Imperial Guard Stormtrooper vs Master Cheif

[Zor]

Ok, One IoM Stormie vs Master Cheif.

Setting-Downtown Chicago Illinois, Full population, 2004, Starting distance of 300 meters.

Armament-Master Cheif
M6D Pistols, 3 Mags
M90 Shotgun, 2 mags
MA5B Assault Rifle, 6 mags
Covenant Plasma Pistol (Full Charge)
Covenant Plasma Rifle (Full Charge)
2 Halo Human hand Grenades
Knife

Stormtrooper
Hellgun Rifle (4 Clips)
Laspistol (2 clips)
Bolter (2 Clips)
2 Imperial Hand Grenades
Chainsword
Carapace Armor

They each know were the other is to start with, and have a map of the city (and yes, there are people in the city, and while killing is nether required to either of the two future troopers, killing in the crossfire is not forbiddon)

FIGHT!

[NecronLord]

A stormtrooper's just a man. A brave, dedicated, loyal man who was raised a warrior, but still a man.

'Master Chief' is some kind of superman.

[Black Admiral]

A Kaskrin would be marginally fairer, but even so, a Stormtrooper might be the peak of human strength, speed, etc.

The Master Chief killed three people on that level by accident while recovering from being very nearly killed by the augmentation procedures he'd undergone.

[Shaidar Haran]

A Kaskrin would be marginally fairer, but even so, a Stormtrooper might be the peak of human strength, speed, etc.

Yes, and depending on which brand of 40K stormtrooper it is, they might actually stand a decent chance. Some of the Inquisition Stormtroopers might be damn hard to kill, as would a Cadian or Krieg Death Corps or anothe high end stormtrooper.

The Master Chief killed three people on that level by accident while recovering from being very nearly killed by the augmentation procedures he'd undergone.

And a single Hellgun shot that connects is likely to put the Master Cheif down for good. So it's not as one sided a fight.,

[Black Admiral]

And a single Hellgun shot that connects is likely to put the Master Cheif down for good. So it's not as one sided a fight.,

Actually, I doubt it.

In First Strike the Chief survives a direct hit from a Fuel Rod Gun, which does this:

The blast had knocked Harland and his team into the mud. They ran to where they had left the lieutenant- found fused glassy mud, a crater, and a few burning corpses and bits of carbonized skeleton.

Note that the group that got fried was the better part of three squads (~12 men apiece) of UNSC Marines.

[Shaidar Haran]

And a single Hellgun shot that connects is likely to put the Master Cheif down for good. So it's not as one sided a fight.,

Actually, I doubt it.

In First Strike the Chief survives a direct hit from a Fuel Rod Gun, which does this:

The blast had knocked Harland and his team into the mud. They ran to where they had left the lieutenant- found fused glassy mud, a crater, and a few burning corpses and bits of carbonized skeleton.

Note that the group that got fried was the better part of three squads (~12 men apiece) of UNSC Marines.

But what about the direct hit the Master Cheif suffered? And is there any more mentioned that gives us more detailed portrayal of the damage it can do? Becuase that hardly seemes reliable.

Compared to solid enough figures for a las-gun. Which gives a us a pretty good baseline to determine a Hellguns potential. And given what Necron Lord has posted about a standard issue las-gun being 18 MJ, and given a Hellgun is a upgunned las-rifle that puts it well with in the range of anti-tank weapons.

[Black Admiral]

From First Strike, page 200:

On the third gallery off the floor of the great room, at the four o'clock position, a Hunter pair roared with anger. They raised their fuel rod cannons and then leveled their weapons - and fired.

Kelly moved before anyone: she was a blur of motion and stepped in front of Dr. Halsey. John and Fred moved to either side of Kelly, while Anton grabbed the Admiral and threw the older man behind them.

The blinding white-hot plasma charges struck the Spartans' shields and washed over their chests.

John's shield drained completely. The overpressure forced him to take a step backward, and the skin on his forearms blistered.

Then the heat was gone, and he blinked away the black spots that swarmed his vision. Kelly lay at his feet. Her armour smouldered and hydrostatic gel boiled from the release vent along her left side.

[Shaidar Haran]

From First Strike, page 200:

On the third gallery off the floor of the great room, at the four o'clock position, a Hunter pair roared with anger. They raised their fuel rod cannons and then leveled their weapons - and fired.

Kelly moved before anyone: she was a blur of motion and stepped in front of Dr. Halsey. John and Fred moved to either side of Kelly, while Anton grabbed the Admiral and threw the older man behind them.

The blinding white-hot plasma charges struck the Spartans' shields and washed over their chests.

