1) What, are you suggesting that our hairs standing on end when we are frightened makes us look bigger or keeps us warmer when we're cold? Face it, it's a useless remnant from when it would have actually helped.
1)Hair does help to regulate body temperature and helps in protecting us from ultraviolet radiation.
2)OK, maybe it's more reasonable to say that it would be a much better design to have fewer toes on the ground.
2) No, it is not more reasonable to say that it would be a much better design to have less toes on the ground. As I said before we walk in a upright position. While we could make due with no toes at all; we would be off balance all the time. That is what they are for, balance, and are therefore not vestigial.
3) Missed the point. The point is that it's very bad design to have a shared tube for eating and breathing, and clearly happened through modification of already existing structures.
3) What existing structure? The ape's tube? The animal before that? The one before that? Some where along the line there was an ancestor that did not have a tube. You assume that it would somehow choose the best design for the next generation, and according to your arguement, the design it thought best would be the one tube.
4)What's this? A downright lie? Everything about human embryos is uniquely human? I guess "embryological homology" means nothing to you. Of course when they grow the resemblance stops. The point is that human embryos at early stages are practically indistinguishable from those of other species.
4) Again, you confuse what is apparent and what you can see. It does not matter what you can see, or what you think that organ or structure might resemble. What matters is what the organ actually is. In this case the folds, or as you like to call them "gills", are composed of cells that have nothing to due with the respatory system.
If we go by your reasoning, then we must assume that if it looks like something else, it must be that certain something else. We could also say that because my arm is long and can move in all directions, it must be a tail. You might say that it is obvious that my arm is not a tail, but it would also be obvious that the "gills" of a human zygote are not, nor have ever been in the process of it's development, actual gills.
5) Admittedly I don't have specific examples for children with tails and therefore posted too hastily, but I still contest this. I'll try to find some.
5) Why do you contest this still? You have admitted that you have no proof, yet you still continue to believe it is true. My friend, that is the very definition of religion. Thus you have turned what you purport as science, into faith.
6) I know they cause pain because there's not enough room for them. Some people don't get them at all, and some might only get the top two or bottom two, so they're useless for chewing. If this doesn't constitute a useless vestigial feature I don't know what does.
6) As I said before, the only reason there is not enough room for them is because of chaes in our diet. I have all four wisdom teeth in, and I have not had problems wiyth them. I use them to chew my food, just like the rest of my teeth.
7) It doesn't matter if they're not a sex-linked characteristic. They are not sexually neutral- they occur because all embryos are structurally female to start with. It means men are left with a completely useless organ that can become cancerous. This is clear evidence for evolution- a seemingly jury rigged system for getting two sexes.
7) It does matter if they are sex-linked because that would mean that it is part of the package deal, and not something that is determined at conception. And no, not all embryos are female to start off with. The sex is determined at the moment of conception. If the zygote has a XX pair of chromosomes it will be female. If it has a XY pair it will be male. Again you have confused what is aparent with what is actually there. While the zygote might appear to be undetermined as far as sex, that is only because you can not se it yet. Where you to take a sample of the zygote's DNA you could clearly tell if the sex was male or female.[/i]
Can we get this out in the open- are you a creationist?
This amuses me to no end. It also frustrates me to no end. When one side or the other of the great evolution vs. creation debate is losing they promtly dismiss anything the other side has said as nonsense. It is their easy way out. You are clearly expecting me to say I'm a creationist, so you can clod up the ears of everyone observing with stuff like, " He's a creationist, all of them are unscientific, all of them are nuts, all of them are fanatics, they won't listen to reason." You can't do your research on your own and now your looking for an easy way out by starting a creationist witch hunt.
Let me just say this, I question eveything. I don't except either evolution or creation on blind faith. When I or anyone else does this, that is, accepting something blindly, we are turning it into religion.
My advice- Don't accept anything blindly.
Don't accept creation just because your church tells you to. You'll find as many ideas about creation as you will churchs.
Don't accept evolution because some teacher tells you it is true. Again, you will find as many opinions on evolutiona you will those who teach it. The evolution tuaght today is different than the evolution taught 20 years ago, and it will probably change in the comming years. At all times what was taught in the books in all of our schools was said to be the absolute truth. So which one is right?
