Space STGOD planning.(2k9)

[The Romulan Republic]

I think we can do this. We can also solve how and when new ships arrive, by having some period of time defined as long enough to receive a batch of ships.

I believe its been suggested, but have nodes move on a fixed and predictable path, and/or within a given area. That way, you have no fixed defenses, but it doesn't really affect travel times significantly, and its possible to keep a fleet in the general vicinity of the node, just not right on top of it all the times. Note that by eliminating fixed defenses (and presuming we have cloakes), we allow piracy and espionage of other systems, which would be impossible if each node was bristling with fixed defenses.

If you all want to start a new game, may I propose a very simple set of rules, and volunteer for GM? I'd like to see another game go, given how fun they are to read.

Anyway, we'll figure out a map with jump points as we've mentioned before. But rules here, if I may propose?

PROPOSED SIMPLE RULESET

Every OOB is 1000 points navy, 500 points Army/Non-Mobile Assets.. One may rebalance that somewhat, but the conversion rate is it takes 2 points of Army to make 1 point of Navy over 1000. This allows some variety, while also promoting balance.

Fine, but what's the cost of a battleship vs a cruiser in this point system? And of course, not everyone's ships will be of equal power. How do we deal with two battleships of different strengths? Do we assign a point value to every system and weapon? Way to complicated then.

Every empire has 250 Planet Points to distribute between worlds of their empire. Each planet Point represents how much production the planet makes per build cycle, and the size of the local garrison.

Every in-game 6months-year (varies based on participation), we get a batch of new ships.

Seems reasonable.

Some combat losses will be determined partially by Formula, unless both players specifically wish a certain result to be RPed. Damage dealt will be simple like 10d(Points of Fleet)/20 * modifier. The modifier is a judged component based on RP conditions. For example, if you are surprise attacked and have your fleet at standby, the attacker gets a large bonus modifier, and a 'first strike' bonus of dealing damage first, before you can deal back. Otherwise, a mutual engagement is simultaneously resolved.

A disengaging fleet may suffer one round of half damage enemy fire to escape the enemy fleet to beyond weapon range.

A fleet with more lighter elements will have greater initiative, and have more leeway in their maneuvers should such be seen as an advantage in the judging, or to stay away or leave the system. However, a heavier fleet spreads damage over less targets. Damaged ships still operate at 100 percent capacity, and can be repaired at half the cost of replacing the unit's pointage.

That's mostly it.

Just answer me one question: if the outcome of a battle is mathematically determined, what incentive will the weaker side have to fight? The outcome will already be known, won't it? While it is true that the side with numbers has a big advantage in a conventional war, the outcome should not be determined purely by numbers.

Example simple combat:
Earthling Rocket Armada: 10x 5-point Cruisers (50 pts), vs Space Roman Navy 30x 2 point Frigates (60 pts).
The Earthlings are using new weapons gained from an ally designed against Roman ships for marginally improved effect. +10 percent effectiveness modifier.
Turn 1:
50pts Earthling Fleet Attack Roll (10d50): 221 * 1.10. >>> 12 Damage Dealt.
60pts Roman Fleet Attack Roll (10d60): 282. >>> 14 damage dealt.
Results: 2 Sunk Earthling Cruisers, 1 badly damaged. 7 Sunk Roman Frigates.

Turn 2:
36 pt Earthling Fleet (Effective 40) attack roll (10d40) : 157 * 1.10 >> 9 Dealt
46 pt Roman Fleet Attack Roll (10d46): 253 >> 13 Damage dealt
Results: 3 Sunk Earthing cruisers, one damaged. 6 Sunk Roman Frigates, 1 damaged.

Turn 3:
23 pt Earthling Fleet (Effective 25) attempts to withdraw.
39 pt Roman fleet pursues. (10d39): 198 >> 10/2 >> 5 damage dealt.

Final Battle Results:
18pt Earthling fleet withdraws from combat.
39pt Roman Fleet has a party after the decisive combat. End of combat.

(OR)

Turn 4:
Roman Fleet attempts to pursue! Roman fleet is lighter (2 pt average) vs (5 pt average). Roman ships can chase for one more turn if they roll over a 40 on a 1d100 (2/5).
Roll> 45. Roman fleet pursues!
18pt Earthling fleet (Effective 20) still attempting to with draw, but returning fire. (10d20): 85 >> 5 Damage
39pt Roman Fleet (Effective 40) chases: 255 > 13/2 > 7 damage.

