Religious beliefs tested to see if they can relieve pain

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Medic
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Religious beliefs tested to see if they can relieve pain

Post by Medic »

*ahem* To whom it may concern... hello! I'm another newb here but hope to grow in to the community (I've lurked here though so it's grown in to me). For example, I read the FAQ:

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Scientists hunt the ghost in the machine

Ian Sample, science correspondent
Wednesday January 12, 2005
The Guardian

Scientists at Oxford University are to torture people in laboratories in an experiment to see whether a belief in God is effective at relieving pain.

The scientists will apply a chilli-based gel to the skin of volunteers and ask them to try different strategies to lessen the burning sensation, including asking people with strong religious beliefs to draw on their faith to cope with the pain.

The experiment is one in a series that sees scientists join forces with philosophers, theologians and brain surgeons to tackle some of the most profound questions of the human condition: what is the nature of consciousness and how do religious beliefs manifest themselves in our brains?

The Oxford Centre for Science of the Mind will be led by the neuroscientist Lady Greenfield. "I believe the time is now ripe for the machinery of scientific method to come to bear on some of these questions," she said.

The study of consciousness and brain processes that give rise to strongly held beliefs have for long been on the periphery of scientific research.

With the advent of techniques such as functional magnetic resonance imaging, which can take snapshots of brain activity, scientists believe they can obtain meaningful answers about how consciousness arises and what makes belief systems so widespread and resilient.

The group will first assess claims about consciousness and religion, including the suggestion that people with strong faith can use that to cope with pain.

In one experiment, Toby Collins, deputy director of the centre, will use anaesthetics and brain scanning equipment to investigate the boundary between consciousness and unconsciousness. In another, Dr Collins's team will use the chilli gel and ask volunteers to try to cope with the pain.

"We can ask them to try different beliefs, whether spiritual or otherwise. People can cope with pain in many different ways and what we'll be doing is looking at the activity in the brain."

The study could help to reveal how faith is represented in the brain. Other projects will look into the conditions that make people susceptible to strong yet irrational beliefs, such as the age people are exposed to certain ideas and the frequency with which religious messages are reinforced.

The centre has been set up for an initial two years with a $2m (£1m) grant from the US-based John Templeton Foundation, which promotes research into theology and science.

"People are realising these are the most exciting questions that anyone can ask," said Lady Greenfield. Understanding the basis of religious and other types of belief could help to shed light on the surge in fundamentalism and terrorism.

"One of the fundamental reasons why religious beliefs have to be taken seriously ... is that they are potentially very dangerous, and that can be true of other dogmatisms too," said John Brookes, professor of science and religion at Oxford.
It would be curisous if we could isolate the part of the brain that says "wow, a tree, therefore god." Maybe in the distant future fundamentalism will be looked at like ADD and can be treated with drugs? Or am I getting ahead of myself? :lol:
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Re: Religious beliefs tested to see if they can relieve pain

Post by Kazuaki Shimazaki »

PFC Brungardt wrote:Scientists at Oxford University are to torture people in laboratories in an experiment to see whether a belief in God is effective at relieving pain.
I'm betting yes. Nothing supernatural to it, but just the placebo effect would help some. Besides, if you are concentrating on something (like a prayer), it'd help with pain.
It would be curisous if we could isolate the part of the brain that says "wow, a tree, therefore god." Maybe in the distant future fundamentalism will be looked at like ADD and can be treated with drugs? Or am I getting ahead of myself? :lol:
Or maybe they might find out that fundamentalism is merely your "fundie" part winning out over your rationality, while a religious moderate has a "fundie" part somewhat restrained by your rationality. In such a scenario, if they give those drugs to fundies, then it is not fundamentalism that's a disease, but "faith in religion" as a whole, with fundies just getting the "disease" worse. And I can just see those conservatives screaming about how the drug is suppressing religious freedom.
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Post by Pick »

Well, I certainly thing it's an interesting theory, but I don't know how well it could honestly be tested. Still, if it ever could be, now's the time. They at least seem pretty confident in the process they're going to be trying, and it at least beats some other scientific efforts I've heard of.

This is probably my idiocy shining through, but I'd be amused if certain people had a true proclivity to religion because of a very similar reason as to why many people are believed to be homosexual. I mean, how could the fundies argue any more without coming off as blathing hypocrites? :p (well, it's not like they tend to care about facts anyways)

Other than that, I do think it'd be very, very nice if we could understand the science of faith better. Er, or faith's effects. Or. Uhm. Damn, I really have a hard time making myself type "faith" and "science" in the same sentence. *shudder*
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Post by Medic »

Pick wrote:This is probably my idiocy shining through, but I'd be amused if certain people had a true proclivity to religion because of a very similar reason as to why many people are believed to be homosexual. I mean, how could the fundies argue any more without coming off as blathing hypocrites?
Are you kidding :shock: This is a best case scenario, no idiocy need apply.
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Post by Symmetry »

Wouldn't surprise me if it works, the way I used to control pain was sorta similar to what I did in my head when I prayed back when I was a Christian. Since then, though, I've found that sexual fantasies often work better whenever the effects on your concentration aren't unacceptable. Try pinching yourself hard, then imagine having sex and see how the pain seems to fade. I can't really describe what I used to do in words, so I won't try. Basically just a trick of concentration I figured out in 2nd grade origonally to ignore when I was cold.
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Post by mr friendly guy »

There is the Gate Theory on pain perception, which from what I remember is that pain (as in the neural impulses) are transported by certain nerve fibres. Now these nerve fibres can only transmit so much, so it we can stimulate it with non painful stimuli, "the gate" would limit the amount of painful stimuli as it also competes with non painful stimuli.

This is I believe why rubbing your foot after being injured there helps decrease pain, so I suppose concentration tricks can also work on a similar principle.

Also just curious about the "torture" bit. While the torture bit doesn't seem that bad, I wonder how they sold it to the ethics committee. :twisted:
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Symmetry
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Post by Symmetry »

mr friendly guy wrote:Also just curious about the "torture" bit. While the torture bit doesn't seem that bad, I wonder how they sold it to the ethics committee. :twisted:
I'd imagine by making the pain not too bad, by letting the subject stop at any time, by making sure they know they can stop at any time, and by making sure they know what they're getting into beforehand in the first place.
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Post by CJvR »

Wasn't this done earlier? The Inquisition it was called IIRC...
If they wan't to test serious belief they should borrow a few of the Gitmo fanatics and try getting some answers out of them.
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Post by Spyder »

I do appreciate the fact that this test came about because someone said "Hey, we should get some fundies together and torture them for science."

Hypothesis: A christian fundamentalist will attempt to draw upon his/her faith to nullify the pain induced by a topical chili based gel. I predict that we will observe either no change compared to the control subject or the placebo effect.

The conclusion: Satisfying.
:D
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