Pre-industrial Fantasy STGOD OOC/Rules Thread:

[Aasharu]

A Traveler’s Guide to the Various Varieties of Undead Dwelling upon the Tarn Plateau

Ghouls: Ghouls tend to form into small nomadic tribes that wander the throughout the wastes of Tarn. By ancient custom, ghouls will never act as the initial aggressor in any conflict; however, given their carnivorous nature, they frequently attempt to startle or frighten an unwary traveler into attacking them. If one can remain calm and avoid attacking on site, ghoul tribes can be bargained with to aid travelers. A ghoul that breaks their customs is branded a Ghast, a feral ghoul, and are exiled from the tribe. Most ghasts do indeed go feral, usually within months, and lone ghasts wandering the wastes are a semi-regular nuisance.

Vampires: There are fourteen vampiric barons in Tarn, and each baron has a brood of between five to fifteen lesser vampires beneath them. Most of the vampire barons lay claim to at least one successful mine in their territory; the five that don’t still have several large, labyrinthine cavern systems within their territory. These caverns and mines are home to Morlocks, degenerate human tribes that have been breed over millennia to serve as a source of blood for the vampire broods. Morlocks breed slowly, however, so the vampire barons guard their morlock herds jealously. The vampiric barons can generally be counted on to act civilly; but for every brood of civilized vampires, there is likely ten flocks of feral vampires roaming the wastes. Between one hundred to one hundred fifty feral flocks prowl the wastelands at night, and they are among the most dangerous threats to any living traveler.

Deathknights: A rare form of undead, they come about whenever a holy warrior falls from grace at the moment of their death. The specific religion does not matter; the spiritual gap left behind draws necromantic energy in, animating the fallen warrior as a Deathknight. No more than a dozen death knights currently dwell within Tarn, and all have established fortresses upon the edges of the Tarnish plateau. The Deathknight lords generally go by the title of General, rather than Baron, and they command the bulk of Tarn’s standing military forces.

Liches: Given the fact that Tarn is ruled by a Triumvirate of liches, it should come as no surprise that there are more Lich Barons then any others. Twenty Archliches, as they have taken to calling themselves in the last half a millennia, claim territories throughout the wastes. Each archlich baron will generally have several lesser liches dwelling within their domains. Many spellcasters aspiring towards lichdom frequently find themselves living and studying in Sanctuary; thus, the number of liches in Tarn is likely to increase in the foreseeable future. Fortunately, most tend to be wrapped up in studying this or that arcane field – obsessive compulsive attention to a current topic of research is a common trait among liches. Thus, if you have no connection to a given lich’s current research, traveling through their territory is generally a painless process. If, however, you do have a connection…

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm thinking my army/navy is going to need some anti-magic ordnance. Hmm, we already found a gunpowder additive that cancels the weight-lifting enchantment, that sounds like a good starting point.

In my current story posts an Ohioan officer falls back on one of the old mythological standbys for that purpose, but it isn't standard issue.

Congratulations, E_F! You may have found something that Orion and Ohio can agree to cooperate on!

(seriously, it'd be that, or a canal, and there is only one place where it would make sense for us to cooperate on a canal).

I can get behind cooperating on anti-magic weapons, even if the Orion scientists will be rather condescending to their Ohioan counterparts

On that note, can we establish how effective muskets/cannon shot and such will be against various non-human creatures? For instance, can the vampires in Tarn be killed by enough musket fire or do they require stakes to the heart? Are they vulnerable to sunlight/bright lights etc? What about ghouls?

Presumably the Hyenorcs will die to massed musket volleys if enough shot is fired

[Aasharu]

Vampires can be killed by sunlight specifically, decapitation, or destruction of the heart. Ghouls are basically fast, intelligent animate corpses that feed on human flesh - basically think fastzombies with Jurassic Park raptor pack hunting tendencies. They die to dismemberment same as any animate corpse - in fact, I'm thinking decapitation is generally effective on all forms of undead, barring extreme contingencies.

