Has McCain actually already LOST?(Yes he has)

[ray245]

What possible contribution can these people make to a government controlled by the Democrats?

Keeping us honest? The Republican propensity for making shit up to slander their opponents suggests that they *should* be all over any real, serious corruption like white on, well, the Republican Party. Corruption and abuses of power are the biggest issues with a hypothetical Democratic monopoly. The Democratic platform might not need tempered by conservative ideology, but individual Democrats might need to be tempered by conservative viciousness.

Meh, that's the best I could come up with.

Even among the democracts there is different factions as well, and they can oppose and debate about certain proposal within the party. What can the republican bring to the table that the democracts can't?

[CmdrWilkens]

About the only thing I could forsee republicans doing in a positive sense right now i for the old fiscal conservatives uniting with the blue dogs to ignore the social issues, pass some reasonable budgets but also finally seperate the Republican party from the kooks (or at least help create a new center-right party while the Republican party moves hard to the right and leaves off being a major national influence). In an ideal scenario we would have a decent sized (but minority) center-right party of Blue Dogs and fiscal conservative republicans, a decent sized (majority) of progressive or center-left Democrats, a small hard right Republican party which can't field a viable Presidential candidate but have a few voices in Congress, and the still tiny Green and Libertarian parties to take the rest of the parties to the extreme.

[Durandal]

What possible contribution can these people make to a government controlled by the Democrats?

Keeping us honest? The Republican propensity for making shit up to slander their opponents suggests that they *should* be all over any real, serious corruption like white on, well, the Republican Party. Corruption and abuses of power are the biggest issues with a hypothetical Democratic monopoly. The Democratic platform might not need tempered by conservative ideology, but individual Democrats might need to be tempered by conservative viciousness.

Meh, that's the best I could come up with.

The sad truth is that the Democrats' incompetence and desire to please everybody is almost self-policing. Their ability to yield to the minority party's demands without a fight is unparalleled.

About the only thing I could forsee republicans doing in a positive sense right now i for the old fiscal conservatives uniting with the blue dogs to ignore the social issues, pass some reasonable budgets but also finally seperate the Republican party from the kooks (or at least help create a new center-right party while the Republican party moves hard to the right and leaves off being a major national influence). In an ideal scenario we would have a decent sized (but minority) center-right party of Blue Dogs and fiscal conservative republicans, a decent sized (majority) of progressive or center-left Democrats, a small hard right Republican party which can't field a viable Presidential candidate but have a few voices in Congress, and the still tiny Green and Libertarian parties to take the rest of the parties to the extreme.

The fiscal conservatives are already gone. The descendants of William F. Buckley and Barry Goldwater endorsed the Obama. That's the sign. Where they'll go is up for grabs. But even if they don't go to the Democratic party, they'll be leaving the Republican party in the oh-so-capable hands of theocrats and neo-cons. That's pretty much a death sentence.

[Pulp Hero]

It looks like FOX news just got shutout from the Obama campaign again.

They had a talking head "interviewing" Biden:

Head: Sir, have you ever heard the quote, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" by Carl Marx? How is that different from Obama's views?

Biden:" Are you joking?"

After that even the circle jerk of pundits was criticizing the talking head (though they called a "victory" and that Biden was defeated by her "hard questions")

[Icehawk]

It looks like FOX news just got shutout from the Obama campaign again.

They had a talking head "interviewing" Biden:

Head: Sir, have you ever heard the quote, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" by Carl Marx? How is that different from Obama's views?

Biden:" Are you joking?"

After that even the circle jerk of pundits was criticizing the talking head (though they called a "victory" and that Biden was defeated by her "hard questions")

Here's a video of the full interview with that bitch. The quote in question starts around the 2:25 mark. Biden handles her brilliantly.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Ok, watched the video and Wow... those "Question" should get that lady thrown out of any newes program anywhere ELSE in the world.

"Given that Obama is a Marxisit, how would his policy differ from Karal Marxist?
"Are you saying that Obama wont do anything? And Americas days as a World power are Over?"
"What do you say to people who say Obama wants to turn America into a Socialists country?"

I mean... WTF? is this a joke? I wanted to reach through the tv and slap this lady and say "THESE ARE NOT JOUNARLISTIC QUESTIONS!!!"

Naturally however, especially if you look at the titles of some of these posts on youtube, the Wacky Right see these "Hard hitting Questions" as a smashing blow to Biden, why, just look at:
" Real Reporter Asks Real Questions—Obama Campaign Angry—Barbara West..."

seriously WTF?