Turn 5:
Roman Fleet attempts to pursue!
Roll> 32. Earthling Fleet Escapes.

Final Battle Results:
11pt Earthling Fleet remains (3 Cruisers)
34pt Roman Fleet (17 Frigates)

Naturally, this can all be RPed out for the details.

As long as the outcome is not determined purely by numbers, fine. Otherwise, I have and will continue to have serious reservations.

---

For Ground invasions, we can assume all cities/major military bases have umbrella shields that can resist bombardment for some time. So the most expedient way of attacking is by land invasion (with orbital fire support counteracted by ground batteries), or land-based strategic city busting, under the shields.

Perhaps theatre shields, rather than full planetary shields? This would allow a fleet to support a landing by clearing the area of ground-based weapons, but the key installations would have to be taken by ground assault, unless the shields were sabotauged. Of course, you could build hundreds of theatre sheilds and cover the entire planet, but it would cost you (yes I know its a lot like Star Wars).

Personally I'd go for a very simple set of rules. Something like this:

Each class of ship costs a certain number of base points, say, 50 for a cruiser, 500 for a dreadnaught, 20 for a civillian transport.

Each ship costs 1 point per x amount of payload, plus 1 per 10 megatons of firepower it can deliver, plus one for each percentage of light speed it is capable of reaching.

So to give your cruiser a speed of 90% c plus 100 megatons per volley would cost 240 points.

Each fully develloped system would give you say, 1000 points per turn (obviously these numbers would be open to negotiation).

Note that this is not a system I am proposing for serious use, as I am aware that it is very half-assed. The point is to just give some idea of what I'm aiming for, ie, a system that outlines the basic capabillities of each side, but leaves a lot of it up for rping, rather than spelling out the outcome of a battle mathematically.

[Darkevilme]

Fine, but what's the cost of a battleship vs a cruiser in this point system? And of course, not everyone's ships will be of equal power. How do we deal with two battleships of different strengths? Do we assign a point value to every system and weapon? Way to complicated then.

Whatever you want it to be. A thirty point ship is a thirty point ship no matter if you call it a Battleship, drednaught, Monarch War barge, Cruiser or Einstein's toenail.

Personally I'd go for a very simple set of rules. Something like this:

Each class of ship costs a certain number of base points, say, 50 for a cruiser, 500 for a dreadnaught, 20 for a civillian transport.

Each ship costs 1 point per x amount of payload, plus 1 per 10 megatons of firepower it can deliver, plus one for each percentage of light speed it is capable of reaching.

So to give your cruiser a speed of 90% c plus 100 megatons per volley would cost 240 points.

Each fully develloped system would give you say, 1000 points per turn (obviously these numbers would be open to negotiation).

Note that this is not a system I am proposing for serious use, as I am aware that it is very half-assed. The point is to just give some idea of what I'm aiming for, ie, a system that outlines the basic capabillities of each side, but leaves a lot of it up for rping, rather than spelling out the outcome of a battle mathematically.

Umm how about no.
We'll use a rule of thumb for cargo capacity.
a ships base point total is the sum of its defensive and offensive capability and doesnt need to be broken down like that.
Speed, if we're using my specialization is a simple number derived from the proportion of extra points spent on speed to the points spent on the ship itself (plus a default value for those who spend nothing)and you divide the distance to be covered by the speed number.
Though yes to the theater shields.

[The Romulan Republic]

Fine, but what's the cost of a battleship vs a cruiser in this point system? And of course, not everyone's ships will be of equal power. How do we deal with two battleships of different strengths? Do we assign a point value to every system and weapon? Way to complicated then.

Whatever you want it to be. A thirty point ship is a thirty point ship no matter if you call it a Battleship, drednaught, Monarch War barge, Cruiser or Einstein's toenail.

Stil doesn't adress the issues with the outcome of every fight being mathematically predetermined (irrelevancy of tactics, no incentive to fight).

Personally I'd go for a very simple set of rules. Something like this:

Each class of ship costs a certain number of base points, say, 50 for a cruiser, 500 for a dreadnaught, 20 for a civillian transport.

Each ship costs 1 point per x amount of payload, plus 1 per 10 megatons of firepower it can deliver, plus one for each percentage of light speed it is capable of reaching.

So to give your cruiser a speed of 90% c plus 100 megatons per volley would cost 240 points.