[Simon_Jester]

Jub, in the next iteration of the map, how about you just call my country "Ohio?" That way, the name will fit inside the national borders.

[looks at Aasharu's post]

Hm. One notes that the presence of large numbers of ghasts wandering around gives the ghouls a frightening amount of plausible deniability.

If you don't mind, I'd like to suggest that a number of those Death Knights are Ohioans; they have actual holy warriors in the present day, used to have more, and circumstances sometimes lead them to create temporary ones as a field expedient (again, this will become more clear after I do some story posts).

[looks at Eternal Freedom's post]

[Ohioan scholar-mage] Condescend away. The living stars are, quite literally, above your mockery.[/Ohioan]

I suspect that the effectiveness of firearms varies wildly. Anything humanoid is probably vulnerable to bullets. Gigantic beasts are probably about as vulnerable as their sheer physical size and bulk would lead you to think. As an example, the grizzly bear was first observed by the Lewis and Clark expedition in 1805. Lewis recorded that the grizzly was a "most tremendous looking animal, and extreemly hard to kill," while Clark considered it "verry large and a turrible looking animal." All questions of spelling aside, it had to be shot ten times before it died, although I have no doubt it was wounded and weakened before that point.

A grizzly weighs about 600-700 pounds.

Elephant-sized monsters would be even harder to kill, especially if they are trained war beasts or magically controlled. So we could easily be looking at monstrous threats capable of matching, on point value, a company or even battalion-sized force of infantry.

This is the kind of application for which your artillerymancy would be helpful; a 12pdr swivel gun on a cart would be a very handy thing to have for things like this.

[Aasharu]

[looks at Aasharu's post]

Hm. One notes that the presence of large numbers of ghasts wandering around gives the ghouls a frightening amount of plausible deniability.

If you don't mind, I'd like to suggest that a number of those Death Knights are Ohioans; they have actual holy warriors in the present day, used to have more, and circumstances sometimes lead them to create temporary ones as a field expedient (again, this will become more clear after I do some story posts)

Even if you've dealt with ghouls for safe passage, you should never turn your back to them, and make sure you're never alone with one. They only get exiled if they're caught, after all.

Given that your faction is currently the most religious faction on the continent, I figured many of the current deathknights would be Ohioan. Most Ohioan deathknights have their fortress at the northern and western borders; I imagine several harbor dreams of conquest and/or revenge towards their home nation, and they are likely still spoken of in tales of terror throughout Ohio.

[Simon_Jester]

[Grins]

That's what we get for creating ad-hoc field-expedient paladins. Lousy quality control. Scary skeleton-looking warlords with a grudge for all the mean things we said three hundred years ago.

Though I imagine some of the former death knights are Ohioan, too.

[cracks knuckles, grins a bit more broadly]

I don't know if you've ever read Horatius at the Bridge, but a particular passage comes to my mind. For reference, Sextus is a Roman traitor ensconced in the attacking Etruscan army that Horatius and his friends are halting by holding the aforementioned bridge.

Yet one man for one moment
Strode out before the crowd;
Well known was he to all the three,
And they gave him greeting loud: 430
“Now welcome, welcome, Sextus!
Now welcome to thy home!
Why dost thou stay, and turn away?
Here lies the road to Rome.”

Thrice looked he at the city; 435
Thrice looked he at the dead:
And thrice came on in fury,
And thrice turned back in dread;
And, white with fear and hatred,
Scowled at the narrow way 440
Where, wallowing in a pool of blood,
The bravest Tuscans lay.

Homecomings can be so complicated.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Drum roll please....presenting A Brief Summary of the Empire of Orion:

The Empire has existed in several forms for nearly three thousand years, though there have been four periods of anarchy and civil war that broke this chain of rulers. In its current form (technically known as the Fifth Orion Empire) the Empire has existed and thrived for just over seven hundred years, forming the longest stretch of stability in its history.

Ruled by an Emperor with near-absolute authority, there have been great drives in the last century to make the Empire more equal for its citizens. Whilst universal democracy is still centuries away, a genuine meritocracy has emerged in the last few decades, where the situation of one’s birth has no bearing on how well they will succeed in a given career.