[Darth Wong]

This is the kind of person that FOXNews has been hiring ever since it began operations. Even if they were to get a directive to try and be more reasonable (not that I think this has actually happened), they wouldn't be able to. It's just the way they are: you would have to fire 90% of the front-line staff of FOXNews to actually make them "fair and balanced". That's what happens when you hire radical far-right crazies and call them "journalists".

[The Yosemite Bear]

and they still lie like a bad carpet about their competition's ratings, and influence.

[Guardsman Bass]

Ok, watched the video and Wow... those "Question" should get that lady thrown out of any newes program anywhere ELSE in the world.

"Given that Obama is a Marxisit, how would his policy differ from Karal Marxist?
"Are you saying that Obama wont do anything? And Americas days as a World power are Over?"
"What do you say to people who say Obama wants to turn America into a Socialists country?"

I mean... WTF? is this a joke? I wanted to reach through the tv and slap this lady and say "THESE ARE NOT JOUNARLISTIC QUESTIONS!!!"

Naturally however, especially if you look at the titles of some of these posts on youtube, the Wacky Right see these "Hard hitting Questions" as a smashing blow to Biden, why, just look at:
" Real Reporter Asks Real Questions—Obama Campaign Angry—Barbara West..."

seriously WTF?

Assuming Biden has an academic knowledge of what Marxism actually is, he should have thrown that question back in her face - "Do you know what Marxism actually is?"

Or he could have just categorically said, "Barack Obama is not a marxist, in spite of blah blah blah".

[General Zod]

Assuming Biden has an academic knowledge of what Marxism actually is, he should have thrown that question back in her face - "Do you know what Marxism actually is?"

Or he could have just categorically said, "Barack Obama is not a marxist, in spite of blah blah blah".

As a matter of fact, that's more or less what he did.

"You may recognize this famous quote," WFTV Anchor Barbara West told Biden on Thursday. "From each according to his abilities to each according to his needs, that's from Karl Marx. How is Senator Obama not being a Marxist if he intends to spread the wealth around?"

Biden laughed himself out of the unusually tough interview asking in response, "are you joking? Is this a joke?"

"No," responds West.

"Is that a real question?" Biden continues.

"That's a question." West said.

With a chuckle, Biden firmly tells West, "He is not spreading the wealth around. He's talking about giving the middle class an opportunity to get back the tax breaks they used to have."

"We think middle class tax payers should get a break, that's what we think," Biden added. "That's a ridiculous comparison with all due respect."

Obama has responded numerous times since his October 12 meeting with Joe Wurzelbacher in Toledo, Ohio that the conversation was taken out of context.

Since the final presidential debate in Hempstead, New York, 'Joe the plumber' references have been a common line of attack from Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin — telling voters — Obama plans to tax the American people.

[Garlak]

Let me see if I have it right...

The Republican party keeps bringing up "Joe Plumber" this and "small-town pockets of 'real' America" that, taking the whole "folksy" image up to 11. And all the while they're giving tax breaks to the rich worth billions. Oh, and paying off those banks and bankers after the Wall Stree fiasco.

Obama wants to give tax cuts to the middle class, and I think return to taxing the really rich...

And Obama gets called a socialist, communist and Marxist?

How the hell do they get away with this shit? How do they get away with boasting about "Joe Plumber" and "small towns" and all that crap, while they screw over those same people in favor of the really rich??? And how can they cloud up the economic issue to he point that their "folksy" supporters don't realize they're being robbed, and believe that "spreading the wealth around a little bit" would be a BAD thing?

I can understand the sort of corruption that leads to pork-barrel spending; the idea is to be seen as "bringing home the bacon" to your state/district, so that they vote for you again... But how is it possible to both so thoroughly screw over the people you're trying to get votes from, AND (try to) villify the person who's policies would actually *help* them?

[Fleet Admiral JD]

Does anyone else feel like the Republicans are just incredibly frightened of the idea of losing some of their money and quite a bit of their authority? I mean like, scary, clinging-to-power-at-all-costs type of frightened.

Why does the prospect of losing a bit more to taxes to help out your fellow man scare so many Republicans?

[Shroom Man 777]

McCain's speech is FULL OF SHIT. "Todd Palin snowmobile champion, look at what we learned from Obama!"

[Patrick Degan]

Does anyone else feel like the Republicans are just incredibly frightened of the idea of losing some of their money and quite a bit of their authority? I mean like, scary, clinging-to-power-at-all-costs type of frightened.

