Count Dooku vs Saruman

[Master of Ossus]

Yoda and Gandalf would win. The Emperor is probably slightly stronger than Yoda because Yoda could not kill him. In Episode III, I hope that we see the battle in which Yoda loses, and Palpatine is left to conquer the galaxy. However, Palpatine could not have been that much more powerful than Yoda, because Yoda survived. Against the Nine, Galdalf the GREY was able to hold against all of them and escape. I believe that because Gandalf is clearly more powerful than the leader of the Nine (he also held him out of Minas Tirith, without a fight), and Yoda is only slightly less powerful than Palpatine, the Light Side would triumph.

[Rathark]

Lets not forget that Saruman's seductive voice is very Jedi-like in its influence. It took Gandalf the White himself to resist.

[Smiling Bandit]

1. They are immortal.

Yes, which is why Gandalf and Saruman never died... oh wait, they noth died, didn't they? Granted, one of them came back, but that was hardly solely via his own power.

2. They can kill vast numbers of enemies. Some of which other characters, even very powerful non-magic wielders, would have no effect on. Remember how Gandalf told Boromir, Legolas and even Aragorn that the Baalrog was beyond any of them?

And we see them slaughter armies... when? I also point out that old Nolder killed many Blarogs and more Orcs, despite having little more than fancy weaponry.

3. Gandalf held off the Nine riders by himself. That cannot be easy.

And I believe we never saw him duel them in a fight. COrrect me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Nine use their fear and mental powers on the battlefield, instead of fighting, for the most part.

4. Elrond's father is a star. That cannot be easy to do.

No, Elrond's father was not a Star, exactly. He was a half human/elf and was, like Greek heroes, given the power to sail the stars eternally. I point out that Elroind had a brother who chose to be human rather than Elven, and eventually died.

5. The mere release of Sauron from the elves made an entire continent (really a world) split in two. That is something that no Jedi could do.

No, it did not. Read the Silmarilion. The world looks much like it did 10,000 yaers ago.

6. The leader of the Nine is invincible to weapons wielded by men.

Yeah, yeah, so he got sliced n' diced by a midget and a warrior chick doing the Xena thing before Xena.

7. The Ring is more powerful than anything Exar Kun did.

Who cares? The ring can hardly corrupt the already evil.

8. No Jedi could have created the fireworks that Gandalf does in his spare time.

*SNORT* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

9. Remember that the three elven rings are preserving entire cities and vast tracts of country from decaying. Not even Vader could stop death.

Yes. So?

Lets not forget that Saruman's seductive voice is very Jedi-like in its influence. It took Gandalf the White himself to resist.

And I'm sure a Jedi, skilled in mental manipulation, could do the same resisting.

Dooku would use the ring and probally fall for Sauron's tricks with some time...

Sauron cannot do much against a strongly willed-opponent. And this assumes that "Sauron's tricks" would help him much. Saruman apparently intened to take the Ring himself, and Gandalf knew he'd fall into evil and try to destroy Sauron if he touched it.

Remember, the Ring grants powers according to the power of its bearer.[/quote

I believe it grants powers according to the WILL of its wearer.. the will to dominate, to rule. Frodo could have used its powers if he'd had the will to.

Aside, Gandalf did not intend to sacrifice himself if he could help it. The Balrog's whip did drag him down.

[NecronLord]

Just looking at the film, where saruman is doing the whole mountain thing(yep i know this doesn't happen in the book) How exactly does he get onto the top of the tower, bearing in mind the film makers left out the door?

The real question is, would they believe that the other one was really there?

[Eleas]

"Just looking at the film, where saruman is doing the whole mountain thing(yep i know this doesn't happen in the book) How exactly does he get onto the top of the tower, bearing in mind the film makers left out the door?"

The same way he sent Gandalf to the tower? He must clearly have some way of getting up there (stairs and a hidden door would do fine), and just as clearly he doesn't want anyone (dragons, flying beasts or crebain) able to access a potential opening.

[Master of Ossus]

Well, Smiling Bandit, me thinks you are gravely mistaken. Here is my response to your post.

1. Wizards are immortal in the same way that elves are immortal. They can never even be killed. When they are killed, they go across the sea, but they are still on Middle Earth. Thus, they are immortal. They cannot die of disease or natural causes, they can only even be sent across the sea through combat or accident. I really don't think I should have to justify my statements that wizards are immortal. BTW, when the ring bearers went across the sea, they were not given immortality. Rather, they were allowed to cross over into the realm of the elves and the Valar, but they would eventually die and be forced to go beyond Middle Earth. No elves have to do this, unless they choose to. Elves and Wizards are immortal.

2. You are correct on this point, we have never seen Gandalf slaughter large numbers of enemies (or Saruman, or Radagast, the only other wizards we meet). I withdraw that statement. Concession granted.

3. We do not see Gandalf fight the Nine, except indirectly. When the Hobbits have yet to meet Gandalf, they see a series of flashing lights on some hills outside of Weathertop. That is Gandalf fighting the Nine. He escapes. Also note that he is merely Gandalf the Grey, at the time.

4. Elrond's father IS a star. He took one of the great gems of Middle Earth, and became a star in the sky. You are correct, his brother did choose to be mortal and did die. Elrond made the choice to remain immortal and lead the elves. That is part of why he was so opposed to Arwen choosing to become mortal when she married Aragorn.

5. The release of Sauron did break the world in two. Read the Silmarillion.

6. I don't really see how you are rebutting my point. The leader of the Nine could not be killed by men, he was killed by Eowyn.

7. I also do not see your rebuttal.

8. Gandalf's magic is in many ways more powerful than the abilities Jedi have demonstrated.

9. So, the three elven rings are doing something that is absolutely extraordinary, and completely beyond anything that the Jedi and the Sith can accomplish.

None of the rest are my points, I will leave the people who originally posted them to debate your rebuttals.