Damn you WH40K

[NeoGoomba]

So here I am, totally bored in the computer lab at college and I start reading the WH40K wiki. Started just with Space Marines, but then moved into the equipment and then Chaos and then on and on...

And now I want to play the damn game, or at the very least get some fluff. I know its a big investment to assemble an army, so I think fluff books and rulebooks are the best bet.

I'll probably pick up the 4th edition book soon, as the local RPG bookstore has a good supply of 40K gear, but since it looks like Space Marines (which chapter I'm not yet sure of) will probably be what I play, unless I see something cooler, what sort of books should I pick up to entertain/condemn myself?

[Stravo]

I started writing a chapter of a fanfic based just on what I read on Wiki my friend so I feel your pain. I guess I'm lucky I'm not much into ministures and playing army guy but I can see myself picking up some fluff books on a whim.

[SirNitram]

Definately know the feeling. No armies for me(Can't paint, terrible at strategy), but definately getting into the fluff and fiddling with thoughts. As a sign of my insanity, I thought up how to make an Eldar/Space Marine force with the Marine army list.. I'm clearly insane.

[Lazarus]

The same sort of thing happened to me, although it was a friend of mine who originally got me into it. They run beginners hours at the local GW, which were free so it was like 'What can I lose?' Well, about £500 actually

As a noob, the first impulse is usually 'Ooohh, look, superhuman killing machines in half a ton of armour, gimme gimme', but before you choose you army think very carefully. If you want to get into 40k, and there's a good community nearby, it could become your major hobby for the next few years or more, and take up a considerable amount of your hard earned cash. Not that it isn't worth it IMO, but what I'm saying is that when you choose an army, its quite an investment, and difficult to change further down the line without another chunk of money flying into GW's till.

I myself chose Ultramarines, as many a noob does, mostly because I wanted to play Imperium, and the Marines seemed quite easy to pick up and play. Plus, they were blue and yellow.
Anyway, a few months down the line, I was regretting the decision, and wanting to play Guard instead. However, I had already put about £150 into marines by this point, so it would have been quite a loss.

Whichever army you choose, think carefully, and maybe try to go for the one that no one else has, because this will make most games you have much more interesting than the boring Marines v Marines noobfest.
Good Luck!

[NeoGoomba]

Definately know the feeling. No armies for me(Can't paint, terrible at strategy), but definately getting into the fluff and fiddling with thoughts. As a sign of my insanity, I thought up how to make an Eldar/Space Marine force with the Marine army list.. I'm clearly insane.

Yeah the painting part would really destroy me, unless I make the Fingerpaint Chapter.

But I guess if I had the rulebook and can figure out the point system, I could see if I can't at least get a grasp on how to construct a good fighting force, then seeing if it is a good enough investment if there are tournaments in the area (not that I'd win, I'd just want to play)

[Lost Soal]

Definately know the feeling. No armies for me(Can't paint, terrible at strategy), but definately getting into the fluff and fiddling with thoughts. As a sign of my insanity, I thought up how to make an Eldar/Space Marine force with the Marine army list.. I'm clearly insane.

Not at all, your just using old rule. In 2nd Ed, you could have a marine army with Eldar allies, which I decided to try. I got the Avatar, and thats it for Eldar.

[SirNitram]

Definately know the feeling. No armies for me(Can't paint, terrible at strategy), but definately getting into the fluff and fiddling with thoughts. As a sign of my insanity, I thought up how to make an Eldar/Space Marine force with the Marine army list.. I'm clearly insane.

Not at all, your just using old rule. In 2nd Ed, you could have a marine army with Eldar allies, which I decided to try. I got the Avatar, and thats it for Eldar.

I actually took the 4th Ed Marine book and the most recent Eldar book and played 'What can these stats represent for Eldar?'. It ended up with such amusing sights as an Honour Guard being Wraithguard, around a Librarian(Farseer). Which made some sense; if you were a Farseer working in close proximity to Marines, wouldn't you want some tough badasses to guard you?

[white_rabbit]

Just reading the Rulebook gives a good idea of what you might enjoy to be honest.

Just so you know, theres a genuine 40k RPG in the works as well.

http://www.specialist-games.com/inquisitor/default.asp

That should take you to the Inquisitor Living rulebook, which has lots of fluff, the site has some nice articles that make interesting reading as well.
Inquisitor is also a slightly cheaper alternative to 40k
IIRC, the Epic Living rulebook is there as well as Battle Fleet Gothic. I would reccomend Gothic as a game to collect, the models are great, its cheap to collect, and easy to paint (compared to some 40k models)

Deus Sanguineous, and Deus Encarmine (James Swallow) are nice intro books for Space Marines, Blood Angels versus the Word Bearers.

