Tuvix????

[CNS Sarajevo]

I never watched much of ST:VOY, but I recently heard about an episode where Tuvok and Neelix were merged into one being in a transporter accident. Then this new creature was murdered to bring the two characters back!

This has probably been debated a million times already, but I was surprised not to see it in the database. SO, in case it hasn't been debated....

This is a web site with a summary of the episode:

http://www.treknews.com/deltablues/tuvix.html

So much for ST claims to higher morality and respect for "new life forms". What gives Janeway the right to decide Tuvix's fate? A captain can give someone an order to sacrifice their lives, but not to simply kill themselves because they liked you better "the other way".

I think it changes the William Riker/Thomas Riker issue too. If Tuvix is only a malfunction, the Rikers are only half men, since they were caused by a power surge.

[Alyeska]

Actually they brought up the morality issue in the episode itself, but thank Janeway for killing what seemed like a marginally annoying character to bring back a maddeningly annoying character (Neelix).

IIRC the point the episode tried to give was that while Tuvix might have wanted to live, it was the unwanted combination of two other sentient creatures who if given a choice would not want to remain together. It was a classic case of the greater good. The free will and life of the two seperate entities has a greater claim then the combined versions. Kinda like when people get taken into the Borg. They might act like they want to stay in the Borg, but that is not their true personality talking, not the individual.

[Evil Jerk]

But the fact is Tuvok and Neelix were dead.
Their DNA was combined to make a "son", but they were killed in the process.
In essence, Janeway sacrificed one lifeform to ressurect two others.

But I doubt the Trek writers grasped that, they have little knowledge of real science, morality or how the world really works, or we wouldn't have gotten "Tuvix", or "Dear Doctor" (ENT) for that matter.

[CNS Sarajevo]

Actually they brought up the morality issue in the episode itself, but thank Janeway for killing what seemed like a marginally annoying character to bring back a maddeningly annoying character (Neelix).

LOL

IIRC the point the episode tried to give was that while Tuvix might have wanted to live, it was the unwanted combination of two other sentient creatures who if given a choice would not want to remain together. It was a classic case of the greater good. The free will and life of the two seperate entities has a greater claim then the combined versions. Kinda like when people get taken into the Borg. They might act like they want to stay in the Borg, but that is not their true personality talking, not the individual.

I think this claim could be made of either of the two was alive, separate from Tuvix. Let's say there are inseparable parts of his brain that are the psyches of the separate individuals. Tuvix starts to go insane as those individuals try to break free. Etc. etc.

In this case, we have a completely new entity. Its thoughts and feelings are unique. With the Borg, a creature is hijacked and forcibly controlled against its will by implanted technology. These creatures have thoughts and feelings of their own but are unable to resist--Picard mentions this in "Family."

We can speculate that they'd want to be separated, and I think they would too, but they aren't here to do it. Tuvok, as a Star Fleet science officer, might not want to, because he might value the creation of a new species and its rights more than his own life!

As I see it, Neelix and Tuvok died in that accident and the new creature has as much right to live as anyone.

[David]

Topic moved.

[Patrick Degan]

Essentially, the Voyager's transporters got confused by orchid spores when Tuvok and Neelix were attempting to beam up while carrying up the plant itself, leading to the three-way cross between robotic Vulcan, ultra-annoying Talaxian, and a wildflower.

The crew lived with this walking accident for several months before Janeway decided that the rights of two dead crewmen outweighed one living being who had actually been alive and sentient for all that period. Tuvix' last desperate plea fell upon cold, deaf ears, and realising that he was more or less doomed, resigned himself to his fate as he was frog-marched from the bridge to sickbay to be seperated, or in effect, murdered.

Meanwhile, the wild space orchid dissolved into non-existence with nobody aware that the thought "Oh no, not again!" flitted through its consciousness.

[Singular Quartet]

Essentially, the Voyager's transporters got confused by orchid spores when Tuvok and Neelix were attempting to beam up while carrying up the plant itself, leading to the three-way cross between robotic Vulcan, ultra-annoying Talaxian, and a wildflower.

The crew lived with this walking accident for several months before Janeway decided that the rights of two dead crewmen outweighed one living being who had actually been alive and sentient for all that period. Tuvix' last desperate plea fell upon cold, deaf ears, and realising that he was more or less doomed, resigned himself to his fate as he was frog-marched from the bridge to sickbay to be seperated, or in effect, murdered.

Yep, that sounds like Voyager. "Lets help the Borg!!"

Meanwhile, the wild space orchid dissolved into non-existence with nobody aware that the thought "Oh no, not again!" flitted through its consciousness.

Nope, wouldn't work. If you ever read "Life, the Universe, and Everything," you'd understand.

[Patrick Degan]

Meanwhile, the wild space orchid dissolved into non-existence with nobody aware that the thought "Oh no, not again!" flitted through its consciousness.

Nope, wouldn't work. If you ever read "Life, the Universe, and Everything," you'd understand.

Don't worry, SQ, I've read LU&E. Rest assured.

[paladin]

Actually they brought up the morality issue in the episode itself, but thank Janeway for killing what seemed like a marginally annoying character to bring back a maddeningly annoying character (Neelix).

I strongly agree. Neelix was one FUCKING ANNOYING ASSHOLE.