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Sea Skimmer wrote:Warships capable of accommodating more then one aircraft actually, not your whole fleets. That means Saddamistan is not demanding you remove Halifax class frigates or Flight I and II Burke destroyers, or quite a number of other classes of warship people might be using. It does demand the removal of Tico and Kirov cruisers, aircraft carriers and aviation ships of all kinds, and similar high power offensive surface warships. This is thus not demanding you strip away all defences, nor is any demand made of land based aircraft or ABM missiles.

"...withdrawal of all warships from states not bordering Saddamistan..."

Luckily me, Baal, and Adrianpolis border you. So the MESS gets a reason to stick around.

So, since we've all actually complied with your condition, are you going to come to a bargaining table with all of us present now?

(Yes I know the one aircraft bit, just didn't feel like quoting the whole thing)

So, since we've all actually complied with your condition

WHAT? You ALL WITHDREW? I was under the obligations of the Security Council, but you?

Stas Bush wrote:

So, since we've all actually complied with your condition

WHAT? You ALL WITHDREW? I was under the obligations of the Security Council, but you?

Oh no. But as I pointed out, he made an exception for "nations bordering Saddamistan". Since myself, Baal and Adrianpolis border Saddamistan, technically speaking the MESS shouldn't have to withdraw at all.

Therefore we are in compliance.

To be clear, we're still there. I'm just claiming compliance on a technicality.

CmdrWilkens wrote: I'm curious how you got SSBNs or SSBKs since the OP did not allow a DDBN/K substitution which means you would have had to declare them as being under construction...
So basicly I'm wondering if you are declaring you've got a dozen or so SSN/Ks with cruise missiles that are nuke tipped or do you have one or two of a preiviously undeclared SSBN/K? Moreover if you have an SSBN then how the heck did you manage to get an operational SLB without any of us (who are certainly watching closely) noticing?

My submarines are all SSNs and mostly various types of diesel boat. This includes numerous very small coastal and midget submarines, Saddamistan does not have any secrete mammoth submarines unfortunately. It does have several India class diesel rescue submarines, necessary in theory owing to frequent disasters among the diesel fleet. Current naval nuclear arsenal is torpedoes, mines, the RPK-2 Viyuga (SS-N-15) ASW missile with a nuclear depth charge air burst capability, and on select ships also the larger caliber RPK-7 Vorobei (SS-N-16). Anyway I’ll prepare a detailed naval order of battle. In term so dedicated land attack ballistic missiles submarines Saddamistan has several different SSB designs with short to medium range missiles, almost all of them armed with biological cluster bomblet warheads.

The various sub launched long range missiles have undergone only a limited test program, fired within Saddamistan controlled territory. I also have sub launched anti ship missiles which work fine. You’d all have limited intelligence on the more exotic weapons all this, without satellite over flights or being able to get a sub real close to the launch area you can’t learn all that much. You know I have a lot of small submarines and coastal defense units and watercraft, but you don’t have accurate counts for example. You can learn some by radar mapping the coast, but Saddamistan has made radar reflectors mandatory on all buildings and moving civilian vehicles to confuse enemy sensors. It also employs high power barrage jamming any time it detects attempts at radar mapping, with limited success.

Saddamistan is a closed country outside of a few major cities, foreign workers are imported at times, but kept strictly segregated from other personal at all times by Saddamistans massive internal security apparatus.

I'm not saying it can't be done but I am saying that if it can be done either we should have had some tinkle of warning (in the form of rocket or ship tests)or its being done by jury-rigged conventional forces that we should be able to stop almost at will given everyone's heightened state of alert.

One of the reasons I chose New Guanine for topography was it has fairly big bodies of very well enclosed sea area in the far west, this was used for secret tests of integrating the existing SS-N-15 and SS-N-16 into Saddamistan submarines, which are a mix of America, Soviet, German, Swedish and North Korean Types, mostly small types which have been in production on an assembly line basis. Some have been fitted with compact auxiliary nuclear reactors of very low power, creep speed and auxiliaries only. They’ve got modern torpedoes and Saddamistan will be happy to trade them one for one for even relatively modest enemy warships. In the highly restricted waters so many of your warships are operating in, waterways less then 100 miles wide in many cases, it would be pretty damn hard to evade diesel subs as you could hope to do in the open ocean. In confined water the SS (a great many of my boats don’t even rate the K for hunter killer owing to limited sensors) can adapt its deadly ‘act like a dead rock in the water silent’ tactic.

RogueIce wrote:

Stas Bush wrote:

So, since we've all actually complied with your condition

WHAT? You ALL WITHDREW? I was under the obligations of the Security Council, but you?

Oh no. But as I pointed out, he made an exception for "nations bordering Saddamistan". Since myself, Baal and Adrianpolis border Saddamistan, technically speaking the MESS shouldn't have to withdraw at all.

Therefore we are in compliance.

To be clear, we're still there. I'm just claiming compliance on a technicality.