Each fully develloped system would give you say, 1000 points per turn (obviously these numbers would be open to negotiation).

Note that this is not a system I am proposing for serious use, as I am aware that it is very half-assed. The point is to just give some idea of what I'm aiming for, ie, a system that outlines the basic capabillities of each side, but leaves a lot of it up for rping, rather than spelling out the outcome of a battle mathematically.

Umm how about no.
We'll use a rule of thumb for cargo capacity.
a ships base point total is the sum of its defensive and offensive capability and doesnt need to be broken down like that.
Speed, if we're using my specialization is a simple number derived from the proportion of extra points spent on speed to the points spent on the ship itself (plus a default value for those who spend nothing)and you divide the distance to be covered by the speed number.
Though yes to the theater shields.

Like I said it was very half-assed. I'm just trying to avoid having every battle mathematically predetermined.

[Dahak]

Yah, I don't understand Dahak's objections either.

Mines, for instance. Let's say that the node has an exit that is the exceedingly small (astronomically speaking) radius of 1/4 of a light second (75,000 km). Lets also say that each mobile mine can cover a 3km x 3km x 3km area (massive for any normal macroscopic object). You would only need around 15 QUADRILLION mines to cover the area. Lets say each mine masses in at 1 metric ton. You would need to use 1/1000 the total mass of the moon, or 10 times the mass of Phobos.

If Dahak really wants to completely convert a moon to mines, with the requisite point cost that would entail, go ahead.

And really, doesn't something with heavy armour, lots of weapons and mobility already exist in the game (Dahak's mobile fortresses). I believe they are called battleships.

I don't want to build fortresses or mines, I should wanted to point out that just saying "it moves around erratically" doesn't mean it can't be protected, if you want to take the effort.
And I haven't seen numbers for the node size before, so your 0.25 light seconds is just your idea from your nether regions. Since we haven't agreed on that... If the node is only a few kilometers across (like i.e. warp points), then a defense becomes much more viable. This is why a bit more detail would be quite helpful.

[Darkevilme]

Yah, I don't understand Dahak's objections either.

Mines, for instance. Let's say that the node has an exit that is the exceedingly small (astronomically speaking) radius of 1/4 of a light second (75,000 km). Lets also say that each mobile mine can cover a 3km x 3km x 3km area (massive for any normal macroscopic object). You would only need around 15 QUADRILLION mines to cover the area. Lets say each mine masses in at 1 metric ton. You would need to use 1/1000 the total mass of the moon, or 10 times the mass of Phobos.

If Dahak really wants to completely convert a moon to mines, with the requisite point cost that would entail, go ahead.

And really, doesn't something with heavy armour, lots of weapons and mobility already exist in the game (Dahak's mobile fortresses). I believe they are called battleships.

I don't want to build fortresses or mines, I should wanted to point out that just saying "it moves around erratically" doesn't mean it can't be protected, if you want to take the effort.
And I haven't seen numbers for the node size before, so your 0.25 light seconds is just your idea from your nether regions. Since we haven't agreed on that... If the node is only a few kilometers across (like i.e. warp points), then a defense becomes much more viable. This is why a bit more detail would be quite helpful.

On node size i'm of the opinion that it should be big enough that you're not always in knife fighting range of anyone trying to be on station at it when you arrive. So Dark Hellion's number sounds like a good starting point.

And yes Dahak, you could blockade a node with a fleet in wartime. It wouldnt be a routine thing unless you're paranoid as all hell (fuel consumption) and the worry is what if the enemy use a different node and outmanouver you. The erratic thing just means that in general a 'starfortress' with enough thrust to keep on station at a node is practically a battleship and anyone heading to the node goes to where it's going to be within a margin of error.

And Romulan, the answer to a problem of numbers dictating the course of battles probably does not lie down the road of more numbers.

As an addendum i dont think we should have any dead end systems with only one node connection, two minimum.

[The Romulan Republic]

On node size i'm of the opinion that it should be big enough that you're not always in knife fighting range of anyone trying to be on station at it when you arrive. So Dark Hellion's number sounds like a good starting point.

And yes Dahak, you could blockade a node with a fleet in wartime. It wouldnt be a routine thing unless you're paranoid as all hell (fuel consumption) and the worry is what if the enemy use a different node and outmanouver you. The erratic thing just means that in general a 'starfortress' with enough thrust to keep on station at a node is practically a battleship and anyone heading to the node goes to where it's going to be within a margin of error.