In its distant past, the Empire was a caste-based society, comprising the Elites (the Emperor, their court and the nobility), the Warriors, the Mages, the Philosophers and the Commoners. However, even in this structure there was a degree of freedom; those born in other castes that demonstrated Mage abilities would be taken to join that caste, those that volunteered to fight would join the Warriors and (generally) be treated no different than caste-born soldiers.

This structure directly led to both the First Interregnum and the Empires current attitude to magic. Four hundred years after the Empire was founded, the Mage caste attempted to overthrow the Elites and turn the Empire into a mageocracy. Civil war ensued as the Philosophers and the Warriors sided against the Mages, though their abilities allowed them to draw out the fight for over twenty years before finally being defeated. The caste system was abolished with the founding of the Second Empire. Anyone displaying non-approved Mage abilities was incarcerated, stripped of any titles or inheritance and generally viewed with hatred. Magic clearly was too powerful to be controlled by the Empire.

So began a 2600 year old edict. “Magic” was no longer allowed. Even in these early days, religions, in the sense of following gods or demons, had largely disappeared. There was no need to take higher powers on faith as they could be directly and repeatedly observed. Thus, Magic as a concept was banished from the Empire. The term Mage still endures for describing those who display such abilities, but they are never described as magic, merely “advanced mental powers.”

In the time since then, the Empire’s philosophers have striven to understand what these mental abilities are, how they act and how they can be defined, controlled and negated. In that area they have made great strides: the officially sanctioned abilities have helped make the Empire one of the strongest known nations.

At present, officially-sanctioned powers are classified as Telepathy (long-distance communication, used to control the Empire, coordinate its military and so forth), Interromancy (using Telepathy to root out secrets from those unwilling to cooperate), Technomancy (reducing apparent weight of ships and guns, for example) and Psychomancy (creating a near-unbreakable spirit de corps in soldiers and sailors, making Orion troops appear terrifying to enemies etc). Interromancy and Psychomancy are considered to be specialised subsets of Telepathy. In the last census, just shy of one-fifth of the Empires twelve million inhabitants demonstrated Telepathic abilities of one form or another. Technomancy is rarer, though Orion scientists have been undertaking a breeding program in the last fifty years to raise the number of available Technomancers. By law, any child must be inspected by an Interromancer before their fifth birthday to determine what, if any abilities are present.

The Empire holds a dim view of nations which view such abilities as “magic” though this has not stopped trade and even alliances being made in the past. Such nations are held to be primitive, superstitious and backwards. The Empire’s attitude to non-human or outright “magical” beings is even colder. The Empire’s scientific advances, size and power have bred a considerable arrogance in the nation’s rulers, believing Orion to be the best hope of humanity and the only way for the species to survive and prosper.

Today, the Empire controls a vast swathe of territory, much of it with a temperate climate ideal for farming and forestry. It is centred around the capital, Hephaestus, which hosts not only the Imperial Palace but also the Orion Academy, quite possibly the finest seat of learning in existence. It contains a library that has existed since the very founding of the First Empire 3,000 years ago, with documents and parchments chronicling every event and discovery known to its scholars.

On the shores of the Great Atlantic Ocean lies Port Rigel, one of th finest natural harbours known. It serves as the primary base of the Imperial Navy as well as a hub for coastal trade and fishing. Towards the south-east lies the military city of Bellatrix, the primary base for the Imperial Guard. In the far east is the smaller port of Saiph, whilst in the Northern ice Wastes lies the city of Fenris, a major centre for Imperial administration.

The Imperial Military is divided into four sections: The Imperial Guard (the foot soldiers, cavalry and artillery of the Empire), the Imperial Navy, the Royal Marines (light infantry assigned to naval ships and amphibious operations, was only recently made a separate section) and finally the Praetorians, fanatically loyal and ruthlessly effective guardians of the Emperor and their Court.