Dan Abnett's Gaunts Ghosts novels are a fantastic read, but focussed mainly on the Tanith 1st, his Guard regiment, but they are a nice set piece , as it looks like the Sabbat worlds crusade is likely to be the most indepth look at an Imperial offensive crusade we are going to have for a long time. It also makes a change from the Imperium being on the defensive all the time.

Despite what people might whine, the Eisenhorn Trilogy is basically one gigantic sourcebook for the Inquisition, and its damn good as well.

Avoid books like SoulDrinker, and the rest of the series until you've had a little look, because I'm not sure it'll jell well unless you've got a better grounding.

The Last Chancers, Angels of Darkness by Gav Thorpe are excellent books to read, Mr Thorpe would be up there with Abnett if only he wrote more books. tales of an Imperial Guard penal legion, and the most secretive of the Space Marine chapters.


At its most basic, a 40k army is 3 units.

a HQ unit, i.e. commander of some form.

Two Line units of " troops" i.e. imperial guard basic grunts, Tactical squad, Ork Shoota-boyz.

You then tack on Elites ( Space marine Terminators, Eldar Aspect warriors) Heavy Support ( Tanks, heavy weapons teams, ) and Fast Attack ( fast vehicles, jump troopers, flying/running beasties)


A rather cheaper way to enjoy the hobby is buy Dawn of War for the PC, plus some novels

[Cao Cao]

I find what I've read of 40k lore to be very interesting, and would love to get involved in it.
However I have neither the funds nor easy access to be able to buy 40k books and other materials in my area.
Well that and I have all the model painting skill of a senile mountain yak.

[Azazal]

bewarned, from RGMW:

#1582. I think they call it Warhammer "40K" because that is how
much you are going to have to make per year in order to play.

- Eric Noland

# 1082. Pound for pound I can buy cocaine cheaper than
raise a Warhammer army

- Roy Cox

That being said, I recommed getting the 4th ed rule book, not the Battle for Maccragge boxed set. The base rules are the same, but the rule book gives you more background and game info. Look at the background for the different races and see which one appeals to you the best. Then slowly build up an army, start with 500 points, and work your way from there.

Another nice thing in the rulebook, but not in the boxed set, the killteam rules. Its a great way to ease into 40K. You basiclly make a squad of bas-asses and go on special ops type missions. It's much easier to play and pay for, and lets you see if 40k is for you and if are ready to start dropping the cash for a full fledged army.

[Lost Soal]

The same sort of thing happened to me, although it was a friend of mine who originally got me into it. They run beginners hours at the local GW, which were free so it was like 'What can I lose?' Well, about £500 actually

As a noob, the first impulse is usually 'Ooohh, look, superhuman killing machines in half a ton of armour, gimme gimme', but before you choose you army think very carefully. If you want to get into 40k, and there's a good community nearby, it could become your major hobby for the next few years or more, and take up a considerable amount of your hard earned cash. Not that it isn't worth it IMO, but what I'm saying is that when you choose an army, its quite an investment, and difficult to change further down the line without another chunk of money flying into GW's till.

I myself chose Ultramarines, as many a noob does, mostly because I wanted to play Imperium, and the Marines seemed quite easy to pick up and play. Plus, they were blue and yellow.
Anyway, a few months down the line, I was regretting the decision, and wanting to play Guard instead. However, I had already put about £150 into marines by this point, so it would have been quite a loss.

Whichever army you choose, think carefully, and maybe try to go for the one that no one else has, because this will make most games you have much more interesting than the boring Marines v Marines noobfest.
Good Luck!

The box came with marines and Orks, so I started building up both, with Blood Angels as my chapter. Further along down the line, I started getting more vehicles for the Orks, and decided I would like a Kult of Speed. Either through blessings or damnations, not sure which yet, GW publish Codex Armageddon with the Speed Freeks list .

Marines are probably chosen as much for budget reasons as anything else, since being the most expensive points wise, you can fill an army with relatively few models.

[theski]

Christ! Stormbringer got me hooked 1 year ago and now I have 20 freaking books.. but I love em...