So we will have multiple nodes in a system? That'll make it a lot harder to beseige a system, or seal one's boarders. No further comment as of yet, I can see advantages and disadvantages to this approach.

And Romulan, the answer to a problem of numbers dictating the course of battles probably does not lie down the road of more numbers.

I agree. I'm just trying to figure out a solution, and I'm rather inexperienced at this sort of thing. I just want to make sure that tactics have some bearing on the outcome of a battle.

Two more questions: will we have cloaking tech, and will we have neutral systems? Otherwise, even with multiple, mobile nodes, it'll be hard to spy on/raid an enemy's territory without being intercepted pretty fast. Neutral systems have other advantages as well. First, they allow things like proxy wars and exploration. Second, they allow colonization, which could be hard to impliment, but which also allows some powers to grow stronger than others over time through expansion, and might resolve the risk of any war between players automatically crippling both parties. Having neutral territory could generate some interesting Cold War-type situations, and allow for more conflict that doesn't nessisarily lead to total war.

[Darkevilme]

I agree. I'm just trying to figure out a solution, and I'm rather inexperienced at this sort of thing. I just want to make sure that tactics have some bearing on the outcome of a battle.

Two more questions: will we have cloaking tech, and will we have neutral systems? Otherwise, even with multiple, mobile nodes, it'll be hard to spy on/raid an enemy's territory without being intercepted pretty fast. Neutral systems have other advantages as well. First, they allow things like proxy wars and exploration. Second, they allow colonization, which could be hard to impliment, but which also allows some powers to grow stronger than others over time through expansion, and might resolve the risk of any war between players automatically crippling both parties. Having neutral territory could generate some interesting Cold War-type situations, and allow for more conflict that doesn't nessisarily lead to total war.

Stealth of some sort for surprise attacks and skullduggery should be available. Otherwise you'll always see ships hours before they get into combat range, whether this stealth should be universal at a low level is a good question. On the one hand it means you wouldnt be aware of every ship in the system and on the other its a very space opera ish thing to apply universally.

[Ohma]

Stealth of some sort for surprise attacks and skullduggery should be available. Otherwise you'll always see ships hours before they get into combat range, whether this stealth should be universal at a low level is a good question. On the one hand it means you wouldnt be aware of every ship in the system and on the other its a very space opera ish thing to apply universally.

Well, I'd be fine with just saying that this universe is fairly space operatic and leaving it at that. I don't think a semi-hard sci-fi civ would really seem all that out of place in a space operatic setting...at least nowhere near as out of place as a soft sci-fi civ in a hard sci-fi setting.

[Nephtys]

It's not entirely mathematically dependant. I mentioned modifiers being factored in for tactics, as based on a judged GM basis. How else can we tell if your crazy plan of hiding in a planet's ring makes better sense than their plan to use decoy drones or whatever.

Note in my example, two relatively comparable navies (50pts with slight tactics bonus) vs 60 points, resulted in a pretty decent victory for the 60 pointer (11 survivors vs 34). This could turn around just as easilly.

If your tactics are good enough that you should win the battle, then a small force can defeat larger enemy forces.

As for ship pointages, your 100 point Single-Pilot Super Robot is equivilent to my 100 point Super Turbo Triangle Dreadnaught. Keeps it simple, really.

[Nephtys]

For Stealth ships, how about a Stealth Ship costs twice as much as it's hull. Thus, a stealth 2 point destroyer costs 4 points, but only fights like a 2 pointer.

An entirely stealth fleet can jump an enemy that doesn't expect them (IE, has no IC warning) and gains a first strike bonus, and the ability to disengage at some bonus. Also, they may perform perhaps anonymous maneuvers, such as attacking a neutral party and leaving no survivors, so the GM can post the attacker's info, thus allowing some cloak/daggery stuff, without spoiling the details.

[The Romulan Republic]

Perhaps someone could write up the rules thus far. I'm losing track.

[Dahak]

I would say that we should have a small rough set of rules, a rough idea what the universe is, tech level, mods, and then each makes a (preliminary) OOB, and we should start something fairly quickly, 2 weeks at the maximum (something like the "classic" diplomatic summit, or somesuch).
It gets people involved and each can play around with his race, get a feel for the others, so no one gets bored or drops out while some details or rules or whatever are discussed to death (should it happen). And, as it happened, sometimes the game starts from there...