The Imperial Guard operates in a regimental system, currently standing at ten Regiments each of approximately 5,000 men. Each Regiment is intended to be self-contained, and features a mix of infantry, cavalry and artillery. Vitally important to this is the incorporation of Psychomancers into the unit structure. Every infantry company, cavalry troop and artillery battery has at least two attached Psychomancers, one of them to bolster the troops morale and weaken the enemy’s and the other to stay in telepathic contact with other units as well as Battalion and Regimental commanders. A Regiment is divided into six Battalions of 800 men and an HQ section. Typically this will be two Line Infantry Battalions, a Shock Infantry Battalion, two Cavalry Battalions and a Support Battalion, comprising combat engineers and artillery batteries.

The Imperial Guard makes considerable use of Technomancy like the Navy does, though with more emphasis on the artillery guns than on individual soldiers equipment. For instance, the most common field gun in use is the Techomancy-enhanced 36 pdr, whilst smaller guns are used as defences for mobile units against threats; carts and wagons will often mount a 24-pounder Techomantic carronade or swivel-gun for close-range punch. As with the Navy, gunlocks are fitted to all weapons, making them considerably more accurate than older weapons using linstocks.

The Imperial Navy currently boasts no less than thirty-six ships of the Line, with four of those being 100-gun three-decked ships and the other thirty two being faster 74-gun two-deckers. These heavy ships typically operate in four Fleets, comprising eight two deckers and a three-decked flagship. Additionally, there are currently some forty-five 36-gun frigates and assorted smaller sloops.

Navy ships make heavy use of Technomancy in their construction, with the ship’s effective weight being lowered by as much as forty percent overall, making them both faster and more manoeuvrable than their equivalent-sized foes. The Technomancy also applies to the ship’s guns, making them lighter and easier to handle, requiring smaller gun crews. A special additive to the slower-burning gunpowder in use negates the weight-lightening effect on the shot when it is fired without affecting the gun: the shot regains its original mass without losing velocity. The effectively-lighter guns can be mounted higher in the ship without impeding stability, allowing the 74’s to mount 36 pdrs on both gundecks and 24 pdrs on the quarterdeck and forecastle, while the flagships can have three full gundecks of 36 pdrs, giving them an almost decisive edge in firepower. The same technology is used in the frigates, allowing them to mount 36 pdr guns on their single gundeck. Carronades are also in general usage; most ships will mount 68 pdr weapons on the forecastle and the poop whilst the heaviest ships mount immense 120 pdr carronades that are devastatingly effective at ranges less than 200 yards.

Psychomancers are also used extensively in the Navy; ships of the Line typically carry no less than eight, allowing two to be on duty at all times (as with the Guard, one will typically handle communication while the other handles ship morale) whilst smaller ships make do with four (the Psychomancers having to pull double-duty providing both communication and morale).

The Royal Marines and the Praetorians are smaller forces, with only four Marine Regiments currently serving, each with approximately 4,000 men, all of which are the equivalent of Line infantry and are divided up amongst the ships of the Fleet. The Praetorians are drawn from the best of the Guard and the Marines, mustering just 1,000 men they have the greatest experience and best weaponry and training of any Orion soldier).

The Empire is, as a rule, not particularly belligerent. That being said, it is perfectly wiling to go to war if it is deemed necessary. In particular, it will almost always respond with military force to any act of aggression against either the Empire or it’s citizens (the latter most clearly demonstrated by the infamous War of Cuthbert’s Ear fought over a century ago.

Given the lack of any offensive mental abilities inherent to the Empire and the prevalence of difficult-to-kill creatures, Orion scientists are striving to develop anti-magic weapons. Among these efforts are magnesium flares fired from mortars on a high arc; it is believed these will be lethally effective against vampires. Also, the Guard is testing a version of the Navies chain-shot; fired at head height it is thought this will be capable to decapitating large numbers of attacking undead creatures. Efforts are also underway to develop anti-magic explosive shells using the Navy’s gunpowder additives, though several scientists maintain that a magnesium flare shell would be equally effective in this role.

