BattletechVsOther Sci-fi

[Graeme Dice]

Against Macross: An interesting and sensitive subject actually, since many BTech designs were lifted from Macross, but Playmates sued and all lifted designs were pulled.

Yet another case of money winning a lawsuit that should have been lost.

[Straha]

Which designs were lifted?

[Straha]

The White Star seemed to be quite capable of point bombardment on the surface of Mars...I don't think Mechs would like a small group of White Stars to do some strafing runs...

Yeah, but do you think that Sheriden, Delen, or almost anyone from the command crew (except Ivanava) would comit the horrible ethical crime of killing people without giving them the chance to fight back.
Secondly it wouldn't matter about point bombardment if the mechs are hidden in jungles, glaciers, cities, or other places of guerilla fighting which would force landings.
And finally remember the objective is to capture the planet, which requires more then just orbital bombardment.

They had little problem doing that on mars.

Those weren't white stars, they were fighters(unless i'm mistaken) and they were bombing refugee targets. Big diference

[VF5SS]

Which designs were lifted?

FASA lifted the VF-1A Valkyrie for the Stinger, VF-1S Valkyrie for the Wasp, another VF-1S Valkyrie for the Valkyrie, Zentradi Officer's Battlepod for the Marauder. The standard Zentradi battlepod was adapted into the Osto series. VF-1S with FAST packs was made into the Phoenix Hawk, the LAM versions of the Stinger, Hawk, and Wasp were heavily based on the VF-1's transformation. From the Destroids they took the Spartan for Archer mech, Phalanx became the Crossbow, Tomahawk became Warhammer, Defender became the Rifleman. They also took the MK II Monster for one of the early Battledroids game.

[RayCav of ASVS]

Which designs were lifted?

www.badkarma.net has a list

From the top of my head, they are the Locust, Wasp, Stinger, Valkrie, Pheonix Hawk, Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Crusaider, Archer, Warhammer, Maurader, Griffin, Thunderbolt, and Battle Master, amongst others. As you can see, even though this is a partial list it is still extensive.

[spongyblue]

only reason I call it Robotech is because I am refering to the american version since that is the one I saw the most. When I refer to the Japanese I will call it Macross and all related names. But I aint in Japan and that aint the show I watched, so I'll call it Robotech.
On a slighty different note, I think the destroids needed more screen time. I thought they were cool as fuck and did shit loads of damage.

[VF5SS]

Well, the Zentradi never used anything that was slow enough for the Destroids to hit. Poor guys were stuck playing mobile turret.

[Patrick Ogaard]

hmmm, given that this is SD.net and all, why are we basing the appraisal here on completely subjective measure.

A 120kg projectile moving at 24,933 m/s (22 17-km hexes divided by 15 seconds) has 37 gigajoules of energy behind it. That's the energy yield of a slug from a starfighter-scale gauss cannon (which has a maximum effective range of 374 kilometers in a vacuum and in the absence of the massive electronic warfare that restricts land-warfare targeting systems).

The BTU's drawbacks are mainly limited to the internal mechanics of the universe. Consider:

The BattleTech universe has a single-fire 185mm weapon that can deliver the equivalent of about 50 GJ of energy to its target (ChemJet 185mm AC/20, Demolisher Heavy Tank). The weapon is non-nuclear in character and does not create substantial "splash" damage; the shell weights a little under 200 kilograms, and generates enough waste heat from its firing that early models of the tank that mounted it required the crew to wear freon-cooled "space suits" to survive the weapon's firing.

The BTU also has particle cannons in the 25-37 GJ regime, which once again cause very little splash effect.

BTU has armor that is highly resistant to armor piercing shots; despite the high energy yields, only about 7% of hits will penetrate the armor without first physically blasting it to bits. 'Mechs are highly compartmentalized, and it takes an internal ammunition explosion to breach multiple compartment walls. A 'mech can have one of its sides completely staved in, then submerge in deep water and not lose hull integrety in the other areas of its hull; likewise, even 'mechs with exposed "glass" cockpits can repel a direct weapon hit from all but the heaviest weapons to the pilot's compartment (though enough energy is transfered to rough up the pilot a little).

BTU has gyroscope and engine technology that allow for 100-ton robots to fly through the air as far as 120 meters on a plasma jet with no negative effect to the 'mech and no chance of losing flight control in the absence of serious structural damage. Some 'mechs of the Star League era as heavy as fifty tons were capable of transforming into spaceworthy fighter aircraft without compromising their armor protection.

