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Two months ago I posted the thread proposing SDNW4. Everyone jumped on and we are two weeks from game start (July 3rd, two weeks from Saturday). So here is our first Commentary thread.

First Corn!!!









Seriously, are you going to kick off the first official post as well? And based on.. when? Morning your time, a GMT time, etc?

Oh, and Pollux? As PeZook linked to last thread: This right here? I should warn you of the Norseman Rule. After the mess in SDNW2 having a state with legal slavery is something of a faux pas now, a big big no-no, and under the provisions of the Norseman Rule we mods will basically declare open season on you. I can think of at least 10 other PCs off the top of my head who will gleefully dispatch forces to begin giving you an ass-stomping.

Coyote: I might, I'll probably have one written specifically for game start on 1 January 3400 in-game, 3 July 2010 IRL, and will post it either late Friday/early Saturday of the 2nd-3rd or on the morning of the 3rd Eastern Standard Time. I'm trying to get a prologue bit done so I can post a thread for that and for people to post little vignettes, if the mood strikes them, as we gear up for start.

No, July 3rd, IIRc.

Otherwise I would be in deep stuff because I haven't finished the nation yet.

Patience mangs, patience...there is still time.

PeZook wrote:Let's call him Najrds Cirak!

I like the name...should I know it from somewhere?

PeZook wrote:Oh, it happens all the time. It's a real nuisance.

Thats what all those mercenaries are for. Clean up duty.

Siege wrote:Alternatively, any attempt at rules lawyering will be met with the moderators declaring "a massive meteoroid falls on your homeworld".

Or a massive UN Battle Fleet showing up to explain things to all ya fringe world yokels who don't know where your loyalties lay.

Steve wrote:Oh, and Pollux? As PeZook linked to last thread: This right here? Violation of the Norseman Rule. After the mess in SDNW2 having a state with legal slavery is something of a faux pas now, a big big no-no, and under the provisions of the Norseman Rule we mods will basically declare open season on you. I can think of at least 10 other PCs off the top of my head who will gleefully dispatch forces to begin giving you an ass-stomping.

You don't even have to think about it, just look at the holy empire of haruhi suzumiya's list of allies. The beat down wagon is pretty full already.

Hahaha....As Steve points out to me, I'm a bit slow tonight. Srdjan Karic, I miss that magnificent bastard.

I don't actually have anything against Pollux's merry bastards being in the game, since The Norseman Rule pretty much enforces itself

...and I'm conducting (rumored) medical experiments on sentients, yet nobody bats an eye

PeZook wrote:I don't actually have anything against Pollux's merry bastards being in the game, since The Norseman Rule pretty much enforces itself

Well, yeah, but I was giving him fair warning it's in play.

...and I'm conducting (rumored) medical experiments on sentients, yet nobody bats an eye

Oh, we're batting eyes, but it's a scale thing. Abducting the odd dozen people every year isn't the same as running a dedicated slavocracy. We'll get to you eventually.

Oh, the Cevaucians are on the map now.

Steve wrote: Oh, we're batting eyes, but it's a scale thing. Abducting the odd dozen people every year isn't the same as running a dedicated slavocracy. We'll get to you eventually.

Hey, it's all for a good cause!

Well, some sort of cause, anyway...

PeZook wrote:Hey, it's all for a good cause!

Well, some sort of cause, anyway...

You keep teasing us and I'll invade you, just to find out.

Darkevilme wrote: You don't even have to think about it, just look at the holy empire of haruhi suzumiya's list of allies. The beat down wagon is pretty full already.

Ha! A Beatdown wagon can never be full.

Steve wrote:Oh, we're batting eyes, but it's a scale thing. Abducting the odd dozen people every year isn't the same as running a dedicated slavocracy. We'll get to you eventually.

What counts as dedicated slavocracy? Clone soldiers or brainwashed citizens? Because I was thinking of having one of my noble houses be making massive use of clone vats.

Thanas wrote:

Steve wrote:Oh, we're batting eyes, but it's a scale thing. Abducting the odd dozen people every year isn't the same as running a dedicated slavocracy. We'll get to you eventually.

What counts as dedicated slavocracy? Clone soldiers or brainwashed citizens? Because I was thinking of having one of my noble houses be making massive use of clone vats.

What Pollux wrote here, or what Norseman did in SDNW2, basically.