Notes:

-I've taken note of Simon's comments about how effective weapon will be. My Technomancy-enhanced artillery does indeed sound useful in such situations, which is not something I initially considered (it was originally conceived as a way to have more big guns on my ships while being stable and keeping an acceptable rate of fire). Also, while I was originally writing thsi post, I completely forgot about carronades (d'oh!). So yeah, you get up close to my flagships, enjoy a 120-pdr carronade firing double-shotted with grapeshot and canister in your face

-Military-wise I've attempted to stick roughly to the 100,000 limit, with 66,000 soldiers and Marines plus, oh, 35,000-40,000 sailors. Though I haven't heard anyone else talking about having a strong Navy, so I might just cut mien back to a group of maybe sixty heavy 44-gun frigates. No sense maintaining sail-of-the-line if there no enemies for them to fight after all, and given my Technomancy being used, those 44-gun ships could be packing 36-pounders makign them capable of engaging sail of the line, especially if I added some Technomancy to making the hulls/frames stronger as well as effectively lighter....hmmm.

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah. I'd say go with the frigates. Assuming Orion has a substantial, flourishing maritime trade (probably including the outside world beyond North America in all its improbable and fantastic glory), they need ships that can travel quickly.

And since we're trying to stick to, oh, 1750 technology, the odds are good that there aren't ships out there capable of matching the gunnery performance of a two-deck frigate armed with Orion artillery. Frigates will be good enough. Plus they save on metal; one of the biggest costs of making weapons in pre-industrial times is just having enough iron. And weight-saving enchantments don't really help with this, because the gun has to be physically large enough to survive the stresses of firing. That takes bulk, so a lightened 36pdr +1 of negligible encumbrance still has to use the same amount of metal that a real life 36pdr would.

By contrast, building huge numbers of ships of the line would consume considerably more metal and be less than helpful unless there are competitor nations across the sea who have equivalent ships of their own and who Orion foresees fighting a war with.

I will note that control of Maine and parts of New England, along with Quebec, ensures that Orion has lavish supplies of shipbuilding materials; trees and so forth from America were key supply source for the Royal Navy during the 18th century historically.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Fair enough. When it comes time to post a proper OOB I'll change it to large frigates, though I may keep a handful of 74's on hand to act as flagships, with the Technomancy included they can move 4-5 knots faster than OTL 74's, so keeping pace with other ships shouldn't be a problem. I'm thinking 50-60 frigates and maybe five 74's, the frigates are based on real-life French fifth-rates, 36-gun single deck ships though armed with Technomantic 36 pdr long guns and 68 pdr carronades.

Also, turns out I may not be able to use my proposed anti-vampire magnesium flares, since that element wasn't used in it's native form until 1808. Damn. I can always say it's under development I suppose.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ghetto Edit: Of course, cutting out 30+ sail of the line will free up about 20-25,000 men to form into new Guard Regiments

[Simon_Jester]

[Raises eyebrow]

How, exactly, do you make a sailing ship faster with technomancy?

By the way, you might want to compare to designs dating back to, oh, the Seven Years' War or so; Skimmer made a valid point about how we kind of don't want to go full-on Napoleonic and that many elements of the Industrial Revolution were already underway or nearly so in 1800. If we munchkinize the technology that existed as of 1799, we will have what are in many ways industrial nation-states, which kind of subverts the intention of the game.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Fair points. AS for making the ships faster, well the mass-lightening enchantment is applied to the ships hull, the guns, the masts and sails and rigging and so forth. Thus, the wind only has to act on a ship that weighs 50-60% of what it should. Same force acting on a smaller mass means faster sailing.

I see what you are saying about the technology. Fortunately, as best I can tell muskets etc didn't change much between 1750 and 1800, so my plans for the Imperial Guard shouldn't be affected. As for ships, well, gunlocks will still be around as the British introduced those in 1745. Carronades will be 30 years in the future, damnit, so I'll have to stick with oversized swivel guns I suppose. For the ships themselves, the French and British had 32 and 36 gun ships in service during the War of the Austrian Succession in 1740-1748, so I'm ok on those. The French frigates could sail at close to 14 knots, with my shipsbeing "lighter" that should be improved even further. 74's first appeared in the 1740s as well.