[Darkevilme]

I'll try and collate the rules so Dahak's idea can go ahead.

OOB purchasing budget.
1000 points for space ships
500 points for planetary forces
250 industry points to be allocated amongst your holdings to represent their importance, basic defences and production output.

*Commentary: Are we going with the 1/5 upkeep rule and if so does that apply to the army as well? in which case you wont be able to afford the upkeep cost for your initial purchases as that comes to 300 points a turn and industrial output is only 250.

Special ship rules:(assuming people agree to them)
My engine rules:(which hopefully arent too abuseable)
Ships default speed is 1
Increasing a ships speed by 0.5 multiplies its cost by 1.1
increasing a ships speed by 1 multiplies its cost by 1.3
Nephtys's stealth rules:
Stealthing a ship fully doubles its cost (though not combat value of course)

*Commentary: I'm wondering whether there should be a 'half stealth' level for those who want it, though it may cause arguements.

Combat: Fleet strengths can be used for rolling dice of damage or as a baseline for rping it.
Current dice roll for damage per exchange is a roll of 10d(base value of fleet)/20*tactics/rping/funky gadget modifier.

The known universe:
FTL:
The only way to exceed lightspeed is to use the nodes that meander around the outer part of each starsystem. A node is an area of space somewhere under a light second across that is linked to another node around another star, using a node drive allows instantaneous travel between the two linked spaces. Nodes are always on the move for reasons unknown, swaying across a large area in mostly predictable patterns though ones that make keeping on station at them a tiresome chore for spacecraft. Most vessels simply fly to intercept the node when they want to transit.

Communications:
No FTL radio has been developed so the only way to get a message from star to star in a timely fashion is to use either com drones, essentially a communications laser riding a node drive and fast rocket, or courier ships to send messages either in a bucket brigade fashion for the drones or travelling all the way in the case of couriers when more than one node must be crossed.

Planetary defences:
All major military bases and cities except on the most backwater worlds usually have theater shields to resist orbital bombardment.

Tech level: Think Startrek or below, weapon yields are in the megaton range.

History: Earth is lost to humanity, the planet of their birth from which they spread was unique in being linked to the galaxy by but a single node which has tragically vanished leaving the planet unreacheable by anyone. When this happened the humans had lost the united nations as a medium to discuss their differences and some turned their suspicious eye to the alien races they'd encountered. To defuse this situation a recently discovered and collossal space station hidden in an otherwise unimportant but centrally located star system was renovated hastily to act as a new neutral conference open to all races and human kind.

*Commentary:If anyone wants to add to the history and comment feel free, the plot is a little bland at the moment if someone wants to spice it up.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'll try and collate the rules so Dahak's idea can go ahead.

OOB purchasing budget.
1000 points for space ships
500 points for planetary forces
250 industry points to be allocated amongst your holdings to represent their importance, basic defences and production output.

I hate to nitpick, but is this tied to the number of planets or systems you have? If so, how much is a fully developed system worth?

*Commentary: Are we going with the 1/5 upkeep rule and if so does that apply to the army as well? in which case you wont be able to afford the upkeep cost for your initial purchases as that comes to 300 points a turn and industrial output is only 250.

It would seem to me self-evident that the numbers should probably be adjusted, either by raising the total number of points, or by lowering upkeep costs, or whatever. And yes, armies should cost upkeep.

Special ship rules:(assuming people agree to them)
My engine rules:(which hopefully arent too abuseable)
Ships default speed is 1
Increasing a ships speed by 0.5 multiplies its cost by 1.1
increasing a ships speed by 1 multiplies its cost by 1.3
Nephtys's stealth rules:
Stealthing a ship fully doubles its cost (though not combat value of course)

Seems ok. Though stealth is a bit pricy.

*Commentary: I'm wondering whether there should be a 'half stealth' level for those who want it, though it may cause arguements.

Nah, try to keep this simple.

Combat: Fleet strengths can be used for rolling dice of damage or as a baseline for rping it.
Current dice roll for damage per exchange is a roll of 10d(base value of fleet)/20*tactics/rping/funky gadget modifier.

I'm glad you included both dice-rolling and rping as sepperate options, and I'd personally prefer the latter, since tactics do matter. In the event of a dispute, however, we need a reasonably impartial moderator to determine the outcome, be it through dice-role or simply by using their judgement.

