Sci-fi who beats who chart...

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-02-10 09:35pm

I think we should construct one and have it stickified for easy reference.

Add more universes/groups where appropriate or suggest changes.

System - *universe* (*name of dominant faction*)

SW (Empire) > 40K (Imperium) > ST (Federation) > Bablyon 5 (ISA)

Are there any definitive places for:

Stargate (Go'a'uld, Ancients, Asgard, Human/Tokra alliance)
S:AAB (UN, Chigs)
BSG (new and old varients)
Farscape
Andromeda
Lexx
Firefly

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-02-10 09:45pm

Try this.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Styphon · Post by **Styphon** » 2005-02-10 09:55pm

hmmm... now, when that old chart says Rifts, are they referring to the RPG by Palladium Books, or are they referring to some other Rifts I'm not aware of?

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2005-02-11 05:44am

fgalkin wrote:Try this.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Seems a bit out of date since it says (among others):
- WH40K > Star Wars
- SW New republic is on equal footing to basic ST powers

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-02-11 05:58am

weemadando wrote:<snip>

Are there any definitive places for:
<snip>
S:AAB (UN, Chigs)
<snip>

As much as I love S:AAB it is pretty low on the chart, this site has obtained the official S:AAB technical manual (as used by the shows SPFX people, and wardrobe and set departments) and the numbers are pretty low. Armament for the U.S.S. Saratoga SCVN-2812 includes;

Kinetic Particle Weapon
1.2GW Laser Pulse Cannon
2x450MW Laser Pulse Cannon
6x300MW Laser Pulse Cannon
30 Phalanx II Missile Launchers (unknown yield)
72 Torpedo Launchers (unknown yield)

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-02-11 06:23am

Ugh. The SB.com "Organisation chart" always annoys me.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-02-11 06:28am

What I always disliked it that A-F on that chart are "Gods....and more gods, but we're really not to sure, so we'll chalk up to gut feelings." And that's before the breakdown later.

All in all the chart is woefully outdated.

Styphon · Post by **Styphon** » 2005-02-11 05:21pm

also questionable is the listing of Rifts as just one thing, assuming Rifts is the Palladium RPG of that name...

I mean... Chipwell Armaments is a good deal weaker than the Main Book version of the Coalition States, which is weak compared to Coalition War Campaign, which gets its ass handed to it by a good deal of the Phase World/Three Galaxies stuff...

very odd...

plus it just seems really confusingly organized...

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2005-02-11 05:25pm

With their galaxy-destroying nano-bombs, I think that Jodorowsky's Metabarons should be at least as high as the Culture...

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2005-02-12 09:36pm

I assume that "40K" refers to all of the 40K universe, including Chaos, Necrons, etc, not just the Imperium of Man. And Rifts, too, probably refers to the entire planet of Rifts Earth. While I like the idea of this chart, I agree that it could use some updating and a more clarity. I for one see no reason, for instance, to separate "Arisia" from "Lensmen," when they are two components of the same Civilization.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-02-12 09:42pm

Why are the B5 first ones higher than the Galactic Empire? I thought they would be destroyed by them.

And the Krikkits should certainly be higher on that list, given their absurdly high industrial capacity (rickety, barely space-worthy ship to huge fleets of civilization-destroying starships in a few years) and their ability to build hand-held bombs that can destroy a sun.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-02-12 09:45pm

Damn, hit submit too soon.

I vaguely remember something about the Andromeda having low-gigaton weaponries, but the power setting of the overall universe was a bit contradictory since one week it was the most powerful ship in the galaxy and the next some normal warship posed a dire threat to it.

Farscape is almost impossible, since the only space combat we've ever seen has been either fighter-combat or Talyn blowing away ships with one shot. Ranges seem to be extremely short, but there's nothing about firepower or speed we can derive from the show (not that I've seen).

Firefly is also impossible, since we have no way to gauge either their speed or firepower (the only instance of space-weaponry we ever saw was a cruiser blowing up a derelict ship).

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-02-12 09:49pm

Although, we do know that the Ancients and John Chricton by himself (before the end of the Peacekeeper Wars) could destroy pretty much everyone except the "survive the end of the universe" types by using wormhole weapons.

Morat · Post by **Morat** » 2005-02-12 10:05pm

I vaguely remember something about the Andromeda having low-gigaton weaponries, but the power setting of the overall universe was a bit contradictory since one week it was the most powerful ship in the galaxy and the next some normal warship posed a dire threat to it.

Yes, low gigaton range weaponry. The total firepower of the Andromeda herself is in the mid-gigaton/second range (at short range), and she can withstand energy in the low gigaton/second range.