So basically all I have to remove from my naval plans are carronades. Sweet.

[Simon_Jester]

Fair points. AS for making the ships faster, well the mass-lightening enchantment is applied to the ships hull, the guns, the masts and sails and rigging and so forth. Thus, the wind only has to act on a ship that weighs 50-60% of what it should. Same force acting on a smaller mass means faster sailing.

Only up to a point. Among other things, as the speed of the ship becomes higher, drag on the hull from water resistance increases. Also, your ship is physically lighter and therefore more susceptible to wave action, so if the waves are pushing you in the 'wrong' direction, it will constantly hammer your ship and cause you to lose a disproportionate amount of speed. You will also have problems getting good speed sailing against the wind, because your lighter ship displaces less water and doesn't "dig in" to the water as deeply, so if the wind is coming at you from ahead or from the side, it will blow you backwards or sideways and stop you from getting where you want to go.

Essentially, the thing to remember is that the sea, the wind and the waves are not as simple an environment in physics terms as rocket engines in outer space; altering the mass of a ship without changing its other properties will have complicated results.

Now, a ship like this might well be very fast running before the wind and with the waves in a straight line. Not so sure about how speedy it would be under less ideal conditions.

All in all, I think you'd have a hard time getting above 15-16 knots without incorporating things like clipper ship hull designs... which are, again, post-1800 technology.

So basically all I have to remove from my naval plans are carronades. Sweet.

Swivel guns might actually be more desirable in some respects, because they represent flexible, trainable armament that can potentially be adapted as an AA weapon or pointed in directions the ship isn't normally attacked from.

Historical 18th century ships of the line were only designed to fight other ships of the line. They didn't have to worry about random wyvern attacks, or sea monsters, or sea-trolls clambering over the deck. So their armament was... a tad inflexible, heavily optimized for a single purpose.

[The Romulan Republic]

can I check to make sure my nation-concept is acceptable? I found a way to have radios and heavier guns and such, is that game-breaking or permissible, since I don't have dragons/other species/high-end war-mages.

Sorry its taken me a while to get back to this.

Generally, if you can imitate technological effects with clever magic, that's okay, as long as you don't take it too far. I would be careful about stating that your capabilities are unique or that your navy is basically better than everyone else or stuff like that, though, because it might limit what other players can do.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Simon: Hmm...well, the ships are going to weigh slightly less than OTL ships anyway because of the Technomancy acting on the guns, even if I leave out using the enchantments on the ship itself. Perhaps I can add another enchantment that works like OTL copper plating on the ship's undersides, that would give me a small speed boost compared to 1750-era ships. I should still be able to have a 36 gun ship sailing at maybe 15 knots.

I had started thinking about if my weight-saving idea would work as envisaged on the hulls, I thought about going "ah fuck it it's magic" then realised that doesn't fit Orion's mindset very well.

So, Technomancy acting on the guns and shot should save a chunk of weight, though in effect I have a 36-gun ship whose guns weigh as much as 12 or 18 pdrs but fire like 36 pdrs, so weight saving won't be much now that I think about it compared to OTL ships, plus another enchantment keeping the ships bottom smooth and clear of barnacles and other fouling sea life.

TRR: In my updated backstory I haven't stated that any of my "sanctioned" abilities are unique, or necessarily that my Navy is the best, though given the superior gunnery and slight speed advantage we probably do have an edge. So, yeah, others can use the telepathy or interromancy ideas I have if they want. Hell, i may even allow some in-game trade for Technomancy-enhanced field guns if nations are interested enough (read: willing to pay)

[Simon_Jester]

Simon: Hmm...well, the ships are going to weigh slightly less than OTL ships anyway because of the Technomancy acting on the guns, even if I leave out using the enchantments on the ship itself. Perhaps I can add another enchantment that works like OTL copper plating on the ship's undersides, that would give me a small speed boost compared to 1750-era ships. I should still be able to have a 36 gun ship sailing at maybe 15 knots.