They've been getting that way increasingly since 2005 even before the Katrina disaster. Even before then with Tommy the Bug Man Delay's Permanent Republikan Majority plan. They really were out to transform us into a Mexican-style de-facto one party state, in which the "opposition" party was nothing more than a token for appearance's sake. Under Chimpus Caesar, it's been largely about cementing GOP power in place for a generation if not longer. But as is always the case with the Right Wing, they just got too greedy for their own good, and as always, they fucked it up. Now that dream's latest incarnation is dying and as you can expect, the GOP are not handling it very well.

[Big Phil]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iE2J ... QD94306I82

McCain says Bush policy on economy is wrong

By MIKE GLOVER – 40 minutes ago

CLEVELAND (AP) — Republican John McCain promised to pivot from President Bush's economic policies and impose strict controls on government spending that would spur investor confidence and the stock market's recovery.

"I will protect your savings and retirement accounts and get this stock market rising again," said McCain, after huddling with economic advisers and pledging a break with Bush administration policies.

Aides said that McCain's call for cuts in the capital gains tax and tax breaks for seniors who invest would help the market rebound, a nod to the top issue on voters' minds little more than a week out from Election Day.

"A stronger economy with greater investor confidence would help turn the stock market around," said Tucker Bounds, a McCain spokesman. "That would help drive up stock prices and the market recover."

In his closing argument of the marathon election, McCain tread a thin line between bashing Democratic rival Barack Obama and making clear that he would steer a different course than the current GOP administration.

"We both disagree with President Bush on economic policies," McCain said. "My approach is to get spending under control. The difference between us is he thinks taxes have been too low, and I think that spending has been too high."

His most dramatic claim was a pledge to turn around a plunging stock market. Most of the progress he promised would come from the economic stimulus sparked by big tax cuts he's pushing, McCain said.

"I will create millions of jobs through tax cuts that spur economic growth," McCain said. The capital gains tax cut he's proposing would encourage investors, Bounds said.

Before he spoke, McCain met with economic advisers including former rival Mitt Romney and former Housing Secretary Jack Kemp. The event was designed to focus his message on the economic meltdown that has dominated the campaign and left him on the defensive. The downturn has helped boost Obama to a lead in the polls, both nationally and in key battleground states like Ohio.

"The difference between myself and Sen. Obama is my plan will create jobs, it's a difference of millions of jobs in America," McCain said. "My approach will lead to rising stock market prices, a stabilized housing market, economic growth and millions of new jobs."

Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton responded, "A day after John McCain said that he agreed with George Bush's economic philosophy, he continued to parrot the same failed policies that give billions to billionaires and big corporations while providing no relief at all to more than 100 million middle-class Americans."

McCain's meeting with economic advisers came as polls show him trailing Obama, with most Americans deeply worried about the direction of the economy. For weeks McCain has been seeking to distance himself from Bush and his economic policies and he made that break complete in the nation's industrial heartland. Obama has tried equally hard to tie McCain to Bush, repeatedly citing McCain's 90 percent support for Bush in Senate votes.

McCain opposed another economic stimulus package and said he would instead seek to bring spending under control. He made clear the advisers he met with would be part of his administration and it would steer a far different course than Bush.

McCain described an economic stimulus under discussion in Congress as "another $300 billion spending spree they are calling a stimulus plan."

"I would rather give the great American middle class additional tax cuts and let you keep the money and invest it in your future," said McCain.

McCain repeated his proposals to cut taxes for those who hold stocks for at least a year, and end requirements that force people to take money out of retirement accounts during the market's downturn.

He also said he would toughen rules governing the financial markets.

"I will demand complete transparency into the accounts and activities at all banks and insurance companies so they cannot take on the kind of risk that brought down the financial system," said McCain. "We will have strict rules of conduct on Wall Street and if they are broken, executives will be severely punished."

While he voted for a $700 billion rescue package for the financial sector, McCain said "the government will get out of the banking business fast" if he's elected.

"The Bush plan is wrong for America. My friends, vote for me and I will change things by doing more of the same in a mavericky manner."

[starfury]

Let me see if I have it right...

The Republican party keeps bringing up "Joe Plumber" this and "small-town pockets of 'real' America" that, taking the whole "folksy" image up to 11. And all the while they're giving tax breaks to the rich worth billions. Oh, and paying off those banks and bankers after the Wall Stree fiasco.

Obama wants to give tax cuts to the middle class, and I think return to taxing the really rich...

And Obama gets called a socialist, communist and Marxist?

How the hell do they get away with this shit? How do they get away with boasting about "Joe Plumber" and "small towns" and all that crap, while they screw over those same people in favor of the really rich??? And how can they cloud up the economic issue to he point that their "folksy" supporters don't realize they're being robbed, and believe that "spreading the wealth around a little bit" would be a BAD thing?