Do your own research, don't rely on what might be someone else's biased opinion.
Episode V: The Creationists Strike Back
Moderator: Alyrium Denryle
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IDMR
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A pre-emptive warning, do not lay into David just because he is questioning your arguements. This is how the scientific and mathematical community works - peer review. We beat each other with big sticks and other assorted blunt objects!
Of course I am not saying that we shouldn't do the same to his arguements either.
Of course I am not saying that we shouldn't do the same to his arguements either.
"Intellectual rigor annoys people because it interferes with the pleasure they derive from allowing their wishes to be the fathers of their thoughts." - George F. Will
"If theory and reality diverges, change reality." - Josef Stalin
"If theory and reality diverges, change reality." - Josef Stalin
”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.
DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.
DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
Since Deathbringer isn't here to do it, I will....IDMR wrote:A pre-emptive warning, do not lay into David just because he is questioning your arguements. This is how the scientific and mathematical community works - peer review. We beat each other with big sticks and other assorted blunt objects!
Of course I am not saying that we shouldn't do the same to his arguements either.
*enters Eye of Z'ha'Dum mode*
PERFECTION THROUGH CONFLICT! CHAOS AND EVOLUTION!!!!!!
”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.
DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.
DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
Firstly, let me apologise for asking if you were a creationist. You're right, I was trying to categorise you as some kind of kook simply for disagreeing with me. I apologise profusely.
1) OK, it protects against UV and has some small effect on regulating body temperature. However what reason is there for it to stand on end when we're frightened? We have too little for it to be visible.
2) OK, conceeded.
3) No. My point was that this is evidence of "jury rigged" systems in humans, a modification of an already existing system that allowed a new function to be carried out, even though it also caused danger.
4) OK, the gill slits are conceeded. However, they definitely have tails- go here to see a picture http://www.visembryo.com/baby/stage16.html
5) You're right, I was guilty of uncritical, blind acceptance, and I conceed.
6) No, this doesn't just happen in Western countries. Go here for an article about frequency of wisdom teeth in Jordan.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/q ... t=Abstract
7) Hence that is why I said structurally female, not genetically. Why else would men be left with useless mammary glands?
I realise I was guilty of ad hominising and again apologise.
1) OK, it protects against UV and has some small effect on regulating body temperature. However what reason is there for it to stand on end when we're frightened? We have too little for it to be visible.
2) OK, conceeded.
3) No. My point was that this is evidence of "jury rigged" systems in humans, a modification of an already existing system that allowed a new function to be carried out, even though it also caused danger.
4) OK, the gill slits are conceeded. However, they definitely have tails- go here to see a picture http://www.visembryo.com/baby/stage16.html
5) You're right, I was guilty of uncritical, blind acceptance, and I conceed.
6) No, this doesn't just happen in Western countries. Go here for an article about frequency of wisdom teeth in Jordan.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/q ... t=Abstract
7) Hence that is why I said structurally female, not genetically. Why else would men be left with useless mammary glands?
I realise I was guilty of ad hominising and again apologise.
Apology accepted. Thank you.
As far as #3 we obviously don't agree, and since there is no way that you can prove that a double tube is more efficient, or even possible for that matter, and I can't prove that the current one tube is better than your theoretical one, I will drop this one.
4) The "tail" is the same case as the "gills". What you ae seeing is the developing lower spine. Those cells have nothing to do with what might be considered another developing appendage.
6) The reason I only listed Westernized countries is because that is where the most people are that are capable of getting a good diet. Jordan, Israel, and a few other Middle East countries are also capable f getting that type of diet. As I said before, I have them and I use them, so I do not consider them vestigial.
7)I've already stated what I think about that, and I really don't know what else to say.
As far as #3 we obviously don't agree, and since there is no way that you can prove that a double tube is more efficient, or even possible for that matter, and I can't prove that the current one tube is better than your theoretical one, I will drop this one.
4) The "tail" is the same case as the "gills". What you ae seeing is the developing lower spine. Those cells have nothing to do with what might be considered another developing appendage.
6) The reason I only listed Westernized countries is because that is where the most people are that are capable of getting a good diet. Jordan, Israel, and a few other Middle East countries are also capable f getting that type of diet. As I said before, I have them and I use them, so I do not consider them vestigial.