Knowing all this we run into a couple of known problems.

1) nuclear weapons are extremely effective against BTU units; for whatever reason, the characteristics of the armor of BTU units is very inefficient at repelling nuclear weapons. It is unlikely however that this is solely because of the thermal energy of the weapons, since plasma torches (flamers) are one of the weakest weapons in the game in terms of damage, and since being doused in a napalm-like compound has no effect other than dramatically raising the internal temperature of the machine.

Likewise, in outer space, the theoretical Alamo missile can destroy all known ships in a single hit. However, the yield of the Alamo is no known, and the weapon does not actually exist in the game - due to this, its hard to directly judge the effects of the weapon.

One thing is clear: the defensive technologies in the BattleTech universe can repel kinetic and thermal impacts of tremendous power - despite this, high explosives and nuclear weapons seem to still be effective. Those in the community who are engineers might be able to explain this better than me.

2) In ground combat, the range of weapons drops off dramatically. Some have claimed that this is a literal physical limitation. However, the rules dealing with using 'mechs in outer space explain that the limitation of 'mechs' weapons is due far more to the targeting packages than to the actual weapons. 'Mechs operate in an environment drenched in heavy jamming that renders guided missiles and "smart" targeting systems very unreliable. About a quarter of a ton of cutting-edge sensor technology is required to retain enough control over a guided missile to hit a target at ranges of 270 meters with consistency (the Clan version is more weight-efficient due to their superior level of technology). Cloaking and Stealth technology, along with enhanced ECM carried by some specialized units, can even further increase the level of electronic blockage.

3) In space, BattleTech units are relatively slow compared to other Sci-Fi contenders, due to their lack of acceleration cancelation technology and other "magic tricks."

Anyway, hope this adds to the discussion

Let's take the gauss rifle values and run with them.

A gauss rifle does 15 points of damage in the Battletech and Aerotech boardgames. At 37 gigajoules, that comes out to roughly 2.5 gigajoules per point of damage.

When applied to a relatively small vehicle like a battlemech or an aerospace fighter, one ton of standard Battletech armor can withstand 16 points of damage before failing, or nearly 40 gigajoules.

A conventional 5-ton large laser, at 8 points of damage, delivers 20 gigajoules of damage to its target. A conventional 1-ton medium laser delivers 12.5 gigajoules of damage, and a 0.5-ton small laser delivers 7.5 gigajoules of energy.

A single short range missile delivers 5 gigajoules of damage to the target with, while a long range missile delivers 2.5 gigajoules.

A conventional 0.5-ton machine (20 to 30 mm gatling) gun firing a 5 kilogram load of ammunition delivers 5 gigajoules of energy to the target, trading drastically short range for great striking power.

The ever-popular particle projection cannon (PPC) delivers 25 gigajoules to its target, or 37 if the PPC is an improved Clan model.


Battletech Technical Readout 2750 first introduced warships and their weapons, and provided damage ranges sacaled to mechs and aerospace fighters. Using those stats, here are some Battletech naval weapons:

The smallest naval autocannon is the NAC/10, a 2,000 ton monster using 200 kilograms of ammunition per shot. The damage is 100, which roughly converts to 250 gigajoules. The heaviest naval autocannon is the NAC/40, weighing in at 4,500 tons and using 1.2 tons of ammo per shot, for 400 points or 1 terajoule of damage.

The three weights of naval lasers weigh from 700 to 1,100 tons and do 35 to 55 points of damage, or 87.5 to 137.5 gigajoules.

The three weights of naval PPCs mass from 70 to 150 tons and have yields of 70 to 150 points, or 175 to 375 gigajoules.

None of the normal naval weapons are agile enough to target something as small as a 100-ton fighters, so for use against fighters there are missiles, like the 30-ton Barracuda that delivers 50 gigajoules to the target, or the massive 50-ton Killer Whale that delivers 100 gigajoules to a target, and even that is not ordinarily enough to immediately knock out a well-armored fighters except through a direct hit to the cockpit.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Not using any superpowered technology like that recovered from the lost Star League, or developed by the Clans, the Enforcer is a relatively typical medium mech.

It weighs in at 50 tons, has a cruising speed of 43.2 km/h, 64,8 km/h running speed, and 120-odd meters jump range.