I’m confused, unless the MESS is only three nations which is much less then I thought. Unless the MESS is considered a single sovereign nation you don’t have a technicality to work with, and if it is a sovereign nation that I’ll just going to amend history. The intent was to allow for basic defensive warships of foreign powers to remain, and for full local fleets to be present, but not the multi aircraft carrying cruiser escorted attack carriers from places a thousand miles away.

Sea Skimmer wrote:I’m confused, unless the MESS is only three nations which is much less then I thought. Unless the MESS is considered a single sovereign nation you don’t have a technicality to work with, and if it is a sovereign nation that I’ll just going to amend history. The intent was to allow for basic defensive warships of foreign powers to remain, and for full local fleets to be present, but not the multi aircraft carrying cruiser escorted attack carriers from places a thousand miles away.

Well Bean is keeping his ships around Zoria, some of which I believe violate your terms if I remember right.

At any rate what we could do is send the ships west of Libertia out 500 miles, and claim the ones east are simply operating as a joint protective pact for Adrianpolis, since his country lacks the capability on his own.

But we'd like some kind of public assurances first. Before we started all this, we asked you time and again to provide evidence of that attack on patrol boats and such and were ignored. So you're going to have to do something to convince us you're going to be acting in good faith.

RogueIce wrote:Oh no. But as I pointed out, he made an exception for "nations bordering Saddamistan". Since myself, Baal and Adrianpolis border Saddamistan, technically speaking the MESS shouldn't have to withdraw at all.

Bullshit.

Have the Lonestar Republic , Tian Xia, and Wilkonian fleets withdrawn? No? then your'e in violation.

Stas Bush wrote:If the Sultanate reiterates the Jihad [against Shep] and does not publically call it off, that would be an act of war against an OMSK nation, and we would be OBLIGED to go to war with the Sultanate. Do not try to stop us, this is a legal right now that the Sultanate is a sovereign state and can't just throw "jihaad!" claims around.

Well, we've made the proposal. Either he calls off both jihads, or he is considered to have declared War On The World.

Now it's up to GMY to role-play his response

Technically the MESS isn't violating anyting. It simply isn't complying to Saddams ridiculous demands

P.S. And now, we bide our time and see how it goes.

The LSRN and TXN are operating in an area roughly 150 miles in daimeter (though that is rather flexible) some 200 miles south of Saddamistan, in that large chunk of water between Libertia and Adrianpolis.

I will let those with more naval knowledge than I comment on whether this mine hit is that realistic.

Pretty realistic in my view, especially as Saddamistan did claim that he mined the hell out of all these waters, in the best traditions of naval mining.

Besides, the "thousands of floating bodies" incident clearly hinted at the really massive number of mines, which destroyed many refugee ships.

Stas Bush wrote:Pretty realistic in my view, especially as Saddamistan did claim that he mined the hell out of all these waters, in the best traditions of naval mining.

Besides, the "thousands of floating bodies" incident clearly hinted at the really massive number of mines, which destroyed many refugee ships.

Just how much did he mine, anyway? I mean, where did he start and where did he stop? So far he's only mentioned "north of Terra Libertia" or thereabouts but that's pretty vauge.

RogueIce wrote:
Just how much did he mine, anyway? I mean, where did he start and where did he stop? So far he's only mentioned "north of Terra Libertia" or thereabouts but that's pretty vauge.

As was announced some time ago, Saddamistan initially mined its waters with 29,500 contact mines (moored at multiple depths to create a complete screen) and command detonated mines (linked to hydrophones and indicator loops for covering safe passage lanes) as an anti monster precaution. These mines are pretty much all installed closely around ports and river mouths. These also expanded the existing secret mine defenses installed around several enclosed sea areas spread around Saddamistan which are used for secret weapons testing and training. Those moored contact mines could and would break lose, in real life drifting mines plagued the North Sea for years after the end of WW1.

At the same time Saddamistan announced a follow on plan for 69,000 mines, mostly of more advanced types. Contrary to reports though, Saddamistan modified few of these miens to repel monsters, it planted the fields to screen its coast, form traps in combination with other coast defense weapons system (ship tries to evade offshore underwater launched torpedo, hits mine ect…) and deny the enemy access to coastal shipping lanes. These minefields are laid up to 24nm off the coast of Saddamistan and in many cases the field’s boundaries have been extended further using dummy mines. All fields have lots of dummy mines to confuse sweeping efforts. Several ports in Terra Libertia have been lightly mined by Saddamistan submarines and minefields have been laid into the straights of Terra Libertia to protect a pair of safe passage lanes which are also patrolled by the Saddamstani navy.

Saddamstan has an extensive and sophisticated mine arsenal, and is working as fast as it can to expand its minefields, both in the water and on shore in key sectors.

Saddamistan additionally reminds all world aggressor governments that by entering the legally declared war zone in the straights of Terra Libertia and ignoring Saddamistans marked and swept channel they have exposed themselves to incalculable risk of damage from sunken vessels and drifting naval mines. Saddamistan accepts absolutely no responsibility for damage so incurred after it has already issued repeated warnings.

He mined straights around Libertia and warned about it.

It looks certain that it happened.

Strictly speaking none of us went into the straits themselves. We've stayed in that chunk of open ocean between Eastern Terra Libertia and Western Adrianpolis.