7)I've already stated what I think about that, and I really don't know what else to say.
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EmperorChrostas the Cruel
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David:
One point about dual tubes, one for breathing, one for eating.
Snakes. They have this useful feature, else they would suffocate due to their meathod of swallowing prey. The second tube is under the first, opening just behind the front teeth.I know this, because I have owned snakes and seen this feature. It will also be in any good book about snakes, for the novice owner.
The tailbone has no muscle connected to it, and is actualy a hinderence to sitting.
The appendix's original function was to digest seeds, but has adapted to some immune function, (like a lymph gland) and is redundant, but useful when working properly. The spleen, or gall bladder can be lived without as well, but redundantsy does serve us in the big picture.
Only the loss of the big toe makes the balance off. If our foot were more like mittens, or Japanise style socks, you would balance just fine, and be much more injury resistant.
One point about dual tubes, one for breathing, one for eating.
Snakes. They have this useful feature, else they would suffocate due to their meathod of swallowing prey. The second tube is under the first, opening just behind the front teeth.I know this, because I have owned snakes and seen this feature. It will also be in any good book about snakes, for the novice owner.
The tailbone has no muscle connected to it, and is actualy a hinderence to sitting.
The appendix's original function was to digest seeds, but has adapted to some immune function, (like a lymph gland) and is redundant, but useful when working properly. The spleen, or gall bladder can be lived without as well, but redundantsy does serve us in the big picture.
Only the loss of the big toe makes the balance off. If our foot were more like mittens, or Japanise style socks, you would balance just fine, and be much more injury resistant.
Last edited by EmperorChrostas the Cruel on 2002-07-14 11:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hmmmmmm.
"It is happening now, It has happened before, It will surely happen again."
Oldest member of SD.net, not most mature.
Brotherhood of the Monkey
"It is happening now, It has happened before, It will surely happen again."
Oldest member of SD.net, not most mature.
Brotherhood of the Monkey
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EmperorChrostas the Cruel
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David: My point is, this feature does exsist, that is all.
In favour of your point of view, we have skin for a reason, and the less holes in it, the less chance of infection.
In favour of your point of view, we have skin for a reason, and the less holes in it, the less chance of infection.
Hmmmmmm.
"It is happening now, It has happened before, It will surely happen again."
Oldest member of SD.net, not most mature.
Brotherhood of the Monkey
"It is happening now, It has happened before, It will surely happen again."
Oldest member of SD.net, not most mature.
Brotherhood of the Monkey
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Gil Hamilton
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A point about nipples. They aren't a vestigal structure and aren't sex related. The reason womens breasts become large and mens do not is hormonally related. Men can actually lactate given proper conditions. In fact, I remember reading an article in Scientific American that if a baby sucklings on a mans nipple, the man's body will begin to produce the hormones necessary to fill his breasts (it was an article about gender specific hormones). Men can actually grow breasts, it's just our bodies really need motivated to do so.*
Disturbing fact of the day.
*Note: I'm not talking about man-boobs, I'm talking about actual functional breasts.
Disturbing fact of the day.
*Note: I'm not talking about man-boobs, I'm talking about actual functional breasts.
A point about nipples. They aren't a vestigal structure and aren't sex related. The reason womens breasts become large and mens do not is hormonally related. Men can actually lactate given proper conditions. In fact, I remember reading an article in Scientific American that if a baby sucklings on a mans nipple, the man's body will begin to produce the hormones necessary to fill his breasts (it was an article about gender specific hormones). Men can actually grow breasts, it's just our bodies really need motivated to do so.*
Disturbing fact of the day.
*Note: I'm not talking about man-boobs, I'm talking about actual functional breasts.
No kiddingDisturbing fact of the day.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Gil Hamilton wrote:A point about nipples. They aren't a vestigal structure and aren't sex related. The reason womens breasts become large and mens do not is hormonally related. Men can actually lactate given proper conditions. In fact, I remember reading an article in Scientific American that if a baby sucklings on a mans nipple, the man's body will begin to produce the hormones necessary to fill his breasts (it was an article about gender specific hormones). Men can actually grow breasts, it's just our bodies really need motivated to do so.*
Disturbing fact of the day.