The Enforcer mounts a total of 9 tons of armor, distributed among 11 different hit locations. The head/cockpit can withstand a direct hit of up to 22.5 gigajoules without failing, which is standard for virtually all mechs.

On the right arm the Enforcer mounts a 10-point autocannon, delivering 25 gigajoules of energy per volley. The Enforcer carries sufficient ammunition onboard for 10 volleys.

On the left arm the Enforcer mounts a large laser that delivers 20 gigajoules of energy per blast and will be able to fire as long as the Enforcer's powerplant keeps working.

As close range backup, the Enforcer mounts a small laser firing forward from the left torso, with a yield of 7.5 gigajoules per blast.

[Patrick Ogaard]

In close combat with other mechs and with buildings, an Enforcer could kick, delivering 25 gigajoules worth of armor-bashing energy to another mech's legs or a similarly low target.

Another option is a combination punch, each arm delivering 12.5 gigajoules of energy.

More exotic options include charging another mech or a building, physically bashing the target with the mech's full weight; or the feared and risky "death from above" that involves a jump-capable mech using its jump jets to land a gravity-assisted kick and body block to the target, very possibly crushing the enemy mech's cockpit.

[Graeme Dice]

[A gauss rifle does 15 points of damage in the Battletech and Aerotech boardgames. At 37 gigajoules, that comes out to roughly 2.5 gigajoules per point of damage.

Naval scale damage is _not_ the same as Mech scale damage.

[Patrick Ogaard]

[A gauss rifle does 15 points of damage in the Battletech and Aerotech boardgames. At 37 gigajoules, that comes out to roughly 2.5 gigajoules per point of damage.

Naval scale damage is _not_ the same as Mech scale damage.

If you're talking BattleSpace, you're quite right, as the damage is divided up into fire factors, each fire factor being approximately equivalent to 10 points of Mech or Aerospace fighter scale damage. However, the values given in Battletech Technical Readout 2750 are specifically scaled to mechs and aerospace fighters, apparently because BattleSpace had not yet been published and the warships of the Star League were put in the book as a sort of curiosity.

However, if one takes the BattleSpace fire factors and multiplies them by 10, one arrives again at the BattleTech and AeroTech damage values.

[RayCav of ASVS]

Not using any superpowered technology like that recovered from the lost Star League, or developed by the Clans, the Enforcer is a relatively typical medium mech.

It weighs in at 50 tons, has a cruising speed of 43.2 km/h, 64,8 km/h running speed, and 120-odd meters jump range.

The Enforcer mounts a total of 9 tons of armor, distributed among 11 different hit locations. The head/cockpit can withstand a direct hit of up to 22.5 gigajoules without failing, which is standard for virtually all mechs.

On the right arm the Enforcer mounts a 10-point autocannon, delivering 25 gigajoules of energy per volley. The Enforcer carries sufficient ammunition onboard for 10 volleys.

On the left arm the Enforcer mounts a large laser that delivers 20 gigajoules of energy per blast and will be able to fire as long as the Enforcer's powerplant keeps working.

As close range backup, the Enforcer mounts a small laser firing forward from the left torso, with a yield of 7.5 gigajoules per blast.

Hmmm, the Enforcer is still a Star League mech. And since you haven't specified whether it's Enforcer, Enf-II or ENF-III, you could just as well be implying the Star League era mech. I would choose a Vindicator or Jenner, built during the Secession Wars.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Hmmm, the Enforcer is still a Star League mech. And since you haven't specified whether it's Enforcer, Enf-II or ENF-III, you could just as well be implying the Star League era mech. I would choose a Vindicator or Jenner, built during the Secession Wars.

According to the Battletech Technical Readout 3025, the Enforcer ENF-4R is a Davion design commissioned by House Davion in 2777. It's purely a Succession Wars vehicle, with no extended range large lasers, MASC, CASE, ferro-fibrous armor or other such stuff.

I could have picked an Awesome, of course ...

[RayCav of ASVS]

Hmmm, the Enforcer is still a Star League mech. And since you haven't specified whether it's Enforcer, Enf-II or ENF-III, you could just as well be implying the Star League era mech. I would choose a Vindicator or Jenner, built during the Secession Wars.

According to the Battletech Technical Readout 3025, the Enforcer ENF-4R is a Davion design commissioned by House Davion in 2777. It's purely a Succession Wars vehicle, with no extended range large lasers, MASC, CASE, ferro-fibrous armor or other such stuff.

I could have picked an Awesome, of course ...