I can understand the sort of corruption that leads to pork-barrel spending; the idea is to be seen as "bringing home the bacon" to your state/district, so that they vote for you again... But how is it possible to both so thoroughly screw over the people you're trying to get votes from, AND (try to) villify the person who's policies would actually *help* them?

I think this article from 2003 in the Exile makes a nice answer to the question

[The Yosemite Bear]

hey I think I've got a perpetual motion/alternative energy source. Just harness the energy the McCain Campaign has used to change their oppinions on everything since 2000.

[Haruko]

Remember this?

Now there's the following article I saw at Pollster.com with the headline "New Third party ad features Obama with Rev. Wright" that links to a blogger at Politico:

The National Republican Trust PAC, which aired one harsh anti-Obama ad that it also used to fundraise on Drudge and elsewhere, says it's putting $2.5 million behind this spot in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

The ad is exactly what many conservatives have been hoping would air for months: A Jeremiah Wright highlight reel, with a voice-over describing the pastor's long relationship with Obama.

"For 20 years, Obama never complained, until he ran for president," says the ad, which labels Obama, "too radical, too risky."

"This is the base giving a collective direction to where the campaign should have gone a long time ago," said Rick Wilson, the consultant who made it.

The ad in question is embedded in that Politico page linked to above.

Anyone see this making any real difference?

[The Yosemite Bear]

Depends does this mean we can bring up the Hagee and Sepratist Party Affiliations?

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

Let me see if I have it right...

The Republican party keeps bringing up "Joe Plumber" this and "small-town pockets of 'real' America" that, taking the whole "folksy" image up to 11. And all the while they're giving tax breaks to the rich worth billions. Oh, and paying off those banks and bankers after the Wall Stree fiasco.

Obama wants to give tax cuts to the middle class, and I think return to taxing the really rich...

And Obama gets called a socialist, communist and Marxist?

How the hell do they get away with this shit? How do they get away with boasting about "Joe Plumber" and "small towns" and all that crap, while they screw over those same people in favor of the really rich??? And how can they cloud up the economic issue to he point that their "folksy" supporters don't realize they're being robbed, and believe that "spreading the wealth around a little bit" would be a BAD thing?

I can understand the sort of corruption that leads to pork-barrel spending; the idea is to be seen as "bringing home the bacon" to your state/district, so that they vote for you again... But how is it possible to both so thoroughly screw over the people you're trying to get votes from, AND (try to) villify the person who's policies would actually *help* them?

They get away with it because their lower to middle class base buys into everything they do:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 5#p2916895
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 7#p2916897

They actually believe cutting taxes for the rich and not them works for the country.

[CmdrWilkens]

R
The ad in question is embedded in that Politico page linked to above.

Anyone see this making any real difference?

Not a lick. PA is already so far in the bag for Obama that the 1 or 2 percent this could shift things won't have time to develop before the eleciton has come and gone. We have 7 days left and there just isn't enough time to shift things.

Ohio and Florida are also getting saturated with Obama's message and with the economy in the tank the only way for a single ad like this to make an impact is for the entworks (aside from Fox News) to replay it constantly for free. If its gets a 30 second mention and then on to topics of actual concern then its a $2.5million dollar waste. Moreover it will be running against a week where Obama is putting a half hour of himself in front of everyone. Lastly $2.5 million in those three states doesn't go all that far on TV. Obama has been dropping several million each week into those states and he gets cheaper advertising time than these guys.

[Justforfun000]

Starfury Wrote

I think this article from 2003 in the Exile makes a nice answer to the question

You know...that was a very interesting article. I learned a great deal about Russia I didn't know.

[ArcturusMengsk]

R
The ad in question is embedded in that Politico page linked to above.

Anyone see this making any real difference?

Not a lick. PA is already so far in the bag for Obama that the 1 or 2 percent this could shift things won't have time to develop before the eleciton has come and gone. We have 7 days left and there just isn't enough time to shift things.

Not only that, but at this point McCain could carry both Pennsylvania and Ohio (they'll likely vote as one this year) and Obama would still more likely win than not. Anything McCain does from now 'till election day is irrelevant.

[SirNitram]

I find this crucially important! On-the-record boasting of collectivism and spreading the wealth! Link

In the past, she said, “Alaska was conceding too much, and chipping away at our sovereignty. And Alaska—we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.”

Sadly, no extra credit will be award for working out it was Palin saying that. Collective ownership, hot damn! It is a referendum on socialism!

[The Spartan]

Anything McCain does from now 'till election day is irrelevant.

Funny you should say that, I just saw Yahoo's front page and the projection listed there is a nearly 200 EC landslide in favor of Obama.