[Lost Soal]

Definately know the feeling. No armies for me(Can't paint, terrible at strategy), but definately getting into the fluff and fiddling with thoughts. As a sign of my insanity, I thought up how to make an Eldar/Space Marine force with the Marine army list.. I'm clearly insane.

Not at all, your just using old rule. In 2nd Ed, you could have a marine army with Eldar allies, which I decided to try. I got the Avatar, and thats it for Eldar.

I actually took the 4th Ed Marine book and the most recent Eldar book and played 'What can these stats represent for Eldar?'. It ended up with such amusing sights as an Honour Guard being Wraithguard, around a Librarian(Farseer). Which made some sense; if you were a Farseer working in close proximity to Marines, wouldn't you want some tough badasses to guard you?

I hope the rules have changed then. The last time I saw rules for Wraith Guard, if you killed them they had a chance of exploding, then sucking anyone caught into the Warp with them.
Or do you stand it next to the Marine and hope it gets killed

[SirNitram]

Not at all, your just using old rule. In 2nd Ed, you could have a marine army with Eldar allies, which I decided to try. I got the Avatar, and thats it for Eldar.

I actually took the 4th Ed Marine book and the most recent Eldar book and played 'What can these stats represent for Eldar?'. It ended up with such amusing sights as an Honour Guard being Wraithguard, around a Librarian(Farseer). Which made some sense; if you were a Farseer working in close proximity to Marines, wouldn't you want some tough badasses to guard you?

I hope the rules have changed then. The last time I saw rules for Wraith Guard, if you killed them they had a chance of exploding, then sucking anyone caught into the Warp with them.
Or do you stand it next to the Marine and hope it gets killed

Don't see such a rule in the latest one.

And of course we would never endanger the Mon-Keigh allies.... That blatantly.

[Lost Soal]

Don't see such a rule in the latest one.

And of course we would never endanger the Mon-Keigh allies.... That blatantly.

Off target D-Cannon, Stumbling Titan, A grenade accidently falling out of the Swooping Hawks leg pack. There are soo many ways to hurt them.

[Lord Zentei]

Don't see such a rule in the latest one.

And of course we would never endanger the Mon-Keigh allies.... That blatantly.

It was a (frankly rather silly) rule from the 2nd edition when Wraithguard were essentially miniature dreadnaughts with Armour Value 10 on all sides - so small arms fire rattled off them like rain, but anything classed as heavy weapons scoured them pretty badly. They had their own damage result table of which a d6 roll of 5-6 resulted in a Warp Implosion sucking nearby models in. The reason I thought it was a mite silly was that Eldar soulcrafting tech should quite frankly be more reliable than all that, IMHO.

[SirNitram]

Don't see such a rule in the latest one.

And of course we would never endanger the Mon-Keigh allies.... That blatantly.

Off target D-Cannon, Stumbling Titan, A grenade accidently falling out of the Swooping Hawks leg pack. There are soo many ways to hurt them.

Indeed. Just from a thematic/fluff viewpoint, the concept of a Farseer and her force forced to ally with a greatly weakened Space Marine force for some extended period(Say, 'Nid invasion, Ork WAAAAGH, whatever) is innately interesting because they'd be ten seconds from turning on each other at all times.

[Lord Zentei]

Just reading the Rulebook gives a good idea of what you might enjoy to be honest.

Just so you know, theres a genuine 40k RPG in the works as well.

http://www.specialist-games.com/inquisitor/default.asp

Not to disparage your point, but to bew quite frank, I find that the Inquisitor game is not all that spectacular, IMHO.

[Lost Soal]

Don't see such a rule in the latest one.

And of course we would never endanger the Mon-Keigh allies.... That blatantly.

It was a (frankly rather silly) rule from the 2nd edition when Wraithguard were essentially miniature dreadnaughts with Armour Value 10 on all sides - so small arms fire rattled off them like rain, but anything classed as heavy weapons scoured them pretty badly. They had their own damage result table of which a d6 roll of 5-6 resulted in a Warp Implosion sucking nearby models in. The reason I thought it was a mite silly was that Eldar soulcrafting tech should quite frankly be more reliable than all that, IMHO.

Then they did the opposite for dreadnoughts in 3rd Ed, creating toughness 8 monsters, which all the beardy kids insisted on having. I think I saw a 500pt Eldar army with 3 of them in it quite regularly.

[Lord Zentei]

Then they did the opposite for dreadnoughts in 3rd Ed, creating toughness 8 monsters, which all the beardy kids insisted on having. I think I saw a 500pt Eldar army with 3 of them in it quite regularly.