I'll let you decide when I shoot you my faction writeup then.

I use cloned soldiers myself (Replicants), but they're always given a choice whether they actually want to sign up or not. Of course they're conditioned to accept the contract, but even so one point something percent of 'em refuses. And it ain't slavery if it's voluntary! (For a given value of voluntary )

Can we uneducated noobs get a summary of this "Norseman rule"? What happened? Should I be glad I didn't try to play a Borg knockoff then?

Once upon a time in SDN World #2 there was a certain player, Norseman, who played as a certain nation, Astaria, which was basically an island autarky in the middle of nowhere which practiced state-sanctioned slavery. This by itself would probably not have been enough to warrant eradication, but it could be said that Norseman went out of his way to rub people's noses in the horrifying way in which (some of) those slaves suffered--i.e. we were treated to innocent peace workers from other nations forcibly kidnapped and sold into slavery, who then were subjected to all kinds of mental and physical (including sexual) abuse.

Eventually this pissed of players to the point where Stas Bush' communist state bombed the shit out of Astaria, followed not too long thereafter by Shep launching a massive genocidal bio-weapon attack that obliterated Astaria and the vast majority of its population and reduced the island to a quarantine zone for the rest of the game. Oh, and in the process Astaria struck back at Shepistan and this nearly sparked the end of the world. Whilst the destruction of Astaria itself was an interesting development (and, I'd say, practically inevitable from the start), it's the deliberate pushing-of-buttons in order to tick people off enough to descend into such a murderous, genocidal rage that they'd very nearly end the game itself that is something to be avoided.

To be honest, Shep just wanted to get his genocide on, since Astaria made attempts to reform (Shep just wanted them to reform RIGHT THEN AND THERE, which was an impossible demand), and he got gleefully destroyed later because in part of the whole Astarian business.

Also, Norseman and me made an awesome story out of it

Perhaps, but in this particular case I can understand perfectly well why he wanted to, ah, "get his genocide on". After Norse's insane "we'll reform by turning our slaves into indentured servants for ten years and then MAYBE giving them their freedom" non-starter it was glaringly obvious he wasn't really interested in reform but solely in buying more time in which to annoy and irritate other players. After all that was pretty much what Astaria was: a tool with which to push players' buttons. When did it ever interact with the rest of the world outside of that one joint story he did with you (which, incidentally, generated at least as much resentment as all the rest of his writings combined)?

That's the thing to avoid here: asshole states which exist for no other reason than to irritate other players by their very existence and actions. Play an evil empire for all I care, but don't just sit in one little corner exhorting the continued depraved vileness of your nation and nothing else.

Siege wrote:Perhaps, but in this particular case I can understand perfectly well why he wanted to, ah, "get his genocide on". After Norse's insane "we'll reform by turning our slaves into indentured servants for ten years and then MAYBE giving them their freedom" non-starter it was glaringly obvious he wasn't really interested in reform but solely in buying more time in which to annoy and irritate other players. After all that was pretty much what Astaria was: a tool with which to push players' buttons. When did it ever interact with the rest of the world outside of that one joint story he did with you (which, incidentally, generated at least as much resentment as all the rest of his writings combined)?

Well, it was a start. He could've been pressured further, and of course indentured servants can be set free whether or not the slaveholder wants to sell them if somebody pays off their debt.

Shep's solution was to kill everyone, including the slaves

Siege wrote:That's the thing to avoid here: asshole states which exist for no other reason than to irritate other players by their very existence and actions. Play an evil empire for all I care, but don't just sit in one little corner exhorting the continued depraved vileness of your nation and nothing else.

"Don't antagonize 90% of the players" is good advice for everyone, really

Nation should be up and ready soon to spread the wonderful will of the free market.

I really need to finish reading through the previous SDNW threads. Although I'm partially glad I didn't follow up on my idea of turning my puny SDNW1 island into a bond-villian lair (I had set up a volcano and all!), that could've ended badly... Wait, didn't SDNW1 end up in a nuclear holocaust? Never mind.

As for slavery, I guess basing it off the greek/roman model (idealized maybe) would be the way to go, questionable, but not outright despicable.

Where are you right now? I'm reading through the most AWESOME parts from time to time

Like the invasion of giant sea monsters. Or Frank The Elephant.