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Well since I don't feel like slogging through the after-effects of nuclear war I thought I'd start this out.

First off, by all means finish up whatever in SDN World. This'll take awhile before the game gets going anyway.

So I'm curious to see who's good with this and whatever. I had a general thought on GDPs for the levels:

Imperium - 6 trillion USD
Tsardom - 4.5 trillion USD
Kingdom - 2.25 trillion USD
Principality - 1.125 trillion USD
Duchy - 0.9 trillion USD

These numbers could change. It depends on how many people want to join and how we'd balance things out. I don't mind power blocs but I'd like to see what we can do with a (somewhat) more balanced setup. Obviously groups with more nations at the higher levels would be better off, but lots of smaller nations won't be a burden anymore, as they can better contribute.

Other stats like land area will probably change, although I think they're mostly good as they are, with bringing Principality to half a Kingdom's area and a Duchy as half a Principality would work.

So post away with your thoughts!

What about the militaries? Duchies and Principalities would have to get some more hardware to compensate.

I disapprove of giving Principalities the GDP of Canada.

Give them Sweden's. 500 billion. Sweden is a major producer of rocket launchers and 4th generation fighters, they can killfuck things good and aren't pussies.

Duchies get Saudi Arabia's - 300 billion (OR Hong Kong, for 200 billion)

Principalities get Sweden - 500 billion

Kingdoms get Netherlands's GDP - 750 billion

Tsardoms get Canada - 1.4 trillion

Imperiums get twice that, Germany - 3 trillion



Game balance, mang.

PeZook wrote:What about the militaries? Duchies and Principalities would have to get some more hardware to compensate.

Oh yeah, duh, I forgot.

It could probably scale like the land mass. Half a Kingdom's hardware and so on:

Principality
Comparable armored/motorized deployment to half of British Army
75 Jet Fighters
5 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, 20 Halifax-class frigates and 5 modern diesel submarines
A fleet of patrol ships and helicopters (approx. 1/8 of USCG)

Duchy
Comparable armored/motorized deployment to one-quarter of British Army
40 Jet Fighters
2 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, 10 Halifax-class frigates and 2 modern diesel submarines
A fleet of patrol ships and helicopters (approx. 1/16 of USCG)

Oh, yeah I didn't catch that: RogueIce's proposal gives a Duchy merely 200 million less GDP than a principality, in effect giving us just a bunch of principalities

And I'll admit my giganto GDPs are based on an idea to have a more global game. In addition to the players there are various NPC "rogue states" like what Terra Libertia was, way back in the start of things. Except now there's more of them and they're a bit varied in how they operate (Some are like Somalia, others like Iran/North Korea/etc, others like the Terra Libertia of Nova Terra, and so on...)

So a more global game, and it also gives people somebody to shoot at besides the other players, if they feel a compelling need to do so.

I say Duchies get 200 billion.

Principalities stick with 500 billion.

Kingdoms get 750 bil.

Tsardoms and Imperiums get the trillions.

There will be diversity, yet no one will be a poorass shithole.

PeZook wrote:Oh, yeah I didn't catch that: RogueIce's proposal gives a Duchy merely 200 million less GDP than a principality, in effect giving us just a bunch of principalities

Whoops.

700 billion?

I don't want to inflate Duchies too much, but I don't want them to be, essentially, a burden to any alliance they're a part of like they were in the old system.

I dig Rogue's higher GDPs. This makes people able to operate on their own if they so wish, while still forcing larger players to work together if they want to accomplish, say...a Moon mission

Then follow me! We could have a system where the Duchies, the least prosperous of nations, would have proportionately more resources of something.

Duchies become prime ground for contesting territory, booming businesses and investment and shit!

EDIT:

I don't want Duchies, and every one, to be on the brink of the 1 trillion mark or something. When you go past 1 trillion and are rich... everyone is practically the same in terms of power and stuff! It's too similar already.

DIVERSIFICATION

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Then follow me! We could have a system where the Duchies, the least prosperous of nations, would have proportionately more resources of something.

Duchies become prime ground for contesting territory, booming businesses and investment and shit!

So...Duchies would get a resource bonus?

We could also space the map so that Duchies are located strategically. Say, some would be on the equator (launch complex extravaganza!) and between landmasses making them prime spots for placing missiles and/or airbases

I don't want Duchies, and every one, to be on the brink of the 1 trillion mark or something. When you go past 1 trillion and are rich... everyone is practically the same in terms of power and stuff! It's too similar already.

DIVERSIFICATION

And we could specifically request size differentials.

Some Kingdoms and Tsardoms could be TINY - like Korea. Duchies might be poor (well... 300 billion isn't THAT much) but they could be HUEG with MANY peoples - like Indonesia or something.

SWEATSHOPS!

Diversification of resources.

Depending on who joins, we could probably figure the alliances easily enough, and then try to place them in groups.

It tends to kind of make you stuck with an alliance, but ah well.

This way at least, even if someone goes with the "lolz nuke spam!" the alliances would be placed such that anyone trying it has to go through their combined air defenses, making it that much harder.

Essentially, nobody could really pick on an alliance in war, not without crazy orbital weapons and shit. So it'd either be more limited wars between powers, or proxy wars, or something to that effect. You simply couldn't hope to wipe out an alliance of any decent size.