The known universe:
FTL:
The only way to exceed lightspeed is to use the nodes that meander around the outer part of each starsystem. A node is an area of space somewhere under a light second across that is linked to another node around another star, using a node drive allows instantaneous travel between the two linked spaces. Nodes are always on the move for reasons unknown, swaying across a large area in mostly predictable patterns though ones that make keeping on station at them a tiresome chore for spacecraft. Most vessels simply fly to intercept the node when they want to transit.

I have two questions: will their be neutral and/or unoccupied systems, and will use of a node be detectable to someone on the other side (ie, are complete suprise attacks possible through a node)?

Communications:
No FTL radio has been developed so the only way to get a message from star to star in a timely fashion is to use either com drones, essentially a communications laser riding a node drive and fast rocket, or courier ships to send messages either in a bucket brigade fashion for the drones or travelling all the way in the case of couriers when more than one node must be crossed.

Could make comunications a bit awkward, especially if a player pulls some stunt like sealing their boarders.

Planetary defences:
All major military bases and cities except on the most backwater worlds usually have theater shields to resist orbital bombardment.

Should theatre shields have a cost? Say, 1 point for a 100 km shield? This way, players could choose to more thoroughly protect their worlds at the expense of their other assets, or they could leave themselves more open to a quick strike in exchange for other weapons/units. Note I am reluctant to add another rule, but I think this one might be ok.

Tech level: Think Startrek or below, weapon yields are in the megaton range.

History: Earth is lost to humanity, the planet of their birth from which they spread was unique in being linked to the galaxy by but a single node which has tragically vanished leaving the planet unreacheable by anyone. When this happened the humans had lost the united nations as a medium to discuss their differences and some turned their suspicious eye to the alien races they'd encountered. To defuse this situation a recently discovered and collossal space station hidden in an otherwise unimportant but centrally located star system was renovated hastily to act as a new neutral conference open to all races and human kind.

All good.

*Commentary:If anyone wants to add to the history and comment feel free, the plot is a little bland at the moment if someone wants to spice it up.

I can try to write something up and submit it for your approval via PM, if you like.

[Darkevilme]

The known universe:
FTL:
The only way to exceed lightspeed is to use the nodes that meander around the outer part of each starsystem. A node is an area of space somewhere under a light second across that is linked to another node around another star, using a node drive allows instantaneous travel between the two linked spaces. Nodes are always on the move for reasons unknown, swaying across a large area in mostly predictable patterns though ones that make keeping on station at them a tiresome chore for spacecraft. Most vessels simply fly to intercept the node when they want to transit.

I have two questions: will their be neutral and/or unoccupied systems, and will use of a node be detectable to someone on the other side (ie, are complete suprise attacks possible through a node)?

Node use is instant so detecting it as it happens wont be terribly useful. I'll leave it to someone else to decide on neutral systems, i'm inclined to believe they shouldnt be very common if they're around. I'm also of the opinion that nodes shouldnt create any inherent energy emmissions when used, so stealth ships can work.

Communications:
No FTL radio has been developed so the only way to get a message from star to star in a timely fashion is to use either com drones, essentially a communications laser riding a node drive and fast rocket, or courier ships to send messages either in a bucket brigade fashion for the drones or travelling all the way in the case of couriers when more than one node must be crossed.

Could make comunications a bit awkward, especially if a player pulls some stunt like sealing their boarders.

No one is going to shoot com drones on sight though are they?

Planetary defences:
All major military bases and cities except on the most backwater worlds usually have theater shields to resist orbital bombardment.

Should theatre shields have a cost? Say, 1 point for a 100 km shield? This way, players could choose to more thoroughly protect their worlds at the expense of their other assets, or they could leave themselves more open to a quick strike in exchange for other weapons/units. Note I am reluctant to add another rule, but I think this one might be ok.

The shields are pretty vital as they stop bombardment with impunity from happening. So they should be free for every major military base and city. Though you'll never have so many shielded bases and cities that the enemy cant blast a beach head for their invading armies.

Tech level: Think Startrek or below, weapon yields are in the megaton range.

History: Earth is lost to humanity, the planet of their birth from which they spread was unique in being linked to the galaxy by but a single node which has tragically vanished leaving the planet unreacheable by anyone. When this happened the humans had lost the united nations as a medium to discuss their differences and some turned their suspicious eye to the alien races they'd encountered. To defuse this situation a recently discovered and collossal space station hidden in an otherwise unimportant but centrally located star system was renovated hastily to act as a new neutral conference open to all races and human kind.