Yes, I think fifteen knots is achievable. I also think you'd be within your rights to just literally copper the bottoms of the ships- it is entirely in keeping with Orion's character that they would figure it out, it doesn't violate the stated premises, and it's not a massive weird advance with knock-on consequences the way that, oh, stronger steel is.

TRR: In my updated backstory I haven't stated that any of my "sanctioned" abilities are unique, or necessarily that my Navy is the best, though given the superior gunnery and slight speed advantage we probably do have an edge. So, yeah, others can use the telepathy or interromancy ideas I have if they want. Hell, i may even allow some in-game trade for Technomancy-enhanced field guns if nations are interested enough (read: willing to pay)

So far, you have a number of capabilities no one has the declared ability to match- as do I, as does everyone who's spoken about their nations in any great detail. Part of the point of fantasy is the ability to make things fantastic- to do that which is amazing, unknown, unexpected, unimagined, inconceivable.

I like it that way.

[The Romulan Republic]

Oh, its wonderful if each faction is quite unique. I just want to remind people not to assert from the start that they're the best in such and such an area, because it then forces everyone else to limit their factions around that.

What I hope to see is that their is no clear "best" in most fields, but that we all have different ways of doing things, the results of which will be tested on the field of battle.

Diversity is best in a game like this, as it is in life.

[The Romulan Republic]

Some tentative thoughts on my faction, about which I've been pretty quiet thus far:

The Travellers are an elvish people who once dwelt in the cold Forests of Coronal on the southwestern edge of the Bay of Ice (Hudson's Bay), until colder winters, accompanying drought and famine, and brutal raids made their remaining untenable. Not all of their deeply traditionalist people were willing to leave, and a vicious civil war was fought over the subject. During that conflict, the queen, the leader of the traditionalist faction, was poisoned by a traitor. Her daughter, considered young and inexperienced by the standards of her people, took the throne and finally compromised with the rebels, agreeing to leave the woods for a new homeland. For fifty years, therefore, the Travellers have earned their name, wandering across different lands, occasionally being welcomed, and often being met with hostility, even attacked. They are widely thought of as vagabonds, thieves, untrustworthy. Their numbers have plummeted (they reproduce slowly due to immortality), and they have become increasingly xenophobic themselves. Their is much division between those who want to settle peacefully in a new homeland, those who wish to return to their ancient home, those who feel they should turn to dark magic to survive, and those who have adapted to the lifestyle of wanders and simply wish to be nomads. However, almost all recognize that another civil war could destroy their people. Though they have divided into a number of roving bands, most of these retain contact with each other and remain at least nominally loyal to the Queen. They have recently begun to settle in the Mist Forests of the Western Coast.

Physically, the Travellers mostly have brown skin, slightly large, vivid, green eyes, slightly larger than normal ears, dark hair, and slender builds. They possess keen senses, particularly keen sight, hearing, and smell. They are fast and agile. They are immortal, provided they are not injured or diseased, and have a strong affinity for magic, particularly healing, telepathic, and illusionary magic. Those of a darker inclination have often shown an affinity for necromancy, which adds to the distrust of their people. Aside from this, they are essentially human in appearance and biology.

Culturally, they are a conservative traditionalist matriarchy and monarchy for the most part, though recent events have shaken their culture. They worship a trio of deities (representing the Sun, Moon, and Earth), and fear "The Void", a personification of evil, entropy, and death. In their mythology, the stars represent the servants and guardians of the Deities, who stand watch against the darkness at night. Traditionally, professions and ranks are rotated in their society- this is seen as necessary to ensure that immortal beings do not perpetually control one position, denying all other access. This is true of the crown as well, which is rotated once a century among the heads of the various clans, following strict guidelines.

Militarily, they use a combination of light skirmishers (Rangers), elite melee infantry (the Guard), and mages (the Order of Scholars and the Order of Healers). Traditionalist as they are, they continue to shun gunpowder weaponry for the most part, relying on magic to make up the difference. They are skilled at navigating rivers and have some experience as coastal/lake sailors, but are not really ocean-going. Lately, due to crossing the plains and interacting with other peoples more, they have begun adopting cavalry, a radical break from their historically all-infantry forces.

