked different or something and you wanted to be a jerk. I had to explain that it was a slur against Polish people and he was like, "Huh? What's wrong with Polish people?"

If I haven't said it in the last day or so, rural Georgia sucks.

Which is kinda funny, because I think "Polack" is the correct term for a male citizen of Poland.

As for the 'Jap' reference, maybe if you wore a Rising Sun headband and kept driving your Mistubishi towards them at a high rate of speed they'd get the idea?

Context is indeed everything... sometimes I joke with people about Jewish stereotypes, usually when discussing money.

Call me biased, but how his that really different than "Yank"? (Let alone European, Frenchy, Kraut, etc').

It's not like calling someone "Kike", right?

DEATH wrote:Call me biased, but how his that really different than "Yank"? (Let alone European, Frenchy, Kraut, etc').

It's not like calling someone "Kike", right?

It depends-- if you're an American from the South (the old Confederacy), calling someone a Yankee is supposed to be a grave insult. But when a European refers to us a 'Yanks', I don't believe it is an insult at all. I think the term Yankee was was used in the New England & Pennsylvania /New York region in the early Colonial times, which explains how it got to be a term used by Southerners to describe Northerners. I think the term 'Yankee' is still used by some north-east Americans to refer to themselves.

When English people call us 'Colonials', I believe it is supposed to be a mild put-down, sort of like trying to undermine a brash child, but I could be wrong on that.

'Kraut' and 'Hun' were used as pejoratives against the Germans in WW1 & 2, but I don't know if "Frenchy" was considered on the same level. Usually Frenchmen were referred to as "Frogs" if you wanted to insult them.

Coyote wrote:Which is kinda funny, because I think "Polack" is the correct term for a male citizen of Poland.

As far as I've ever heard, Poles in polite discourse are just Poles. I think "Polack" is an older term which means, as with "Chinamen," that it carries historical baggage from the days when the southern and eastern Europeans were the undesirable immigrants.

It depends-- if you're an American from the South (the old Confederacy), calling someone a Yankee is supposed to be a grave insult. But when a European refers to us a 'Yanks', I don't believe it is an insult at all. I think the term Yankee was was used in the New England & Pennsylvania /New York region in the early Colonial times, which explains how it got to be a term used by Southerners to describe Northerners. I think the term 'Yankee' is still used by some north-east Americans to refer to themselves.

E. B. White:

To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.

Basically, the further north and east you go, the more Yankee you get. Though we're less rustic and blend in a bit better these days

Akkleptos wrote: Examples: I smoked a fag (while writing this). I figure I wouldn't have to explain I was talking about a cigarette.

In some parts of LA it could be interpreted that you wanted to do a drive-by shooting on a gay guy.

General Zod wrote:

Akkleptos wrote: Examples: I smoked a fag (while writing this). I figure I wouldn't have to explain I was talking about a cigarette.

In some parts of LA it could be interpreted that you wanted to do a drive-by shooting on a gay guy.

My point, exactly. I'm aware of the slang use of the verb "smoke". While writing that, I was thinking "I hope no one here thinks I'm advocating for violence against homosexuals in any way". So, thanks for the opportunity to clarify that....

On topic: So, essentially, context is everything. Hell, people learning a foreign language are advised to look at the context upon finding an unknown word, to infer the meaning from it. Wouldn't it be a nice thing to implement that as a policy of sorts, to positively identify racial slur? Of course, even with context, a great deal would be still left to mod discretion. In such cases, it may be a good idea to require the poster to openly clarify his position.

Simplicius wrote: To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.
To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.

If you refer to a Yankee here you actually have a trigger happy, cowboy like American in mind. Pretty much a stereotypical Texan.

Simplicius wrote:

Coyote wrote:Which is kinda funny, because I think "Polack" is the correct term for a male citizen of Poland.

As far as I've ever heard, Poles in polite discourse are just Poles. I think "Polack" is an older term which means, as with "Chinamen," that it carries historical baggage from the days when the southern and eastern Europeans were the undesirable immigrants.

Oddly enough, the best hot dog place in the world is a little place called Polack's Hot Dogs in north Jersey, which has apparently been run by a Polish family for over fifty years. I think that word is a pretty complicated one, because to some people its a grave insult, but to others, it is an accepted term. It almost goes neighborhood by neighborhood.

Man, as has been said before, context is everything, referring to a thingo as "Jap" (Jap car, Jap TV, etc. etc. etc.) then whatevz, but saying "Hey, Jappy McSlantynip Dinky Dao Chinky-chink" is bad. Thread locked.

All things considered, such terms are relative. I think it would be good of us to defer to our Japanese members on the status of the word. If they are uncomfortable with the word, I am inclined to ban its usage. Just because we didn't intend to be offensive doesn't necessarily make its usage inoffensive.

Haven't we had the same discussion years ago, with respect to things like sports team mascots? If the ethnic group in question finds it offensive, we should take that into account rather than completely ignoring their feelings and declaring that it isn't offensive to us. Why is it even relevant that a white guy doesn't find it offensive?

DEATH wrote:Call me biased, but how his that really different than "Yank"? (Let alone European, Frenchy, Kraut, etc').

*Shrugs* For whatever reason "yank" simply isn't racist whilst "jap" is. Probably doesn't even need a real reason given what we're talking about. Similarly, I suspect most Brits & French consider terms like "frog" or "perfidious Albion" to be merely insults rather than racist ones. Doesn't have to be any rhyme or reason to the whole thing.

Personally I've never used "jap" anything more than shorthand for "japanese", but I would be more suspicious (if that's the right word) if someone was using "nip" instead. Anyway, given the replies to this thread I'm inclined to agree with Alyesks here: if the japanese members are uncomfortable then let's stop using it. If they're ok with it then let people continue to use it: I don't think there's much point in banning words unnecessarily.