All good.

*Commentary:If anyone wants to add to the history and comment feel free, the plot is a little bland at the moment if someone wants to spice it up.

I can try to write something up and submit it for your approval via PM, if you like.

Go ahead, though submit it here for the approval of the group.

[The Romulan Republic]

Node use is instant so detecting it as it happens wont be terribly useful. I'll leave it to someone else to decide on neutral systems, i'm inclined to believe they shouldnt be very common if they're around. I'm also of the opinion that nodes shouldnt create any inherent energy emmissions when used, so stealth ships can work.

Well this diplomatic space station you mentioned is obviously going to be in a neutral system. Perhaps we could have a few others, or not. I understand their are concerns about implimenting colonization, but I don't think we need to worry. At this level of tech, wouldn't it probably take longer to get a coloney up and running than the game is likely to go on for? Just asking.

As for detecting ships going through a node, cloaks would still prevent detection of a fleet's numbers, or its manuvers once it came through. It would just prevent someone from coming right up to a major planet undetected and glassing every non-shielded bit of the surface, or hurling an asteroid at it or something. But either way is cool. Having undetectable fleets makes one a lot more vulnerable to a suprise, and it makes strategic deterents more important. I'm getting a sort of Cold War image here, and I like it.

No one is going to shoot com drones on sight though are they?

Point taken, though you never know. Someone's bound to play xenophobic warmonger. But probably not more than one or two. And after all, completely shutting yourself off is almost tantamount to not playing.

The shields are pretty vital as they stop bombardment with impunity from happening. So they should be free for every major military base and city. Though you'll never have so many shielded bases and cities that the enemy cant blast a beach head for their invading armies.

Seems reasonable. I was thinking that having sheilds cost more would allow players to choose weather to prioritized defensive or offensive capabillities and stuff like that, but some level of sheilding is pretty vital, and its not a big deal either way.

Go ahead, though submit it here for the approval of the group.

Will do. I'll try to have something up tonight, tomorrow at the latest since I'm a little busy.

[Darkevilme]

Neutral systems would provide a good thing for nations to argue about without breaking into open war with eachother. And the fact that they wont be providing any in game industrial output for many years means they're not unbalancing like colonization in 2k8 II.

Lets also either halve maintenance or double the amount of industrial points. With the latter people will be more likely to risk ships as it gives you more ability to replace losses.

[The Romulan Republic]

Neutral systems would provide a good thing for nations to argue about without breaking into open war with eachother. And the fact that they wont be providing any in game industrial output for many years means they're not unbalancing like colonization in 2k8 II.

Cool.

Lets also either halve maintenance or double the amount of industrial points. With the latter people will be more likely to risk ships as it gives you more ability to replace losses.

Whatever makes for this most interesting story/game.

I'm going to go jot down some ideas for backstory right now, which I'll try to post in a few hours.

[Nephtys]

I suggest for simplicity we do not have maintenance. Your production value is simply how many new ships you get per cycle. However, being in a war (and taking losses) means next cycle you'll get more to represent ramping up for a war economy. I think that'd be the simplest way that also doesn't penalize someone from losing ships, but at the same time allows for attrition as you wait for more to be made. If it lasts long enough, we can implement weariness when production slows after a period.

[Cycloneman]

Why not go with Earth (and Sol, perhaps?) being completely annihilated by some foreign/local superweapon instead? I'd think that people would still be able to (and would certainly try to) contact Earth, albeit really, really slowly, even without it having a node. Wouldn't one of the first things folks would do is try to fly over there with unmanned ships/cryogenically suspended folks, and can't you still send normal-spectrum communications (albeit, again, REALLY SLOWLY), et cetera? I mean, you send a ship to Alpha Centauri and go 50% of light speed towards Earth, you can hit Earth inside nine years, with a round trip that maxes out below eighteen. Not very useful for trade, sure, but the system still exists.

[Ohma]

Wouldn't one of the first things folks would do is try to fly over there with unmanned ships/cryogenically suspended folks, and can't you still send normal-spectrum communications (albeit, again, REALLY SLOWLY), et cetera? I mean, you send a ship to Alpha Centauri and go 50% of light speed towards Earth, you can hit Earth inside nine years, with a round trip that maxes out below eighteen. Not very useful for trade, sure, but the system still exists.