Hopefully this won't be problematic for anyone.

[madd0ct0r]

It's fantastic for me - it explains who the Hyenorks have been raiding all these years, and why there isn't anyone to my south at the moment.
Traps and elvish ruins will make a nice story post. Especially since those ruins are alive and twisted forests

Would you be interested in the Hyenorks being a created race - your domestic dogs run amok?

[The Romulan Republic]

I'll admit your guys came to mind as the source of the raids.

As to weather my people created them... I don't see the "mainstream" of my society creating a subservient sentient race.

But... well, it wouldn't be the only time some asshole mage went rogue. So that could work.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Simon: Hmm...well, the ships are going to weigh slightly less than OTL ships anyway because of the Technomancy acting on the guns, even if I leave out using the enchantments on the ship itself. Perhaps I can add another enchantment that works like OTL copper plating on the ship's undersides, that would give me a small speed boost compared to 1750-era ships. I should still be able to have a 36 gun ship sailing at maybe 15 knots.

Yes, I think fifteen knots is achievable. I also think you'd be within your rights to just literally copper the bottoms of the ships- it is entirely in keeping with Orion's character that they would figure it out, it doesn't violate the stated premises, and it's not a massive weird advance with knock-on consequences the way that, oh, stronger steel is.

Fair enough. Copper bottomed ships it is.

[Simon_Jester]

Mmm...

[Grins unpleasantly, looking northward]

The most easily available supply of copper in northern North America comes from Michigan's Upper Peninsula. If some unpleasant little bastard of a city-state that sits on the safest route for copper-carrying boats to reach you were charging... excessive... tolls on copper shipments, and if we were prepared to eliminate this toll for in exchange for certain... considerations that go 'boom,' do you think you might bite?

Don't worry, that unpleasant grin is pointed at someone else this time, E_F.

[Simon_Jester]

[DAMMIT, doubleposted again, I keep hitting 'quote' when I meant to hit 'edit' and then not noticing the quote tags at start and finish while I patch up the middle. Grumble grumble new forum user interface grumble grumble]

Anyway, full text follows:

Mmm...

[Grins unpleasantly, looking northward]

The most easily available supply of copper in northern North America comes from Michigan's Upper Peninsula. So much so that in the 1840s you could literally dig it out of the ground with rocks and sticks- and the natives had been doing so for centuries. In our setting I suspect there are already pre-industrial copper mines sited there, under the control of no major power in particular.

[I know I don't own them, and to get at them you would have to pass at least three major water chokepoints you don't control either, making a military expedition awkward, precarious, and depending on the goodwill of at least three groups who might take exception to your passage with artillery fired at point blank range]

However, the water route through the Great Lakes looks like it's pretty anarchic once you get past Lake Erie (which the Ohioans can keep mostly patrolled). While this would not in itself stop copper from reaching you, since a copper shipment hijacked by pirates will still have to be sold to someone, it's not good for copper-using businesses and probably artificially inflates the prices for us downstream, civilized consumers of the metal.

If some unpleasant little bastard of a city-state that sits on the safest route for copper-carrying boats to reach you were charging... excessive... tolls on copper shipments, and if we were prepared to eliminate this toll for in exchange for certain... considerations that go 'boom,' do you think you might bite?

Don't worry, that unpleasant grin is pointed at someone else this time, E_F.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm sure an equitable trade could be worked out

[Beowulf]

Ok, so I think I'm going to claim the Southeast, including Florida, Georgia, parts of Alabama, and parts of South Carolina, and various Caribbean islands, including Cuba. Borders include the Santee/Congaree/Saluda river, and the Mobile/Alabama/Coosa river. Between the headwaters of those two, the Appalachians form the northern border. I think this puts me at roughly the same area as everyone else. The islands will of necessity make me a major maritime player, and probable trading partner/rival of Orion.