Posted: 2003-02-12 04:17am
Got a link for the SB version?Connor MacLeod wrote:Its amazing how differently this thread is running compared to the one over at SB
Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid ideas
https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/
Got a link for the SB version?Connor MacLeod wrote:Its amazing how differently this thread is running compared to the one over at SB
http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... adid=44467weemadando wrote: Got a link for the SB version?
I already touched on base location, that's an important one. If we want it somewhere close to all the main events, it'd have to be in Rohan or just north of it near Fangorn and Lorien. Goodbye secrecy in this case, that's too close to both Dol Guldur (leveled, but I would not count on it being uninhabited by Sauron's creatures) and Isengard, so both Sauron and Saruman would know of us in short order. Perhaps if it were somewhere in the White Mountains, tucked out of sight in some small vale but within reach of settlements (either Gondorian or Rohirrim), this would be mitigated. If we place it someplace in Eriador, e.g. the coast, we'll be a long way from anywhere meaningful. Base location determines a lot of what we'll be able to do and how effectively, and will also have a direct effect on how much troops we'll need to dedicate to guarding it and our assets while we have missions, and that will determine how many people will be available for said missions, and that will determine what sort of missions we'd be able to perform.AdmiralKanos wrote:In all seriousness, we would have to think logically and sequentially:I would say that when the time comes for Frodo to embark on his fellowship, he'll make much better ground on a Hummer than he would on foot. A heavily armed vehicular convoy could bypass most of the problems we saw in the LOTR trilogy, while an attack on Isengard with explosives and demolition of the dam would wipe out Saruman's forces. Saruman himself could be taken out by a sniper.
- Secure a perimeter. Clear out a large area around the base. Use deforestation if necessary in order to clear lines of fire for the defensive weapons. In this way, we ensure that the base cannot be directly attacked.
- Secure sources of food and water. All the firepower in the world won't do you a damned bit of good if you starve to death. Given the length of time we're in field (at least one year, and possibly many years), this is not a trivial concern at all. We must be self-sufficient, so we need to dig for water and learn to be farmers. Living off MRE's inside the base would be crazy; they will run out eventually, and we would need them for siege situations (although our vastly superior weapon range would mitigate the effect of a siege). We should also learn to hunt, mainly small game with traps, e.g. rabbit nooses. No using firearms for that, because we need the ammo, unless there's a substantial quantity of bird shot for the shotguns. We need meat for our diet too.
- Convert all of the vehicles to run on methanol. Unless we plan to drill for oil, we're going to run out of gasoline pretty damned quickly, particularly with all the recon we have to do. We should also acquire some horses and learn to care for them (from some locals if nobody in the group knows anything about caring for horses). You can cover a lot of ground on horseback and you're a lot less conspicuous than such vehicles, and it will conserve fuel. I'd like to stay unnoticed by Saruman and Sauron for as long as possible just in case. We're very few in number, and despite all the advanced weapons and stuff, we're still vulnerable enough.
- Perform extensive recon of surrounding areas, using Hummers for mobility. Look specifically for enemy troops (obviously) and human settlements. We will need to forge lines of communication with existing human settlements for various logistical and strategic reasons. This would somewhat depend on base location, because if it's in the middle of mountains, the vehicles will be of limited usefulness. Of course, if we get to pick the base site, this is not an issue.
- Women: like it or not, the vast majority of the people on this base will be men, and one year at a minimum is a pretty long time to go without female companionship. Unless Kelly and Zaia and the handful of other females are willing to take on 300 men, there would be a serious gender imbalance. This is yet another reason to work closely with neighbouring human settlements. Indeed. This is a serious issue because it would likely tear the group apart out of frustration in short order if unaddressed.
- Advisory activity: we could exponentially improve our strategic position by giving some of our knowledge to the locals. Much as American special forces often function in an advisory capacity to local forces, we would try to do the same. We'd need to be close enough to populations of large enough size for this to be effective. Rohan or perhaps the Plains of Rhûn, or north near Erebor and the Dale and the Iron Hills. Must remember, most of the East and South is under Sauron's influence, and they could stamp us out.
- And now, we can finally look at various tactics relating to direct assaults, weapons, etc.