I actually was about to suggest the same thing

[Darik Sdair]

Just a quick note: my initial figures were flawed because I thought that a turn was 15 seconds. I later found out tha (silly me!) its actually 10 seconds per turn, which ups the velocity of the gauss to a minimum of 37400 m/s and consequently ups the kinetic energy of a standard gauss to (IIRC) around 85 GJ. See the "BT vs. Skynet" thread further down for the calculations.

[Darik Sdair]

From the BT vs. Skynet thread...

OK, so lets look at the HGN-732 Highlander...

Cruising Speed: 32.4 km/h
Flank Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: apx. 65 km/h
Maximum Jump Range: 90 meters, max one jump per 10 seconds

Weight (fully loaded): 90 metric tons

Weapon Systems;
1 Gauss Rifle - apx. 85 GJ of kinetic energy (120 kg slug, 37400 m/s)
6 Short Range Missile Tubes - HEAT warheads with armor penetration equal to a 11.3 GJ kinetic impact. 30 reloads for each tube.
20 Long Range Missile Tubes - HEAT warheads with armor penetration equal to a 5.6 GJ kinetic impact. 12 reloads for each tube.
2 Medium Lasers - armor penetration equal to a 28.3 GJ kinetic impact each.

Armor;
Foamed alloy with aligned-crystal structure - Center chest plate can repel kinetic impacts of up to 226.6 GJ - maximum structural tolerance is 391 GJ of kinetic energy. Other locations have similar but slightly lower energy tolerance.

Engagement envelope;
In an EW-free or light-EW environment, most weapons can reach to or beyond the horizon with exceptional accuracy. Running at "typical" (read: typical to the BT universe) EW levels, targeting and rangefinding equipment is seriously compromised, reducing effective ranges by almost 570x. Special hardened targeting computers can help with these difficulties, but even those are severly impacted.

There isn't any evidence I know of that Skynet posesses any jamming and EW gear of the sort seen on the BT battlefield, so range is almost a non-issue for the HGN.

Effective Range (Unimpaired/EW-impaired)
Gauss Cannon - 374 km / 660 m
Long Range Missile - 357 km / 630 m
Short Range Missile - 153 km / 270 m
Medium Laser - 153 km / 270 m

As for Skynet...




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TERMINATOR
A phased plasma pulse-laser in
the forty watt range...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(source: T1 Script)

So, if small arms' power draws are listed in the (iso)watt range, I'm sort of doubting that they are going to be delivering the kind of energy needed to breach BattleTech armor. That said, their heaviest weapons may be able to affect BT armor, and BT armor's aligned-crystal structure tends to break down as its subjected to punishment. So, I guess if the HGN stood still and let the Skynet's heaviest tank-bots fire on it for a long, long time they might destroy it.

In actual battle, I think the BattleMech wins hands down unless Skynet goes nuclear.
_________________
Banzai!

[Patrick Ogaard]

Now, how much damage would a plain old Naval Autocannon/40 do using those figures as a lower limit? (Lower limit since the slug of a gauss rifle does not necessarily take the full 10 seconds to reach its maximum effective space combat range.)

If my math is anywhere close to right, it would be close to 2.27 terajoules.

A Galactic Empire capital ship would likely shrug that off without major trouble, but I have this awful vision of first contact between an Essex-class Star League destroyer and a Galaxy-class UFP starship:

Federation Ops Officer: "Captain, we have a relatively small 612,000-ton vessel ahead, coming into visual range. Lifesign readings for 208, apparently human. The vessel has no warp drive, but a large energy storage coil in its aft section, linked to what appears to be a deployable solar sail. The vessel also has no deflectors or other apparent shielding, but does appear to have extremely thick hull plating of undetermined composition. There also appear to be large probe or shuttle deployment systems on the front, 10 in total ..."

Federation Captain: "Perhaps a research vessel?"

Federation Ops Officer: "Sir! Six small craft with plasma thruster propulsion have deployed from the alien vessel! They are single-seat vehicles massing 100 tons each, approximately 15 percent of their mass appears to be armor. They mount multiple laser weapons, estimated firepower 210 gigajoules per small craft. They are also equipped with some form of microtorpedo launch system."

Federation Captain: "Still no response to our hails?"

Star League Captain: "Stand by, Stuka squadron. Stand by, gunnery control. Ops, what can you tell me about our guest? Is she some kind of cobbled together Outer Sphere liner, or what?"

