Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by mr friendly guy »

https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... s.html?m=1
SUNDAY, 23 AUGUST 2020
Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK
The location of seven currently-officially-missing episodes of Doctor Who has been confirmed by episode hunter Philip Morris, currently leading efforts to recover the missing material. Negotiations are underway to get the missing material returned to the BBC


As was common at the time (from its inception until the 1970s), the BBC used to produce television programmes with no expectation that they would ever be repeated or commercially released. Once aired, it was common for the tapes containing TV shows to be wiped and re-used to save money. Doctor Who was a victim of this process, with 147 episodes junked between 1967 and 1978. These episodes consisted almost entirely of material from the First and Second Doctors (William Hartnell and Patrick Troughton), the first six seasons of the show, aired from 1963 to 1969 and filmed in black-and-white, which was considered even less valuable in the colour era. Some material from the Third Doctor, Jon Pertwee, was also destroyed, but later recovered via black-and-white copies that were digitally re-colourised.

The advent of the home video format in the late 1970s and intervention from fans made the BBC change its mind quite rapidly and almost as soon as it stopped the purge of its archives in 1978 it began trying to reclaim the lost material. In some cases BBC engineers had saved episodes and kept them safely at home, or sold them to private collectors. The most valuable resource, however, was the BBC's foreign sales department. Since Doctor Who began in 1963, it had been sold widely abroad, particularly in the Commonwealth, and in many cases those countries had hung onto their copies of old episodes. Between 1978 and 2013, 50 missing episodes of Doctor Who were recovered from these sources and returned to the archives.

This now leaves 97 episodes - one eighth of the total number of episodes of the entire series - missing. 26 serials are affected, with 10 serials completely missing altogether.

The last time missing material was returned to the archive was in 2013, when Philip Morris recovered nine missing episodes from a TV station in Nigeria. These episodes constituted all of the missing material from the serial The Enemy of the World and four of the five missing episodes from the immediately succeeding serial, The Web of Fear. In the case of The Web of Fear, it was revealed that the remaining missing episode (the third) had also been identified, but had been removed from the station by persons unknown before the rest of the serial was sent back to the UK.

Morris has since confirmed that the identity of the people who took the episode has become known and very delicate negotiations undertaken to hopefully return the episode.

Five additional episodes were recovered by Doctor Who fan Ian Levine the same year from Taiwan, but these were additional copies of episodes already in the archives. Nevertheless, the discovery promoted renewed interest in Taiwan as a location of interest to episode hunters.

During the Time Space Visualiser 2 online event earlier this year, Morris confirmed that "at least" six more episodes currently officially listed as missing have been identified in the hands of private collectors. The principle block to them being secured is not money, but rather the fear of the collectors that fans might learn their identities and berate or harass them. Even more delicate negotiations to secure the anonymity of these collectors are required before they can be returned to the BBC archives.

The hunt for the missing episodes has gained some urgency in recent years. 1960s BBC film stock is fairly durable, but after being left in tin cans in dusty back shelves of basements in places like Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong and Nigeria, it's possible that some old stock will have become unusable: some reports have surfaced of promising leads ending only in old warped cans filled with unidentifiable goop that may have once been film stock. It is also already known that at least one TV station in Sierra Leone had a very large stock of the missing episodes (almost all of them, according to some records) before being levelled to the ground in the civil war in that country in the late 1990s. Time is not on the hunters' side here, but it is good to know at least some more missing episodes from the show have survived.
It doesn't mentioned which 7 missing episodes there are, but hopefully its enough to do a complete Web of Fear. This was the first appearance of Lethbridge Stewart, and notice I didn't say Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart. Because he wasn't a Brigadier then.