Urgh. Read Gavin Thorpe's apologism for that horror on the 40K Eldar website. "All about how you use it", yadda yadda, and "I usually take two because it suits my style of play". No shit? Frankly, I'm too embarrased to be seen with the things.

One of the biggest problems with 3rd edition was that they failed to intergrate infantry and vehicles more closely IMO; that would have prevented this sort of thing.

[white_rabbit]

Just reading the Rulebook gives a good idea of what you might enjoy to be honest.

Just so you know, theres a genuine 40k RPG in the works as well.

http://www.specialist-games.com/inquisitor/default.asp

Not to disparage your point, but to bew quite frank, I find that the Inquisitor game is not all that spectacular, IMHO.

Well, I do appear to be calling the Inquisitor game a genuine RPG I suppose.

Rather I refer to the IIRC Green Ronin rpg, due out sometime end of this year I think.

Inquisitor is great for background info though, and myself, I find it pretty fun. So

[Lord Zentei]

Well, I do appear to be calling the Inquisitor game a genuine RPG I suppose.

Rather I refer to the IIRC Green Ronin rpg, due out sometime end of this year I think.

Ah, fair enough.

Inquisitor is great for background info though, and myself, I find it pretty fun. So

Ah, the game where you can shrug off sundry lascannon and meltagun shots. But the background info is good enough, I'll grant.

[Lazarus]

I've always wanted to play Battlefleet Gothic, but no one at my local store collected it, and the only models available were the starter set collection.

I've never really been a victim of wraith guard beardyness. I've heard lots of people complain about it but whenever I've faced one I just lascannoned it from across the board. Avatar's are more of a problem (80 pts! ), and of course the variant army which is all infiltrators and special rules, so before you've even started your first turn half your army has apparently got lost on the way to the battlefield, your tanks have no fuel, and there's a mysterious fog which means you can't shoot the enemy.

[white_rabbit]

Ah, the game where you can shrug off sundry lascannon and meltagun shots. Razz But the background info is good enough, I'll grant.

I prefer seeing how many heads explode once the psychic characters start nullifying each other

heh, end up with everyones Daemon Swords controlling them !

[Lord Zentei]

I've always wanted to play Battlefleet Gothic, but no one at my local store collected it, and the only models available were the starter set collection.

I've never really been a victim of wraith guard beardyness. I've heard lots of people complain about it but whenever I've faced one I just lascannoned it from across the board. Avatar's are more of a problem (80 pts! ), and of course the variant army which is all infiltrators and special rules, so before you've even started your first turn half your army has apparently got lost on the way to the battlefield, your tanks have no fuel, and there's a mysterious fog which means you can't shoot the enemy.

The beardyness of the Wraithlord is mostly evident in a 500 point army. You (hopefully don't) take three Wraithlords at 75 points each led by an Avatar at 80 points, for a total of 305 points. Then take minimal Guardian squads to fill up your mandatory Troops slots. This is an absolutely asinine combination, since very few 500 point armies can handle it. Later, they added the obliation to take a heavy weapon with each Wraithlord, so they were not quite as outrageously cheap as before. But IMHO, it did not go far enough: I would have made a limit of 0-1 Wraithlord per 500 army points, or better yet, give it an armour value of 12. There is no reason the Wraithlord cannot have an armour value just because the Wraithguard have a Toughness score.

This topic actually became banned in the 40K games design forums because of all the whiney little beardy gits wanted to keep their Wraithlords and the spineless "nanny mod / appeal to civility" culture rampant there prevented them from being smacked down.

As for the Avatar: the Greater Daemons of Chaos used to be a lot cheaper, specifically 80 points for the Great Unclean One, 105 points for the Keeper of Secrets and 115 points for the Lord of Change. They all had Toughness 6 (except for the Great Unclean One who had T5 and so got instakilled a lot by dreadnaughts ) and a 5+ invunreable save like the Avatar. However, they were then given better saves, special abilities and a much higher points cost in the new Chaos codex.

IMHO, the Avatar should clock in at around 160 points --- but in return have a 4+ invunreable save, that "Wailing Doom" sword of uber might should be something more than a mere close combat weapon (say +2 to wound) and it should be possible for a Farseer to summon him, like in Epic. If these points are followed, he is exactly matched against the Keeper of Secrets in close combat (which is appropriate for obvious reasons), and has the same cost to boot.