Star League Ops Officer: "Can't tell, sir. They're running some fierce jamming, and their hull seems to be almost completely radar-absorbent. And I can't tell what the hell they've got in the way of weapons, except that thing under the flying saucer thing looks suspiciously like a knock-off of a Maelstrom AR-10 missile launcher. Unknown vessel approaching."

Star League Chief Engineer: "Ops, we're getting weird vibrations in the Kearney-Fuchida coil."

Federation Captain: "Ops, are there any subspace emissions at all?"

Federation Ops Officer: "No, sir."

Federation Captain: "Check for old-fashioned radio-frequency EM emissions."

Federation Ops Officer: "Off the scale, sir! Adjusting hailing frequencies to match."

Federation Captain: "Helm, take us in closer slowly, to 100 kilometers."

Star League Captain: "Sparks, what kind of gibberish is that coming through? No standard transponder code? Definitely a pirate, then ...

... What the hell? No ship can move that fast! Gunners! Fire at will! Fighters! Fire at will!

Federation Ops Officer: "Sir! Massive energy spikes in the small craft! The alien vessel is firing on us!"

The 8 NAC/20 of the Essex-class destroyer open up, pumping nearly 9 terajoules of kinetic energy into the saucer section of the Galaxy-class cruiser. Two Barracuda missiles slam into the engineering section, each delivering over 100 gigajoules of energy to the shields. Six Stuka fighters open up, raking the saucer section and warp nacelles with roughly 1.25 terajoules of laser energy, followed up by 120 long-range missiles, and 24 short-range missiles.

The enormous naval autocannon shells slam full through the shields and tear through the saucer section. The warp nacelles begin to vent plasma under the laser bombardment, while the two Barracuda missiles overload and disable the navigational deflector.

Assuming the Galaxy-class ship survives without a catastrophic warp core breach, likely destroying all vessels involved, the cruiser is towed to the nearest Star League base for interrogation and analysis.

Criticism is welcome, of course.

[Darik Sdair]

Now, how much damage would a plain old Naval Autocannon/40 do using those figures as a lower limit? (Lower limit since the slug of a gauss rifle does not necessarily take the full 10 seconds to reach its maximum effective space combat range.)

If my math is anywhere close to right, it would be close to 2.27 terajoules.

A Galactic Empire capital ship would likely shrug that off without major trouble, but I have this awful vision of first contact between an Essex-class Star League destroyer and a Galaxy-class UFP starship:

Federation Ops Officer: "Captain, we have a relatively small 612,000-ton vessel ahead, coming into visual range. Lifesign readings for 208, apparently human. The vessel has no warp drive, but a large energy storage coil in its aft section, linked to what appears to be a deployable solar sail. The vessel also has no deflectors or other apparent shielding, but does appear to have extremely thick hull plating of undetermined composition. There also appear to be large probe or shuttle deployment systems on the front, 10 in total ..."

Federation Captain: "Perhaps a research vessel?"

Federation Ops Officer: "Sir! Six small craft with plasma thruster propulsion have deployed from the alien vessel! They are single-seat vehicles massing 100 tons each, approximately 15 percent of their mass appears to be armor. They mount multiple laser weapons, estimated firepower 210 gigajoules per small craft. They are also equipped with some form of microtorpedo launch system."

Federation Captain: "Still no response to our hails?"

Star League Captain: "Stand by, Stuka squadron. Stand by, gunnery control. Ops, what can you tell me about our guest? Is she some kind of cobbled together Outer Sphere liner, or what?"

Star League Ops Officer: "Can't tell, sir. They're running some fierce jamming, and their hull seems to be almost completely radar-absorbent. And I can't tell what the hell they've got in the way of weapons, except that thing under the flying saucer thing looks suspiciously like a knock-off of a Maelstrom AR-10 missile launcher. Unknown vessel approaching."

Star League Chief Engineer: "Ops, we're getting weird vibrations in the Kearney-Fuchida coil."

Federation Captain: "Ops, are there any subspace emissions at all?"

Federation Ops Officer: "No, sir."

Federation Captain: "Check for old-fashioned radio-frequency EM emissions."

Federation Ops Officer: "Off the scale, sir! Adjusting hailing frequencies to match."

Federation Captain: "Helm, take us in closer slowly, to 100 kilometers."

Star League Captain: "Sparks, what kind of gibberish is that coming through? No standard transponder code? Definitely a pirate, then ...