As for the Ring, I would adopt Ando's suggestion to try destroying it using extremely hot-burning materials and powerful corrosive agents rather than wasting time on this quest. Even if the Ring has some magical enchantment which keeps it from getting the slightest scratch until it finally pops, we know it's a simple matter of being "hot enough", and thermite burns pretty fucking hot. We probably have magic indestructibility factor unless special condition X (toss into Orodruin) is fulfilled. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point to this exercise, would there? Sure, we could try, but it feels to me like it'd be against the 'rules' and wouldn't work.
If that doesn't work, I would advocate massive deployment of chemical weapons against Sauron's main base of power, in order to cause massive casualties in his army. Let's face it; despite some fanboy claims, he's simply not that formidable without his army. Agreed. Orcs don't exactly deserve much mercy if any at all, and it'd help in getting the job done, as well as saving a lot of human lives.
Mind you, with several present and former military officers in the group, we would have to see if they can generate a better plan.
There are ents only in Fangorn forest that we know of. As long as our base is not smack in the middle of Fangorn, I don't think there'd be much problems, but putting it in the middle of a forest isn't a good idea. We'd have to cut a road for the vehicles, which is a dead giveaway, and would take time. We're not talking parkland forests here, but good oldfashioned forests ala medieval Europe, where you could go faster on foot than on horseback in many cases, to say nothing of vehicles like Hummers.Shinova wrote:Only problem with that is we might piss off the ents.
Hey, that's no fair. I know how to make corned blackpowder but I'd barely be in the top 100 if you removed the military posters from that.phongn wrote:After reviewing a thread on SB, I'll put a similar one here with modification and see what ya'll think.
The top 200 posters on SB, the top 75 posters here on SD and anyone with military experience from either are sent to Middle Earth around TA 3000 (one year before the beginning of FOTR). The main war does not begin until TA 3018.
Assume, for a moment, that we do not immediately kill each other (except BigBryan and Laird).
Present there is a large-sized military base, with .50 cal machine guns and 40mm grenade launchers fixed in armored towers with vast ammo stores that cannot be removed. There are thick concrete walls and a trench, which is spanned by a drawbridge.
Inside are ample barracks and training facilities, a well-stocked medical clinic, a fully functional chemistry lab with supplies, a library of pertinent books, and 150 of the various unarmed versions of the Hummer (tanker, truck,).
Munitions are comprised of a massive supply of rations, uniforms, body armor, fuel, and the following ammo types: 9mm NATO, .40 S&W, 7.62mm NATO, and 5.56mmm NATO, as well as various 12ga shotgun shells.
All those teleported get to choose a pistol and a SMG, Pump-action shotgun, or rifle, but they have no ammo other than that listed above. People who are experienced with firearms may additionally bring a SAW or M60, as well as their personal weapons. They can carry one backpack each. They are automatically immunized to any middle-earth diseases, cured of any current infectious diseases, and know Westron fluently with decent Sindarin. Command is shared by IXJac and Painrack, as they actually have some military experience.
The objective: Neutralize Saruman's forces, and distract the forces of Mordor long enough for the Fellowship to sneak in. Any who completes this operation will recieve a doubled life expectancy (triple for the commanders), treasure, and the ability to return home if you desire.
What do you bring, and how well do we do?
Yeah, they're obsessing over how many orcs they could kill with whatever shit they happen to be carrying personally.Connor MacLeod wrote:Its amazing how differently this thread is running compared to the one over at SB
Eh. I think you're overgeneralizing it, but there is the fact that a majority of the posts are occupied with killing either Laird or Big Bryan.weemadando wrote:Yeah, they're obsessing over how many orcs they could kill with whatever shit they happen to be carrying personally.Connor MacLeod wrote:Its amazing how differently this thread is running compared to the one over at SB
We are strategically and tactically planning as a group.
Yet more evidence of the dominance of the glorious SDnetBBS over the facistii scum of SB!
Well, nobody signed up for this. Recall the Anabasis? My suggestion would be to let those who want the position of commander, or those who think someone else should have it, state their reasoning of why they, or that person, should be commander, and then have some other people speak up in favour or against it.Edi wrote:As for command structure, jegs or Guyver would get the top spot, with Rob Wilson, Knife, Coyote, Emperor Ming and the rest of us from the Mess being down the chain from there. Others like Wong and Ossus et al who have a good grasp of tactics and strategy and all the other relevant stuff could well move up the chain by leaps and bounds once they got through basic training, because, let's face it, most of us would need to get in decent shape first. I'm no exception to that, but I'd not have to learn all the basic military stuff from scratch, fortunately.