John's shield drained completely. The overpressure forced him to take a step backward, and the skin on his forearms blistered.

Then the heat was gone, and he blinked away the black spots that swarmed his vision. Kelly lay at his feet. Her armour smouldered and hydrostatic gel boiled from the release vent along her left side.

To be honest, that doesn't really scream direct hit to me. If half what you're saying about it's lethality is true a near miss might do it as well.

[Black Admiral]

To be honest, that doesn't really scream direct hit to me.

The fact that it hit the shields is a fairly strong indicator. Those only extend perhaps 8-9mm off the armour's surface.

If half what you're saying about it's lethality is true a near miss might do it as well.

Well, in The Flood, the Chief survives being hit in the chest dead-on by an FRG, but I'm inclined to take that with a grain of salt, considering The Flood's inconsistencies in various other areas, like the FRG rounds punching through someone rather than exploding on contact.

[Shaidar Haran]

To be honest, that doesn't really scream direct hit to me.

The fact that it hit the shields is a fairly strong indicator. Those only extend perhaps 8-9mm off the armour's surface.

That he got hit yes, that it was a direct hit no. For one thing that it talks about it washing over the sheilds suggests to me at least that it was a glancing hit, not a direct one.

If half what you're saying about it's lethality is true a near miss might do it as well.

Well, in The Flood, the Chief survives being hit in the chest dead-on by an FRG, but I'm inclined to take that with a grain of salt, considering The Flood's inconsistencies in various other areas, like the FRG rounds punching through someone rather than exploding on contact.

You'd know better than I.

[Kuja]

In addition, it looks to me like all four of them soaked up the damage from the two shots, and they still put one of them on the ground and totally drained another's shield.

[Alyeska]

Given the power talked about by the Fuel Rod gun and that 7.62mm rounds are infact dangerous to Spartans, I am inclined to agree that the three Spartans took splash damage from a near impact. Impressive, but not as impressive as a direct hit.

[Connor MacLeod]

Given the mention of "overpressure" it looks like the bolts acted like bombs (given the described effects probably between a couple GJ as an order-of-magnitude estimate), so yeah, we're probably talking about a fraction of the overall blast, divided among the entire frontal surface are of four(?) shields.

The only problem I can see is that it mentions who presumably unshielded, unmodified humans - what sort of effects did they suffer (its quite possible they should have been harmed indirectly to some degree.)

[Black Admiral]

Given the mention of "overpressure" it looks like the bolts acted like bombs (given the described effects probably between a couple GJ as an order-of-magnitude estimate), so yeah, we're probably talking about a fraction of the overall blast, divided among the entire frontal surface are of four(?) shields.

Three shields I think. Anton wasn't mentioned as being injured later - well, anymore then he had been earlier anyway.

The only problem I can see is that it mentions who presumably unshielded, unmodified humans - what sort of effects did they suffer (its quite possible they should have been harmed indirectly to some degree.)

It's not mentioned what injuries, but Dr. Halsey I suspect was fine, thanks to the space-warping properties of the Slipspace crystal she was holding. Whitcomb OTOH I'm not sure about. He might have been under the crystal's AOE and he might not have been.

[Black Admiral]

That he got hit yes, that it was a direct hit no. For one thing that it talks about it washing over the sheilds suggests to me at least that it was a glancing hit, not a direct one.

That's part of what FRG rounds do. On contact, they 'explode' when the containment field goes down.

You'd know better than I.

That's not the only inconsistency - Alyeska's got quite a list of them - just the one that occured to me first.

[constantine]

and that 7.62mm rounds are infact dangerous to Spartans,

Where did you get this from?

[Alyeska]

and that 7.62mm rounds are infact dangerous to Spartans,

Where did you get this from?

TFOR. John comments to himself that if he's not careful the MA5B rounds will drain his shields very quickly and be dangerous. This is when he was testing the new shield systems. As good as the armor and shields are, they can't completely stop .30cal fire and will take damage after a moderate sustained attack. Indications are if you were to take a MA5B and empty its entire clip point blank into a Spartan, they will go down. This is far less firepower then the Fuel Rod Cannon sports.

[constantine]

and that 7.62mm rounds are infact dangerous to Spartans,

Where did you get this from?

TFOR. John comments to himself that if he's not careful the MA5B rounds will drain his shields very quickly and be dangerous. This is when he was testing the new shield systems. As good as the armor and shields are, they can't completely stop .30cal fire and will take damage after a moderate sustained attack. Indications are if you were to take a MA5B and empty its entire clip point blank into a Spartan, they will go down. This is far less firepower then the Fuel Rod Cannon sports.