Glorious Heritage class ships (eg, the Andromeda) aren't the most powerful vessels in the six galaxies, and at the CW's height they were only among the most powerful. The Commonwealth fell 303 years before the show begins, and the only reason that the Andromeda is still impressive is because most of the civilizations in the galaxy have been in a dark age during that time. However, there are exceptions. The Pyrians have continued to grow and advance in the centuries since the Commonwealth fell, as they were never part of the Commonwealth. The Knights of Genetic Purity have also managed to continue advancing their technology (though not very quickly, due to their small size).

You're probably thinking of Pitiless as the Sun, in which the Andromeda faces a Pyrian Torch Ship (it was a big glowy thing, right?). Its hardly surprising that the far more advanced Pyrian capital ship would be able to defeat the Andromeda.

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2005-02-12 10:10pm

Xeelee
C'Tan
Culture
Full power Necrons
IoM
Orcs
Nids
Galatic Empire
Tau
Terran Federation (Book SST)
Bugs (Book SST)
Eldar
Honorverse
Dark Eldar
Protoss
Goa'uld
New (aka Proper) Cylons
Borg
Dominion
Romulans
Loroi (Outsider)
Umiak (Diddo)
Taiidan (at there Height)
Hiigarans
Turanic Raiders
Kushan
Federation
Cardies
Gundam
Domination of Draka (as of 1998)
Modern Day Earth
ID4 Aliens
The Race
Civil War US
Any Duneverse power
Pax Romana
Klingons
Signers

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-02-12 10:14pm

Civil War US
Any Duneverse power

Huh? Dune has nukes and lasers. The only reason they don't use them is because of shields, which the civil war-era US is sadly lacking in.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2005-02-12 10:17pm

Where does the Hyperion PAX fit in? What about post PAX Hyperionverse?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2005-02-12 11:28pm

fgalkin wrote:Try this.

That is an exceedingly stupid chart and the product of SB's petty versus lobbyists.

If we are to make a power level chart, we should decide upon what playing field each faction would be judged. A few of my ideas:

Industrial capacity
Population
Ground combat
Space combat

There could also be some sort of benchmark.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2005-02-12 11:31pm

High up.

The Pax is of unknown size, but potentially a galactic level power, and their FTL capabilities are either slow and relativity bound, or liable to render squished anyone using them, but their weapons are ungodly powerful at times.

Post-Pax we don't know enough about, but they can build things like the Shrike, and seem happily able to freecast through space and time, so they're probably up with the lower omnipotents.

Duken · Post by **Duken** » 2005-02-13 12:16am

Zor wrote:Xeelee
C'Tan
Culture

I know the C'Tan are badass but are they really that far up the ladder?

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2005-02-13 01:05am

HemlockGrey wrote:
Civil War US
Any Duneverse power
Huh? Dune has nukes and lasers. The only reason they don't use them is because of shields, which the civil war-era US is sadly lacking in.

With there sort of Ritualistic warfare, i doub't that the shere shock value of a US Cavalry Charge would be ineffective. But i conseede, change it to Fremen.

Zor

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2005-02-13 01:14am

Xeelee
C'Tan
Culture
Full power Necrons
Foundationverse
Pax
IoM
Orcs
Nids
Galatic Empire
Tau
Terran Federation (Book SST)
Bugs (Book SST)
Eldar
System's Commonwealth (At it's Height)
Magogs
Honorverse
Dark Eldar
Zerg
Protoss
Terrans (Starcraft)
Goa'uld
New (aka Proper) Cylons
Borg
Dominion
Romulans
Loroi (Outsider)
Umiak (Diddo)
Taiidan (at there Height)
Hiigarans
Turanic Raiders
Kadesh
Federation
Cardies
Terrans (outsider)
Gundam
Domination of Draka (as of 1998)
United Earth Oceans
Modern Day Earth
ID4 Aliens
The Race
United Citizen's Federation (Movie SST)
Civil War US
Fremens
Pax Romana
Middle Earth
Klingons
Signers

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-02-13 01:16am

Pax
IoM
Orcs
Nids
Galatic Empire

IoM beats the GE? The PAX beats the GE despite being a millionth of its size?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2005-02-13 01:22am

fgalkin wrote:
Pax
IoM
Orcs
Nids
Galatic Empire
IoM beats the GE? The PAX beats the GE despite being a millionth of its size?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

One of there battleships can destroy a moon from Several AUs away.

Zor

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-02-13 01:37am

Who the IoM? Or the PAX?

Besides, it is irrelevant. The GE outnumbers the IoM planets 50 to 1, and the PAX, millions to one. Each PAX Archangel would be facing thousands of Star Destroyers.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

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