... What the hell? No ship can move that fast! Gunners! Fire at will! Fighters! Fire at will!

Federation Ops Officer: "Sir! Massive energy spikes in the small craft! The alien vessel is firing on us!"

The 8 NAC/20 of the Essex-class destroyer open up, pumping nearly 9 terajoules of kinetic energy into the saucer section of the Galaxy-class cruiser. Two Barracuda missiles slam into the engineering section, each delivering over 100 gigajoules of energy to the shields. Six Stuka fighters open up, raking the saucer section and warp nacelles with roughly 1.25 terajoules of laser energy, followed up by 120 long-range missiles, and 24 short-range missiles.

The enormous naval autocannon shells slam full through the shields and tear through the saucer section. The warp nacelles begin to vent plasma under the laser bombardment, while the two Barracuda missiles overload and disable the navigational deflector.

Assuming the Galaxy-class ship survives without a catastrophic warp core breach, likely destroying all vessels involved, the cruiser is towed to the nearest Star League base for interrogation and analysis.

Criticism is welcome, of course.

Its galaxy class? No, than it couldn't possibly survive. One SRM hits the nacelle and the ship'll blow up like a pinto.

OK, seriously though, the scenario above isn't all that crazy. Though I'm sure the rabid trekkies will start thumping their chests about "64 megaton (really, there's no such think as those episodes that give isoton yields!) photon torpedos" and people will have to start figuring out the energy absorbance levels of BT capital ships.

Random note: the damage values may not be the literal energy yields of the weapons, but the effect on the armor relative to the stated yield of kinetic energy. I strongly suspect, in particular, that PPCs have a disporotionate effect on armor for their yield, and I know as a fact that nukes have a vasty disproportionate effect, possibly because of the EMP effect.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Agreed on all counts. The energy levels of the lasers and PPCs are rated only in terms of how their effects compare to a kinetic energy weapon, not the actual theoretical output. I suspect that a large laser would have to produce a lot more than 85 gigajoules of output to achieve what 85 gigajoules of raw kinetic energy will do to an armored target.

Range and speed would be the two superior weapons in the Federation arsenal. Any situation in which a Federation vessel allows itself to be sucked in close to a Star League warship will result in the warship blasting the Federation starship into little sparkly bits. Any situation in which a Star League vessel is caught at long range will result in the Star League vessel having to either jump out of the system or get battered into a floating hulk.

Now, a modified McKenna-class battleship fitted with a warp drive ... grossly implausible, but fun. And Klingon warriors trying to use their Batleths and disruptor pistols against a Phoenix Hawk.

[fgalkin]

I don't know that much about Bthech, but would StarCraft beat it?

[Darik Sdair]

I don't know that much about Bthech, but would StarCraft beat it?

That's a tough one to add up - in land battle I'm pretty confident in BattleTech winning, given their raw firepower and heavy protection. However, the air battle aspect of Starcraft is extremely abstract and is tough to quantify.

[Straha]

Btech Vs. Starcraft Humans

Air: Hard to quantify but in my mind probably starcraft because of cloaking ability.

Space: Starcraft hands down, who can beat the yamamato? Also the science vessel could add shielding which would turn it into a one sided battle.

Ground: Btech, this sould be broken down into clan and inner sphere divisions.

Clan: Just for a second imagine a marine platoon (seven to nine marines) running into an elemental star (five). An elemental star which can take down a small mech, for instence a phoenix hawk, would have gross fire power advantage, size advantage, the self healing suit, and manueverabilty with the jump jets. As anyone could see the marines would be masacred.
The only mech like thing that starcraft has is the goliath, which is rather weak with only machine guns and gta (they could probably be converted to gtg, but would be long long range missles) missles. Although they would have the advantage of artillery (siege tanks) this would not do crud if a mech or an elemental was right on top of their posistion. The only feasible victory would come from fields upon field of spider mines, which could be circumvented by jump jets, and jump packs.

Inner sphere:
A similar victory, but with roughly equal infantry, but starcraft would loose the advantage of mines because the IS uses them too, the IS would also have a much better artillery branch as their artillery isn't made up of transforming tanks, and is real artillery. The mechs would still have an advantage over the goliath but, not by as much as the clans.

Any diasagreementS?

[RayCav of ASVS]

Personally, I find quantifying anything in StarCraft just about as useful as quantifying Red Alert 2. Trust me, I've tried both

[Straha]

You can at least try.