Well and me in the West of Libertia but I've got lots of empty ocean out there...

I suppose one could have drifted and gotten lucky, so to speak. But I don't think they'd be that huge a threat in the long run.

You sent ships right up to the limit of Saddamistan territorial waters, which are riddled end to end with minefields, any one of which could have lost a mine. Remember mines inflicted a mere what was it, 18 out of 22 USN ships sunk or damaged since WW2? Including all the ones that sank I am pretty certain.

You asked for this by ordering your fleet right up to the limit, mine warfare is nasty business and none of your fleet units have any real minesweeping or minehunting capability. Many of the most advanced mines, including torpedo equipped mines and rocket propelled rising mines await deployment in far offshore waters (water more then 2,500ft deep can be mined with existing real life mines) by just about every craft Saddamistan can put on water or in the air. Already much of the mining and epically the laying of hoards of fake decoy mines for 5 dollars each, has been haphazardly done by volunteer and commandeered watercraft.

Grand Moff Yenchin

I figure if nothing else the Sultan will get to a radio somewhere and start broadcasting. One of the MESS CAPs is bound to pick it up.

It may be unconfirmed for some, but should provide enough for those who aren't seeking the death of the Sultan on general principle to begin working.

Sea Skimmer wrote:You sent ships right up to the limit of Saddamistan territorial waters, which are riddled end to end with minefields, any one of which could have lost a mine. Remember mines inflicted a mere what was it, 18 out of 22 USN ships sunk or damaged since WW2? Including all the ones that sank I am pretty certain.

You asked for this by ordering your fleet right up to the limit, mine warfare is nasty business and none of your fleet units have any real minesweeping or minehunting capability. Many of the most advanced mines, including torpedo equipped mines and rocket propelled rising mines await deployment in far offshore waters (water more then 2,500ft deep can be mined with existing real life mines) by just about every craft Saddamistan can put on water or in the air. Already much of the mining and epically the laying of hoards of fake decoy mines for 5 dollars each, has been haphazardly done by volunteer and commandeered watercraft.

We didn't put our ships right up to the 24 mile limit. They stayed further south (or west, in my case). Our aircraft have been patrolling the 24 mile limit for Libertia, keeping as wide a berth from Saddamistan as possible.

At any rate, I'm not going to contest it. If someone else wants to I don't care, but I myself don't have the naval warfare knowledge to do it.

As a precaution, we did move our ships a bit more south and to the east, further away from the straits themselves and more into that sea gap down there. We're not trying to force our way through the minefield.

RogueIce wrote:Grand Moff Yenchin

I figure if nothing else the Sultan will get to a radio somewhere and start broadcasting. One of the MESS CAPs is bound to pick it up.

It may be unconfirmed for some, but should provide enough for those who aren't seeking the death of the Sultan on general principle to begin working.

Ok, ignore the 'unclear whether it was received' part. Originally I was planning some more drama, but I fixed it here and there and obviously some things weren't rethought thoroughly.

Stas Bush wrote:And because we don't like the Sultanate IC

The photos help?
He sort of fucked my own nation as well, the shit has yet to hit the fan. Up to date he's not totally reformed and according to the game flow something may or may not come up again.

So the Sultan called off the Jihad.

I think that (1) the MESS quarantine between Libertia and Saddam should be maintained and (2) Sultan should be assisted with precision missile strikes against the Jihadists who are now an illegal power trying to overthrow a legal state leader, and if nothing helps I will find measures. We have long arms.

As for the ship explosion, we will await the MESS and Lonestar reaction.

Well, glad to see that the situation has been resolved. The FUN's forces will not back down from Qudlivun's territorial waters as they have been allowed there by the local government.

EDIT:

And good job, PeZook! Excellent espionagey secret agent man stuff! The Fungal Intelligence Agency made an excellent showing!

Shroom Man 777 wrote: And good job, PeZook! Excellent espionagey secret agent man stuff! The Fungal Intelligence Agency made an excellent showing!

The hard work was by ProTec, though. Kulinsky just showed up with a bunch of guys and talked with the Sultan.

Damn. Now we owe a favor to those goddamned mercenaries

Damn! Well... hopefully it won't be a public thing, so if it's secret, we won't have to "publicly" favor them. We'll grant them some... less visible favors, though

Hooray for espionage!

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Damn! Well... hopefully it won't be a public thing, so if it's secret, we won't have to "publicly" favor them. We'll grant them some... less visible favors, though

Hooray for espionage!

I suggest free BodyOil and a lot of ISCA calendars

Or not. I may let them back into PeZookia, though.

PeZook wrote:

Shroom Man 777 wrote: And good job, PeZook! Excellent espionagey secret agent man stuff! The Fungal Intelligence Agency made an excellent showing!

The hard work was by ProTec, though. Kulinsky just showed up with a bunch of guys and talked with the Sultan.

Damn. Now we owe a favor to those goddamned mercenaries

Well if you want you do now have "The Wind (or Will) of Justice" sect of Thuggee working for FUN now...

in case you want anyone silverballed or having thier necks broken and made to look like they hanged themselves....