StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Split from Queue Thread.

Raesene wrote: Ship Construction

BB Patria 5 15 Quarter 1/8 Patria-class; new ships
BB Oceano 4,8 4,8 Quarter 6/8 Il Principe-class
BC Lepanto 3,3 3,3 quarter 8/8 Medici-class
CA Sangro 1,7 1,7 quarter 5/5 Tevere-class
CV Cigno 2,2 2,2 quarter 1/5 as HMS Courageous
CV Albatro 2,2 2,2 quarter 1/5 as HMS Courageous
DD 12x Alkali et… 0,3 3,6 quarter 1/3 new DD
SS 12x long range 0,1 1,2 quarter 1/3
total 19pts

This list isn't completed yet, I'll build some more and also upgrade some army units.

Um, no way building all those ships is just 19 points. And I'm not sure I understand the number usage, is that your reflection of tonnage? I'm guessing "Quarter" represents how many quarters they've been under construction.

I think people really failed the math on ships. 1 kt = 1 point. Not 0,1 point. That applies to Portugal and others. And ships are expensive so they continue expending the X kt = X points every quarter.

No, some of mine are in the 5% cost after 2 years sea trials shakedown period. The others are being paid for in full. Unless I have misunderstood and fitting out doesn't happen at reduced cost.

Ah, so it's trials not construction. Pardon me.

I just pay full price until a ship is commissioned. I don't care if I'm not obliged to. Otherwise I'll be too overpowered in industrial points.

Yeah, I know the feeling. 525 is a lot to play with and I'm not even on a war/all out industrial stance yet.

That just tells me we need more things for people to do with their IBPs....

Alternatively you could... wait for it.... not spend them all?

I know, that or blow them on a space program.

If anyone spots any mistakes in my figures there, let me know. Mathematics is not a strength of mine.

Also, you guys and your great bustling industrial centers, I'm making due on 33 points now, though, I suppose that's what happens when one orders six new cap ships all at once.

Well I have four 50kt and four 26.5kt vessels underway while also rebuilding four 22kt Dreadnoughts, and converting two more to aircraft carriers. But I only have 12.4 points left this quarter though a do have over a hunder for each quarter after this... In short, your works are lazy and need more overseers with whips.

Norade wrote:No, some of mine are in the 5% cost after 2 years sea trials shakedown period. The others are being paid for in full. Unless I have misunderstood and fitting out doesn't happen at reduced cost.

Wait...5%? I thought it was 25%.

I wonder if constructing high-powered electric plants of dozens of MWt should cost around a point per, say, 10 MWt? Likewise with the construction of canals, etc.

OK, so help me out here: I have permission to build the railroad along the coast, and that'll be 313 kilometers of railway for me.

How much is that in IBPs? Is it 1 IBP = 1 km? How long does it take to build such a project? Is it like a year for every 100km or something? It'll take me about 3 years to build it, if I am allowed to round down the 13 km, which sounds about right.

And once I'm done, what does that do for my Infrastructure score? How many hundreds of km of railway/road/telegraph/telephone/wireless/television/plumbing/electricity do I need to improve my Infrastructure? Are we going to just standardize them all and say it is 1 IBP=1km of wire/road/transmission range/pipe/etc?

Also, I've landed a contract for major industrial machine parts work for the Sultan. How many tons of production do I need to account for before I can add something to my Economy? And if the Germans do build a base in Tel-Aviv, how much FDI is needed before I can add that to my Econ?

I'm also wondering if I need to have a 2-tiered OOB. My coastline should have an Infrastructure about on par with most mid-sized European towns/cities, but the interior is still using hand-pump water, outhouses, and oil lamps in many places.

I also think that the ruleset might need to be updated for Navy limits. As it stands, based purely off of Ecomics and Industry, the Yishuv can support up to 150,000 tons of Naval strength. But I have a population base of 0, with less than half a million people, many of whom are illiterate peasants. I have 4 ships, 2 cruisers and 2 torpedo boats, and together they come to just over 27,000 tons. It seems odd that I could, in theory, float a major squadron since there are no limits on population.

With a population base of 0, maybe the upper limit should be about 50,000 tons max.

I also wonder if we should have a scale for education/literacy to spend IBPs on, since there needs to be a minimum standard for education otherwise a lot of big projects can't be supported by illiterate peasants.

Coyote wrote:OK, so help me out here: I have permission to build the railroad along the coast, and that'll be 313 kilometers of railway for me.

How much is that in IBPs? Is it 1 IBP = 1 km? How long does it take to build such a project? Is it like a year for every 100km or something? It'll take me about 3 years to build it, if I am allowed to round down the 13 km, which sounds about right.

I dunno, I don't think 10kms of track is worth 10,000 tons of ship, though I suppose manpower costs should be figured in. Maybe go for 1 IBP per 10 kms with a 2 or 3 year period until completion.

And once I'm done, what does that do for my Infrastructure score? How many hundreds of km of railway/road/telegraph/telephone/wireless/television/plumbing/electricity do I need to improve my Infrastructure? Are we going to just standardize them all and say it is 1 IBP=1km of wire/road/transmission range/pipe/etc?

I have no idea, so I'm telling people that if they want, they can invest some IBPs into it and I'll let them claim a boost in 2-3 years instead of 5+.

Also, I've landed a contract for major industrial machine parts work for the Sultan. How many tons of production do I need to account for before I can add something to my Economy? And if the Germans do build a base in Tel-Aviv, how much FDI is needed before I can add that to my Econ?