This does tend to place a limitation on joining though. In that once the game is in-progress the world is effectively "locked"; no more player nations can join (though we could "discover" more NPC nations if there was enough interest...we have a whole planet to work with!).

A Nazi continent to invade?

The Balkanization of Shepnukistan.

We need land masses.

I would say if you want to give an incentive for people to play independent if they want, they could get some bonuses. Extra resources, a slight boost of GDP, whatever. But they have to play it straight. They can't say "I'm independent!" take the bonuses, and suddenly declare they're in an alliance two days later.

It doesn't have to be a bunch of alliances as players, after all.

One thing though, if you're gonna go independent you'd also get placed away from the "alliance masses" for example. So, even if say, three years down the line someone woos you to formal alliance membership, your defense is that much harder since you're more out in the open than a declared alliance member.

But you get some bonuses and a bit more leeway by going indepenent, so it's up to your play style.

Something to consider would be some third world areas for everyone to try and influence and have pissing contests with out it going nuclear. Any ideas how to role-play such places?

Also please make the world bigger in general with more distance between nations. Land borders could be interesting as well in some cases. More money is also good. I was always dubious of Mr. Bean’s death satellites and Sheps ridiculous nuclear aircraft given their nation's budgets and resources (not to mention availability of researchers).

Let's not get bogged down in bonuses and perks for play styles

After all, you don't get those in the real world.

Mangs I'm in.

You should give us little guys bigger countries and more cash, not too much but enough so that we matter.

Raj Ahten wrote:Something to consider would be some third world areas for everyone to try and influence and have pissing contests with out it going nuclear. Any ideas how to role-play such places?

Yeah, that's one of the things I'm looking for, really. More places like Terra Libertia. Except they don't get "resolved" as easily as TL did.

I mean, TL wasn't really three functioning countries, but it pretty rapidly went from "complete anarchist shithole" to "wait there are three power blocs now?" pretty damn quick.

Raj Ahten wrote:Also please make the world bigger in general with more distance between nations.

Yes indeed. Forgot to mention that. Lessens having nuke/bomber spam with more distance (thus you get more warning and the like, ranges are increased, etc.).

Adding that with alliance grouping it makes the whole Global War thing against the alliances a dicey proposition at best.

Independent countries are a bit more out in the wind, but nobody would want to destory them or try and force a bloodly and hugely expensive occupation because then they'd all lose the little bonus or niche service or whatever that they provide. That's their best protection.

For added hilarity, the "anarchistic undeveloped shitholes" may be...natives of the planet

Who hate the humans for displacing them

PeZook wrote:Let's not get bogged down in bonuses and perks for play styles

After all, you don't get those in the real world.

Well basically I'm trying to figure a way for independent players to not just get randomly attacked by an alliance that gets bored one day.

They could find a niche I suppose, like Sweden in our world, or Indhopal did last time. Providing some independent, neutral service to all sides, thus providing their insurance against any of the blocs bullying them...if that happens, the others would come in to protect the aforementioned service.

Or, you know...we may let politics run its course. After all, there's gonna be plenty of people pissed with assholes attacking random small countries.

You know, one way to resolve the issue would be to do a map beforehand, divide it into regions, assign all regions point values and have people compose their countries out of points (for example: you have 100 points, you can buy one 40 point territorry and spend 60 points on population and GDP, or buy two 80 point territories and only spend 20 points on development)

Me to Rogue over AIM:

The only reason the Duchies suffered in the last game was because of their financial/geographic/militaristic insignificance. If we up the GDP, but not up it to the point where they are 900billions, I think we can make them not-insignificant while still keeping them... as Duchies. Hence 300 billion GDP, Austria, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong - it's not a bad deal!

It's not so much as sheer militaristic clout as... more intangible aspects. Shroomania is different and affects shit in a more noticeable manner than... say Tian Xia, because I'm a nut. Stas affects the world differently because he's Soviet Cyberpunk, Fingolfin is a Byzantine Emperor.

Just because a Duchy is 300 billion, doesn't mean it can't make an impact. A Duchy could try becoming Dubai, making crazy architecture.

PeZook wrote:Or, you know...we may let politics run its course. After all, there's gonna be plenty of people pissed with assholes attacking random small countries.

True. At least with the upped GDPs they could also afford real defenses, so nobody can just knock them aside without any real effort (which would have happened to Duchies beforehand if anyone had cared to).

A Tsardom could go independent and not need anything special because they'd be large and (relatively) powerful enough that anyone attacking them is going to pay a far higher price than anything they'd get in return.

We could work the GDPs so Duchies can have some of that, too, though obviously not be a Big Boy. Basically, they could never hope to attack a Tsardom, but even a Tsardom would pay a good price for attack a Duchy. Or something.

PeZook wrote:You know, one way to resolve the issue would be to do a map beforehand, divide it into regions, assign all regions point values and have people compose their countries out of points (for example: you have 100 points, you can buy one 40 point territorry and spend 60 points on population and GDP, or buy two 80 point territories and only spend 20 points on development)

There is that. I think it's sort of like how other STGODs kinda do it.