Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply

What would you rate it, on a scale of 1 (Absolute trash) to 10 (Pure Gold)

1
1
6%
2
0
No votes
3
1
6%
4
0
No votes
5
2
13%
6
3
19%
7
5
31%
8
3
19%
9
0
No votes
10
1
6%
 
Total votes: 16

User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10172
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Solauren »

Long Delayed, it's now out.

Overall, I enjoyed it.

I agree with my wife, however, their is so much they left out they should have included.

i.e.
More of Natasha evading Ross
More of Natasha heading to Budapest
Flashbacks to Natasha and Clint in Budapest (enough to hint at and cause even more demand for a Black Widow/Hawkeye movie)
Possible Elaine fleeing after her mind was free.
More about Elaine's time serving the Red Room
More in the Red Room, possibly hinting that the Red Room was as much a Hydra project as it was Soviet.
Possibly a flashback to Natasha as a Widow with a cameo by Bucky as the Winter Soldier
Possibly a flashback showing the reason Red Guardian was tossed in prison (a nice tough would be was because he tried to get Elaina and Natasha out of the Widow program)
Possibly a flashback showing Melina's time as a Widow. Possibly one showing her being blackmailed with Natasha's life to keep working for the Red Room.

Yeah, that's enough to make it two movies. However, as my wife pointed out when we were discussing the movie afterwards
Really, it felt like two movies. The first one a gritty spy movie, up to the rescue of Red Guardian. The second they went after Red Guardian, it become a super-hero movie.


I understand why people might have complained about Task Master, but, without mutants running around, cyborg augmentation is a good explanation.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11863
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith »

I loved it. blew my socks off. I don't know if it's just not having gone to the cinema since like the last marvel tentpole. pre-pandemic but I loved the experience.

I thought it was a little odd that Black Widow got her ass kicked quite so often in her own movie. I mean it felt realistic that she lost or stalemated the fights. Taskmaster not knowing their abilities, Yelena's her equal as a Black Widow and then vs 20 odd Widows of course she's not going to win. But it's her solo movie... and I thought they could have done more with the final fight with Taskmaster.

it was fun seeing Taskmaster and trying to figure who's movies they were copying. I caught Black Widow's own moves. Cap's, Hawkeye's, Black Panther's and I think Winter Soldier's knifeplay?

I'm a big Hawkeye fan though so I was so they didn't use the bow more. And that leads me onto the final stinger, like the one from Spider-man: Far From Home, just drove the rest of the film out my mind had my jaw dropping and going holy fuck in the cinema. Yelena vs Clint? I really really hope that's getting a follow up Hawkeye.

eta: I assumed if people were complaining about Taskmaster, it would be their revised origin story/identity not the cybernetics
User avatar
Lost Soal
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2614
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Lost Soal »

Overall I enjoyed the movie, but Taskmaster was played up then ultimately cast aside, we very little of the fight with Red Guardian he seems to lose their abilities at the end for a quick defeat. Also that 2 weeks later jump was such bullshit.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10172
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Solauren »

Lost Soal wrote: 2021-07-15 01:32am Overall I enjoyed the movie, but Taskmaster was played up then ultimately cast aside, we very little of the fight with Red Guardian he seems to lose their abilities at the end for a quick defeat. Also that 2 weeks later jump was such bullshit.
The two week later jump was annoying for us as well. HOW did she get away from Ross and co? Is that how Cap knew where to find the Raft?

Like I said, you could have filled in the holes and gotten 2 movies out of it.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
EnterpriseSovereign
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3997
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Yes, Red Guardian didn't do an awful lot after his escape from prison, it's implied that he'd had some Winter-soldier type super serum. In many ways he was like Endgame!Thor: fat and out of shape.

They did make use of the disguise tech first seen in Cap: Winter Soldier only they took it a stage further with a straight swap. They also used some tricks from the Mission Impossible series by showing that it was their intention to first get the bad guy to reveal how he was controlling his agents and wanted to trick him into breaking his own pheromone-lock. The whole "severing the nerve" thing was such bullshit though- it takes far more than a simple broken nose to do what they were attempting.

I was also looking forward to flashbacks with Hawkeye, instead of more details on what happened in Budapest all we learned was that they hid in an air-vent passageway for two days.

In the stinger they had Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (from Falcon and the Winter Soldier) pop up and set Yelena against Hawkeye believing he's responsible for Widow's death. How she came to know what went down on Vormir is not explained as the only other individual present was Red Skull. Unless Cap spilled the beans on what happened during that mission.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10172
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Solauren »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2021-07-28 01:43pm In the stinger they had Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (from Falcon and the Winter Soldier) pop up and set Yelena against Hawkeye believing he's responsible for Widow's death. How she came to know what went down on Vormir is not explained as the only other individual present was Red Skull. Unless Cap spilled the beans on what happened during that mission.
Perhaps she's making it up (and doesn't know, and got lucky that he was connected) and just wants him dead?
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23145
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by LadyTevar »

Solauren wrote: 2021-07-28 03:02pm
EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2021-07-28 01:43pm In the stinger they had Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (from Falcon and the Winter Soldier) pop up and set Yelena against Hawkeye believing he's responsible for Widow's death. How she came to know what went down on Vormir is not explained as the only other individual present was Red Skull. Unless Cap spilled the beans on what happened during that mission.
Perhaps she's making it up (and doesn't know, and got lucky that he was connected) and just wants him dead?
If Valentina Allegra de Fontaine is anything close to the comics, she's got connections to SHIELD and HYDRA. Either one would get her that information.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10172
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Solauren »

The question is, would Hydra or Shield HAVE that information? I can't see the Avengers admitting they have Time Travel technology. That would bring everyone looking into it.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16285
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Gandalf »

The Avengers have historically had an interesting relationship with security, so it doesn't seem a stretch for it to be sitting in a file somewhere.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11863
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith »

As far as the movies are concerned shield and hydra don't exist any more. They still exist in AoS but that's not really in continuity with the movies.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10172
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Solauren »

SHIELD and Hydra probably do exist still, but not openly/publically. for Shield, all you need is a high level official to gather up some pieces and reorganize it. For Hydra, all you need is someone from hydra to escape notice, with access to some of their resources.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16285
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Gandalf »

At the end of Infinity War, Fury's "code red" was presumably meant for someone, so a downsized SHIELD is possible.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
GuppyShark
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2829
Joined: 2005-03-13 06:52am
Location: South Australia

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by GuppyShark »

Didn't Stark hoover up a bunch of SHIELD folk?
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11863
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith »

GuppyShark wrote: 2021-07-29 11:56am Didn't Stark hoover up a bunch of SHIELD folk?
Stark hired Maria Hill. Who was basically just spying on him for Fury as per AoU.

Fury has enough of an organisation left to skeleton crew a helicarrier but it's very ambigious from the films where/what/how this happened and what kind of resources and authority he has with him. He seemed to be running the Avengers support staff at the end of AoU but it all vanished by the time Civil War appeared.

According to Agents of SHIELD, SHIELD went underground a fought HYDRA for a bit before becoming rehabilitated and official again. This will never ever be referenced by the movies.
EnterpriseSovereign
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3997
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm

Re: Black Widow movie (Spoilers!)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

It's here:
Post Reply