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I have seen people or articles China want to avoid what Gorbachev did because that would lead first to the dismantling of the CCP and then the country, just like how the USSR fell.

It got me thinking about what he did, and how much actually caused the USSR to fall. My limited understanding is

1. The USSR was economically in trouble and stagnating by the time Gorbachev came to power

2. Gorbachev believed a mixture of economic and political liberalisation would be the salve that the USSR needed

3. The economy improved, but the political reforms strengthened separatist feelings in the union's constituent republics.

4. Gorbachev wanted to use negotiation instead of force to deal with the separatists. He wanted a new deal, but one which would ultimately preserve the union.

5. Some hard liners in his party objected, and engineered a coup.

6. He came out on top and dismantled his party.

7. Gorbachev retained the presidency of the USSR and attempted to negotiate with separatists. However by that stage the two most powerful constituents, Russia and Ukraine already wanted to go their own way, and he couldn't do anything then.

Going back to the linked article, my take on this is that the situations in China and the USSR are quite different, so using Gorbechev as a "cautionary tale" (as per the article linked) seems to be comparing apples to oranges.

Incorrect on 3. Economy did not really improve. The debt balooned, especially foreign debt, inflation ran rampant and deficits worsened to the extreme.

also, China has been a united country for a heck of a lot longer then the USSR was.

madd0ct0r wrote:also, China has been a united country for a heck of a lot longer then the USSR was.

Yeah. On another message board people seem to think
1. Gorbachev's reforms led to the USSR collapsing (never mind that it already had problems before he came to power) and ignoring that Yeltsin and a few other leaders signed the accord to dissolve the union behind his back.

2. USSR and China are both large countries with large populations with non Western modes of rulership.

3. Therefore Gorbachev reforms will lead to the same thing happening to China.

Coupled with the fact that Gorbachev was popular in the West and feeling some Western criticism of China is unfair, you have Gorbachev becoming a poisoned chalice without people actually bothering to find out what exactly he did, or why it effected the USSR so badly.

When I tried to point out at a cursory glance China and USSR are in a totally different position, I get told to stop comparing China's leaders to Gorbachev, even though I did no such thing.