Ah, I see. This must have been the Mark V Armor.

It should be noted, however, that the Mark VI now has twice the shield strength as the Mark V (First Strike pg 140) so it's quite possible it would take two full clips to down the shields - which is still less firepower than the FRG anyways...

[Black Admiral]

Ah, I see. This must have been the Mark V Armor.

It should be noted, however, that the Mark VI now has twice the shield strength as the Mark V (First Strike pg 140) so it's quite possible it would take two full clips to down the shields - which is still less firepower than the FRG anyways...

constantine, you're one mark ahead. The Mark V is the one with the doubled shield strength (FS, page 134, Fred and Will take the components from storage packs labelled MJOLNIR Mark V).

[Connor MacLeod]

It's not mentioned what injuries, but Dr. Halsey I suspect was fine, thanks to the space-warping properties of the Slipspace crystal she was holding. Whitcomb OTOH I'm not sure about. He might have been under the crystal's AOE and he might not have been.

Er.. this mysterious crystal was explicitly mentioned to be s hielding her? Then it would also be problematic for the shield calcs, since that creates the possibility that this crystal's effects were affecting others too (only partially, perhaps.)

[Connor MacLeod]

and that 7.62mm rounds are infact dangerous to Spartans,

Where did you get this from?

TFOR. John comments to himself that if he's not careful the MA5B rounds will drain his shields very quickly and be dangerous. This is when he was testing the new shield systems. As good as the armor and shields are, they can't completely stop .30cal fire and will take damage after a moderate sustained attack. Indications are if you were to take a MA5B and empty its entire clip point blank into a Spartan, they will go down. This is far less firepower then the Fuel Rod Cannon sports.

There are several things here that might factor in:

1.) a rifle bullet involves both kinetic energy and momentum. The shield may have more trouble with that sort of combination.

2.) the rifle's bullet is affecting a much smaller area generally than an omnidirectional blast (which seems to be the particular case based on that quote), which might also affect calcs.

[Black Admiral]

Er.. this mysterious crystal was explicitly mentioned to be shielding her? Then it would also be problematic for the shield calcs, since that creates the possibility that this crystal's effects were affecting others too (only partially, perhaps.)

The crystal's odd. Amongst other things, it managed to warp Slipspace so that the Ascendant Justice arrived at Reach in time for the Chief to rescue Halsey and the others, disable the gravity lift of a Covenant cruiser, and create a bubble of Slipspace.

Of course, it might not have shielded Dr. Halsey, and she does say that when her group first approached the thing it warped space. I'd say however that it was more likely a combination of Kelly getting between the good doctor and the blast, and the covienient tunnels to duck into.

[Luzifer's right hand]

It's not mentioned what injuries, but Dr. Halsey I suspect was fine, thanks to the space-warping properties of the Slipspace crystal she was holding. Whitcomb OTOH I'm not sure about. He might have been under the crystal's AOE and he might not have been.

Er.. this mysterious crystal was explicitly mentioned to be s hielding her? Then it would also be problematic for the shield calcs, since that creates the possibility that this crystal's effects were affecting others too (only partially, perhaps.)

It's not mentioned that the crystal was shielding here IIRC.

[Alyeska]

Where did you get this from?

TFOR. John comments to himself that if he's not careful the MA5B rounds will drain his shields very quickly and be dangerous. This is when he was testing the new shield systems. As good as the armor and shields are, they can't completely stop .30cal fire and will take damage after a moderate sustained attack. Indications are if you were to take a MA5B and empty its entire clip point blank into a Spartan, they will go down. This is far less firepower then the Fuel Rod Cannon sports.

Ah, I see. This must have been the Mark V Armor.

It should be noted, however, that the Mark VI now has twice the shield strength as the Mark V (First Strike pg 140) so it's quite possible it would take two full clips to down the shields - which is still less firepower than the FRG anyways...

John was concerned about loosing shields and he only took minor bursts to begin with. I have no doubt that even the newest Mark armor could also be defeated by a full clip of MA5B fire.

[constantine]

John was concerned about loosing shields and he only took minor bursts to begin with. I have no doubt that even the newest Mark armor could also be defeated by a full clip of MA5B fire.

Are you thinking of the part on pg 258?

No. That kind of thinking was dangerous. The shield was useful but under combined fire it dropped very quickly. He was tough...not invincible.

The bolding is mine.

As you can see, it mentions 'combined fire' which suggests two or more. Even when faced against 7, Master Chief doesn't appear to be in any danger:

Seven more soldiers. The Master Chief could open fire now and kill them all. Under any other circumstances, he would have removed such threats. But their MA5Bs were no immediate danger to him...