Well, it could be that the nodes between systems don't correspond to whatever is nearby, rather, each node connects to another system that could very well be hundreds of light years away from the nearest star to your home system (because...quantum?). Additionally, if the sudden disappearance of nodes in our local hypercontrivancespace network was not limited to links to Sol, it could (potentially) account for the relatively small sizes of our civs (what with our local map being all that we can access currently).

Sort of like a sector of space being cut off by warp storms in Warhammer 40k...but less understood by our civs?

EDIT: This could also help explain why many of the governments are so eager (at least publicly) to play ball with everyone else. Nobody knows when or if any of the nodes back to the parent civs might be restored and allow some or all of the civs in this sector to call in reinforcements.

[The Romulan Republic]

Here's my attempt at a backstory. Hope its ok.

"In the wake of the Global Collapse, the nations of the Earth began the long struggle to rebuild. The devestation was not complete, but lacking resources, the governments of Earth turned to the off-world collonies for aid. The collonies grew rich and powerful, spreading across the Solar System in the search for resources to exploit, and establishing new settlements in their wake. Consequently, it was inevitable that humanity would, sooner or later, discover the nodes.

The nodes were apparently natural phenomina moving on the edges of many star systems, which linked one system to another across the interstellar void, allowing instantaneous travel across hundreds or thousands of lightyears. At first they were difficult to exploit, as they moved around the edges of their solar systems, but eventually their courses became predictable, and humanity had the means to reliably travel to other stars. As human expeditions explored new worlds around far-off suns, they eventually encountered other forms of intelligent life. Some contacts were peaceful, and others were not. As more permanent, self-sufficient, and far-reaching collonies were established, some broke away to form their own, independant nations across the stars.

And then it happened: the sole node connecting Earth to the rest of the Universe disapeared. In an instant, the far-flung human colonies were cut off from the home world by the vast reaches of space. Paranoia was rife, as the human governments pointed fingers at each other and at the alien factions around them. In an effort to stave off a multi-sided interstellar war and develope new diplomatic relationships in the vacume created by the absense of Earth, a number of governments agreed to meet in a barren, neutral system aboard a once-derelict space station of unknown origins..."

(Use this or not as you wish. Personally I feel it could use some fine-tuning before we start this off, so if you all like it I'll make some improvements for the final version in the official thread).

[Ohma]

Well, I took your premise 'Republic, and put my own spin on it. So, feedback on both would probably be good.

It was only a matter of time before the people of Sol discovered the nodes.

The nodes, natural phenomena moving on the edges of many star systems, allowed instantaneous travel across hundreds or thousands of light years. At first they were difficult to exploit, as they moved around the edges of their solar systems, but eventually their courses became predictable, and humanity had the means to reliably travel to other stars. As human expeditions explored new worlds around far-off suns.

In the period of rapid expansion that followed, humanity encountered other species. Some of the species contacted were peaceful, content to deal with humanity as equals, others were, not as peaceful.

One day, everything changed. In an instant, the star systems of the known galaxy were cut off from each other. For years, the nodes ceased to function. When the nodes finally reestablished themselves, they had changed. Many times, the first travelers through the now stable nodes found themselves in different star systems from the ones which had been linked to before.

In one sector of the previously known galaxy, an area of space which had seen fairly few changes post-catastrophe, the inhabitants found themselves completely cut off from their former governments.

Paranoia was rife, as the myriad governments present pointed fingers at, or fought each other. In an effort to stave off a potentially self destructive interstellar war, and develop new diplomatic relationships in the vacuum created by the absence of any links to the outside universe, a number of governments agreed to meet in a barren, neutral system aboard a once-derelict space station of unknown origins...

It was a dangerous place, but we accepted the risks because it was our last, best chance for peace.

The year is 2XXX, the place, Babylon 5-err-STGOD 2K9!

EDIT: huh...I wonder what happened to that sentence between me copying it and pasting it...

[Darkevilme]

Personally i prefer Romulan's approach. If Ohma wants to play the disconnected fragment of some vast empire or such that's okay but it's not going to suit everyone.

[Ohma]

Personally i prefer Romulan's approach. If Ohma wants to play the disconnected fragment of some vast empire or such that's okay but it's not going to suit everyone.

Shiny, 'Romulen's premise works for me too. (in fact, better in a few ways than mine...)