*Note: I'm not talking about man-boobs, I'm talking about actual functional breasts.
You have now scared me.-
Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Gil Hamilton wrote:A point about nipples. They aren't a vestigal structure and aren't sex related. The reason womens breasts become large and mens do not is hormonally related. Men can actually lactate given proper conditions. In fact, I remember reading an article in Scientific American that if a baby sucklings on a mans nipple, the man's body will begin to produce the hormones necessary to fill his breasts (it was an article about gender specific hormones). Men can actually grow breasts, it's just our bodies really need motivated to do so.*
Disturbing fact of the day.
*Note: I'm not talking about man-boobs, I'm talking about actual functional breasts.
"You know, I was God once."
"Yes, I saw. You were doing well, until everyone died."
Bender and God, Futurama
"Yes, I saw. You were doing well, until everyone died."
Bender and God, Futurama
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Master of Ossus
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This guy's so stupid. Dr. Theobald is just trying to show that evolution happens. he is not trying to explain WHY or HOW. He clearly states that in his essay, and then the creationist goes back and says that he has to explain both why evolution occurs and how it occurs in order to provide proof that evolution does occur. The creationist clearly has no idea what the difference between cause and effect are, and he was clearly incapable of even understanding the purpose of the essay in the first place.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul
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"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
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Gil Hamilton
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If you want.David wrote:Your not going to post anymore disturbing facts are you?
The disorder, gynecomastia (unusual amounts of breast tissue in men), has been recorded in very rare cases to give some men double-D sized breasts. On the other hand, it some form or another, gynecomastia affects a good percentage of teenage boys going through puberty. Most of the time, it's temporary.
Stupid Creationists.
i had to deal with them all through high school. In biology our teacher let them read the bible instead of their texts one day. They were supposed to do a timeline of Earth but they did it on the genesis myth.
I am glad to be rid of that small town filth.
P.S. Count me in on any crusade, I have access to many firearms.
I am glad to be rid of that small town filth.
P.S. Count me in on any crusade, I have access to many firearms.
"I got so high last night I figured out how clouds work." - the miracle of marijuana
Legalize It!
Proud Member of the local 404 Professional Cynics Union.
"Every Revolution carries within it the seeds of its own destruction."-Dune
Legalize It!
Proud Member of the local 404 Professional Cynics Union.
"Every Revolution carries within it the seeds of its own destruction."-Dune
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Tranan
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Wen dose the Cra... learn that if they were abel to prove Darwin wrong they still hawe to pro that they are rigth.
I wont go on a crusade. I will get there cildren to be smarter than there parents.
"I you own the mind you dont haw to figt the body."
Conel. Eino af Kantojärvi.
Comander of 6div. 1942-1953.
I wont go on a crusade. I will get there cildren to be smarter than there parents.
"I you own the mind you dont haw to figt the body."
Conel. Eino af Kantojärvi.
Comander of 6div. 1942-1953.
As they like to say in the NRA
You can be a Religious Gun-freak if you want but keep in mind respect your fellow memebers not all of them are in it for the relgion but mearly the gun-nuttery
You can be a Religious Gun-freak if you want but keep in mind respect your fellow memebers not all of them are in it for the relgion but mearly the gun-nuttery
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
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VilliageIdiot
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http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_492558.htmlDavid wrote:
5) Some babies are born with tails or covered in fur
There has never been a case of a human being born with a tail, and there has never been a human born covered in "fur". You may be thinking of a disorder called hypertrichosis, which is the excess production of a hormone group called androgens.
Um, I'm not sure about the accuracy of the article or the reliability of the site, but it does have a picture of a kid with a tail, which doesn't look manipulated. Does this count as proof of kids being born witha tail?
"Please explain to me the scientific nature of the 'whammy'."
Actually that is not a tail. The problem seems to arise from people thinking that if it looks like a tail, it must be a tail. There was one case in America of a baby being born with a tail, or at least that's what the tabloids said. The doctor reported it as a fleshy extension comming from the back. That is probably what this is, a birth defect. Just a extension of the flesh, with no muscles or bone structure. The hindus declaring this child as their reborn god and part monkey is just a product of their fantasism.