Edi
I don't think we get choppers.Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:Well, if we have attack helicopters we could take out the Nazgul and the oliphaunts pretty easily... and the black gates of Mordor could be opened by large quantities of artillery.
I don't remember Anabasis, whatever the hell that was. Of course it's important to work out a solid decision making structure where there's a popularly decided leader and also some form of council of advisors so that the top man isn't inundated with people pestering him, but I was thinking in terms of this being a military operation (which it is), so obviously those people who have military experience should lead, because they know the stuff. And if they'd not be in charge constantly, they would be unquestionable leaders in the field.The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Well, nobody signed up for this. Recall the Anabasis? My suggestion would be to let those who want the position of commander, or those who think someone else should have it, state their reasoning of why they, or that person, should be commander, and then have some other people speak up in favour or against it.Edi wrote:As for command structure, jegs or Guyver would get the top spot, with Rob Wilson, Knife, Coyote, Emperor Ming and the rest of us from the Mess being down the chain from there. Others like Wong and Ossus et al who have a good grasp of tactics and strategy and all the other relevant stuff could well move up the chain by leaps and bounds once they got through basic training, because, let's face it, most of us would need to get in decent shape first. I'm no exception to that, but I'd not have to learn all the basic military stuff from scratch, fortunately.
Edi
Then put it to a vote of the assembled. Whoever has the popular support, obviously, will be obeyed most readily, and that's important in such a situation. Major issues should also be put up to the entire assembled group for a simple majority vote by show of hands/popular acclaim. Some quick bylaws should be written establishing when votes may be proposed and held, and when the currently established chain of command must be obeyed without question.
Said bylaws can also establish the mechanism for letting natives join the assembly.
The March Up-Country, the story by Xenophon the Athenian of ten thousand Greek mercenaries - of whom he was one of their number - who after the Persian noble had hired them had gotten killed at the battle of Cunaxa, elected (or, literally, voted) to march home from in the middle of modern day Iraq, surrounded by the victorious Persian army, all the way through the hostile Persian Empire to the Bosporus.Edi wrote:
I don't remember Anabasis, whatever the hell that was.
I think a popular assembly would be better. We're at a very small size here. A decent number of the small townships in New England actually still operate just fine like this - All the decisions are made by the entire voting populace getting up and voting on it in a common assembly.Of course it's important to work out a solid decision making structure where there's a popularly decided leader and also some form of council of advisors so that the top man isn't inundated with people pestering him,
Well, considering the military nature of the facility, it might not be unreasonable to have the same chain of command also responsible for day-to-day administration, handling supplies, the labs, and so on. Alternatively, other people could be elected to oversee day-to-day administration. I think however that surely at this stage, and even after some potential growth, an assembly would work just fine - Plato pegged the upper limit at 10,000 voting citizens, and The Ten Thousand were able to handle actually marching around and voting on issues that affected their campaign performance, while still operating as a cohesive army.but I was thinking in terms of this being a military operation (which it is), so obviously those people who have military experience should lead, because they know the stuff. And if they'd not be in charge constantly, they would be unquestionable leaders in the field.
Personally I'd like the base set up somewhere like Weathertop...Darth Wong wrote:
Worse case scenario is that we pull up the drawbridge and introduce the Ents to napalm. It's better than having a base surrounded by thick forest. Of course, this presumes that the base IS, in fact, surrounded by thick forest to begin with. If it's stuck in the middle of a flat plain, this is not an issue.
Errr, I think that in a contest between massed Uruk-hai ranks and a speeding Hummer the Hummer will lose.Some silly SBer wrote:what's wrong with everyone getting into a Humvee and ramming through Uruk-Hai lines?
rampage!
What the fuck is he talking about? Over-under M-79? I'd like to see one of them. (Yes, I know he is still referring to an M203, but).I'm ashamed that this guy is an Aussie wrote:Ill be taking a modified M-16 A2 with over-uder M-79 grenade launcher, LAC/R-100 laser sighting system.
Handgun: Ill take a nice dependable Glock.
I'll also take Rambo survival knife.
Ten Inch Blade, shaped like a Bowie knike
Made from 440C stainless steel
Two inches wide
One quater inch thick
One and three quater pounds in weight
Serrated edge
Stainless steel handle, wrapped in 120 pound testweight fishing line
Handle guard extentions: One inch Phillips screwdriver and One inch Flathead screwdriver
Hollow handle, Inside: Magnetic Compass, small folded knife, matches in waterproof container, fishhooks and needle.