Let me know when you think you've done enough to get the boost and I'll give it to you. Really, I don't want to number-crunch this too much, takes away from RP.

I'm also wondering if I need to have a 2-tiered OOB. My coastline should have an Infrastructure about on par with most mid-sized European towns/cities, but the interior is still using hand-pump water, outhouses, and oil lamps in many places.

As in an OrBat reflecting your interior would be more sparsely settled and defended? Your choice. You could just have most of your troops along the coast.

I also think that the ruleset might need to be updated for Navy limits. As it stands, based purely off of Ecomics and Industry, the Yishuv can support up to 150,000 tons of Naval strength. But I have a population base of 0, with less than half a million people, many of whom are illiterate peasants. I have 4 ships, 2 cruisers and 2 torpedo boats, and together they come to just over 27,000 tons. It seems odd that I could, in theory, float a major squadron since there are no limits on population.

Frankly the game was never designed with something like the Yishuv in mind. Also your fleet could not have anything heavier than a cruiser as capital ship construction is limited to 3 NF and above. Well, I grant you could try to buy a capital ship, but I think you're too honest an RPer for that.

With a population base of 0, maybe the upper limit should be about 50,000 tons max.

You are the only Pop 0 in the game. A bit of a moot point then eh?

I also wonder if we should have a scale for education/literacy to spend IBPs on, since there needs to be a minimum standard for education otherwise a lot of big projects can't be supported by illiterate peasants.

Again, too much number-crunch.

Stas Bush wrote:I wonder if constructing high-powered electric plants of dozens of MWt should cost around a point per, say, 10 MWt? Likewise with the construction of canals, etc.

Logical.

C''mon, Steve, let him have one Goeben class. He bought it from me.

If he wants it, I'm not opposed.

And I meant NF below 3 can't build their own capital ships. They can only buy from other countries.

Gah! Please no! Don't make us calculate the cost of our own darn railways I really don't want to be joining Government Budget SImulator 2.0.

OK, sorry, I'll drop it. I was wondering how structured this was, but I agree that it is much easier to just RP everything. Believe me, if we can avoid number crunching I'm all for it.

Sometime later I'm going to split all these posts from the Queue thread.... Later, shower time now.

Coyote wrote: I also think that the ruleset might need to be updated for Navy limits. As it stands, based purely off of Ecomics and Industry, the Yishuv can support up to 150,000 tons of Naval strength. But I have a population base of 0, with less than half a million people, many of whom are illiterate peasants. I have 4 ships, 2 cruisers and 2 torpedo boats, and together they come to just over 27,000 tons. It seems odd that I could, in theory, float a major squadron since there are no limits on population.

Mercenaries?

As noted in the thread I'm figuring that the Rivas (and later Rio San Juan) canals cost points if for no other reason than because they will consume scare engineering personnel and equipment from the construction trades. I think rather than have a fixed cost/km it should be a bit of RP and a bit of number crunching. In other words 100 km of line through the central plains of the US is a hell of a lot less difficult than 100 km across the Rockies. I'd say post points and if the number or timeframe is too low then folks can request a modification.

I was thinking of making specific projects a choice. If Veg doesn't want to, then he can just say "investment of 20 IBPs in national railway projects" and I tell him how successful he's been over time.

Steve wrote:he can just say "investment of 20 IBPs in national railway projects" and I tell him how successful he's been over time.

Dun, that works. In that case I'll go for that. I already have some rough figures as to how much the USSR invested in what. Tweak it a little and I'll be cool.

loomer wrote:April, 1925, People's Republic of Afghanistan:
200 available

Army:
Infantry Weapons research, 5 points
Artillery design funding, 10 points
Force maintenance: 1 active, 2 reservists
Training of new officers, 3 points


Total: 21

You don't need that last item, and I'd prefer it if you listed your army's manpower in regards to considering maintenance costs.

Infrastructure:
National roadwork construction, 25 points
Electrical Grid for Kabul maintenance, design, and construction, 15 points
Irrigation maintenance, 5 points
Radio research and Kabul Broadcasting Agency establishment, 15 points

Total: 60

Third item is unnecessary.

Economy:
Oil exploration and drilling programs, 30 points
Gold and gem mining programs, 20 points
Media campaign to attract foreign business, 5 points

Total: 55

Third item doesn't really need reflection. Is that media campaign seriously going to take as much resources, manpower, and financial cost as building 3-4 destroyers or raising 2 and a half non-motorized infantry divisions?

Industry:
Iron ore extraction program, 30 points
Foundry advancement progress, 30 points

First item unnecessary. Arguably the second one is too.

Fortifications:
Initial fort constructions along Sheppo border (2, will decide where once I can get a look at the terrain, if that's alright), 5 points each (very slow construction, one assumes)
Russian border outpost construction, 2 points
Total: 12

Cut some of the unnecessary stuff above and you can fund an even better level of fortifications.

Remainder: 4 points

If I've buggered this up - the complete lack of focus on military is deliberate this quarter, given as I had no damn idea what I was doing in that regards and need to do a little more reading there first - feel free to tell me.

Understand if you're not sure about your military, but a lot of the stuff you listed isn't necessary. It's something your civilian economy would handly. The IBPs represent government investment into things and how much a country's industries can support such government activities. Sure, expand railroads or buy electric plants with government money... but remember the civilian economy will do the same.

I can make up a stipend for the quarter if you like, but if it's okay I'm content to RP the notion that building the railroad and updating the factories in Ashkelon are about all the Yishuv can handle right now.