Generally I enjoy Troughton stories more than Hartnell's, but if it was Hartnell, I hope they have episodes from the Dalek Masterplan, the longest ever Doctor Who story.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
B5B7
Jedi Knight
Posts: 781
Joined: 2005-10-22 02:02am
Location: Perth Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by B5B7 »

This practice by the BBC is unforgiveable, especially as it continued till almost 1980. Meanwhile in the USA one has 1950s shows that are preserved, and of course 1960s shows like Star Trek. Of course, Doctor Who seems to have been a special victim of this, and perhaps other series were luckier.
TVWP: "Janeway says archly, "Sometimes it's the female of the species that initiates mating." Is the female of the species trying to initiate mating now? Janeway accepts Paris's apology and tells him she's putting him in for a commendation. The salamander sex was that good."
"Not bad - for a human"-Bishop to Ripley
GALACTIC DOMINATION Empire Board Game visit link below:
GALACTIC DOMINATION
User avatar
Bedlam
Jedi Master
Posts: 1494
Joined: 2006-09-23 11:12am
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by Bedlam »

B5B7 wrote: 2020-08-25 03:45am This practice by the BBC is unforgiveable, especially as it continued till almost 1980. Meanwhile in the USA one has 1950s shows that are preserved, and of course 1960s shows like Star Trek. Of course, Doctor Who seems to have been a special victim of this, and perhaps other series were luckier.
Many shows were far less lucky, take Dixon of Dock Green, 432 episodes made only 32 exist in fill and clips from another 19. It's just that Dr Who has had a big enough (and some might say obsessive enough) fan base to keep looking for copies of the episodes. A great help is that there's a complete set of the socundtrack to all the episodes due to fans wiring tape recorders into their TVs. There have been entirely new techniques for recovering and rebuilding information from damaged film and video created just to get Dr Who episodes into a watchable format.
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by mr friendly guy »

Given that the practice went on till almost 1980, its lucky enough that Doctor Who still has all the episodes from the Pertwee era (although missing the coloured versions) and all episodes from Tom Baker era (1974 to 1981).
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10172
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by Solauren »

Why would collectors be afraid of Dr. Who fans berating them? Its entirely possible for collectors to have something in their collection and not realise it at the time they learn about it being needed elsewhere.

These private collectors are literally saving part of history. Why would we berate them?
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Khaat
Jedi Master
Posts: 1033
Joined: 2008-11-04 11:42am

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by Khaat »

I'm thinking the anticipated berating is more of, "the BBC has been collecting the lost episodes for years, why wait so long to work to return them? Grrr!"
But it is the Internet *shrug*
Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says.
Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule #3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule #4: Be outraged.
Rule #5: Don’t make compromises.
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by Formless »

Solauren wrote: 2020-08-25 07:22am Why would collectors be afraid of Dr. Who fans berating them? Its entirely possible for collectors to have something in their collection and not realise it at the time they learn about it being needed elsewhere.

These private collectors are literally saving part of history. Why would we berate them?
Dr. Who fandom has long suspected that the missing episodes are in the hands of private collectors, with the stereotype being that they're holding on to them waiting for the financial value to go up before revealing that they had them all along. The reality that the film is degrading with time and thus ruining any investment this might represent is lost on some people. But either way, finding out that indeed some of the lost episodes are in the hands of collectors means those collectors have legitimate reason to worry about harassment due to the stereotype. The fact these collectors aren't concerned with money (because again, the film reels will need considerable restoration work that only the BBC can justify paying for) will absolutely be lost on some people. Because fandom and the internet isn't known for its rationality, is it?
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10172
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by Solauren »

So, basically, idiots with mad-up minds, not-based on reality?
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.

It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by Formless »

Solauren wrote: 2020-08-25 05:23pm So, basically, idiots with mad-up minds, not-based on reality?
It only takes a select few to make life miserable for a person. Just ask Lindsay Ellis, or any other Youtuber that has suffered with persistent harassment.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10361
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

While not strictly related to missing episodes being recovered, I just came across this RadioTimes article suggesting that both Evil of the Daleks and The Abominable Snowmen are being released in fully-animated form (a la Power of the Daleks from 2016) sometime in 2021.

The article cites The Mirror as it's source so I'm not totally sold on that, but I am cautiously quite excited about this.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 11235
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: Seven missing DOCTOR WHO episodes identified, in negotiations to be returned to the UK

Post by mr friendly guy »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2020-08-27 03:54pm While not strictly related to missing episodes being recovered, I just came across this RadioTimes article suggesting that both Evil of the Daleks and The Abominable Snowmen are being released in fully-animated form (a la Power of the Daleks from 2016) sometime in 2021.

The article cites The Mirror as it's source so I'm not totally sold on that, but I am cautiously quite excited about this.
Thanks for letting us know. I haven't heard this particular news, but I will definitely keep my eye out for this next year.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Post Reply