Predator vs Master Chief

[Srelex]

A Predator equipped with all the toys seen in the movies decides to try its luck against MC in a generic jungle. The MC himself has his standard assault rifle, pistol, and four grenades. Who has the better chance on coming out on top?

And if that's not interesting enough or unfair, how about the three uber-preds seen in the latest movie, or a single fully-equipped Pred vs Noble Team? EDIT:Or the Pred trio vs the Nobles?

[adam_grif]

As seen in PREDATORS, a fully charged plasmacaster can completely gib a full sized human. I doubt the chief could stand up to that, but then again regular plasmacaster shots don't do nearly that much damage.

[Chaotic Neutral]

His shields and armor might be able to take at least 1 hit from it. The more important question, can the Chief see the predator? Do they know they're in a fight to the death?

[OsirisLord]

Fight seems a bit wonky. Predator is in his element with all his tech, were as Master Chief only has his most basic equipment. I'd give it to the Predator but this isn't a fair fight.

[Shroom Man 777]

If the Predator gets the drop on him sure. But hasn't Master Chief faced more physically imposing opponents, more technologically advanced opponents, more heavily armed ones, and more invisible ones, than the Predator? Even if the Chief's opponents were technicolor gremlinoids that go SQUAWK SQUAWK! and shit.

Aside from being indivisible, what puts the Predator apart from the other gremlinoids the Haloids had to deal with? The plasma caster rounds don't seem particularly fast. Chief may be able to dodge it or something. I mean, come on, Adrien Brody was able to avoid getting gibbed and sure, he has previous combat experience in killing giant gorillas and playing piano through the Nazi occupation, but still. If a bunch of naked sweaty guys can do it, then an armored, superhuman with super-reflexes and super-craps would probably, maybe, quite possibly, do just as well (if not better), perhaps.

Also lol body armor also protects people from Predator plasma casters.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

The Chief does have some experiance fighting enemies that use a similar (in effect), cloak, so I think the pred would have a tough time of it, assuming the Chief's armor and shields can stand up to a plasma caster shot.

[Sarevok]

As stated above the Chief has plenty of experience slaughtering enemies that cloak. He also has the benifit of a nifty 360 degree motion tracker that makes the Predators life much harder if he tries moving around.

The idea that because a fully charged Plasma Caster MIGHT be able to kill the Chief the Predator has a chance is ridicules. The Chief has faced armies of foes who could one shot him into gibs with ease. Your average Flood could kill the chief with a single round from a guided missile launcher that the Chief cant even dodge due to its accurate guidence. The dumbest fucking Grunt could kill the Chief in 2 seconds by pumping 7 Needler rounds into him. A Hunter or Banshee needs to get lucky only once with a fuel rod gun shot. A Wraith could wipe out a whole squad of Spartans with one single well placed plasma cannon hit. The list goes on. Yet the Master Chief effortless destroys all of them. He is just THAT damn good at fighting. The Master Chiefs weapons and armor are demonstrably inferior the Covenant. It is his incredible war fighting skills that makes him the most dangerous thing alive in Halo. A Predator, even one from first movie has yet to demonstrate that level of badassitude.

[adam_grif]

He is just THAT damn good at fighting.

Character wankery is not admissible evidence. Master Chief can and does get killed, millions of times every day, from the enemies you just mentioned, but then the autoload kicks in. Are you trying to say that there aren't any predators good enough to kill MC? Do we know which predator he is facing down? They obviously have the firepower to down the chief. The chief has the firepower to down the predator. The winner is obviously going to be the one that outfights the other, but "derp the chief is SO GOOD AT EVERYTHING" isn't a fucking quantifiable statement. The predators also routinely face enemies that have the firepower to kill them but has no trouble taking them down until someone with a character forecefield shows up.

The predator stands still in a treetop, the chief walks past, the predator obliterates him in one shot.

OR

The chief spots him and kills him with one burst of assault rifle fire.

Either of these situations, or many others, are perfectly plausible. How much does each person know about the other?

[Sarevok]

I am not argueing about character wankery. The Master Chief does go through the events of the game without ever dying. The Predators plasma caster is not magically more of a Chief killer than an anti tank missile or plasma grenade.

The Predators only hope of winning a golden BB shot. Its like beating a M1 tank with a T-34. The Chief has sensors to detect Predators at short range and experience to guess their position from his vast experience fighting Elites. It would take the Master Chief acting like an idiot and walking into a trap to get killed. Thats completely out of character for him.

[Sarevok]

Also I have been taking one shot kills from Plasma Caster at face value so far. I would like to see calcs providing said level of effectiveness from now.

[adam_grif]

Also I have been taking one shot kills from Plasma Caster at face value so far. I would like to see calcs providing said level of effectiveness from now.

In Predators, a charged plasma caster shot completely destroys a man's entire body. Now, I haven't run the numbers, but blowing an entire body apart and leaving nothing but a trace amount of blood left behind is undoubtedly going to take more energy than the (18?) assault rifle rounds it canonically takes to strip the chief's shields and kill him.

Plasma weapons in-universe are also far, far more effective at stripping shields than regular bullets. Likewise, in-universe plasma weapons don't blow people apart, so it's much, much more powerful than any man portable plasma weapon that he has faced before.

I am not argueing about character wankery. The Master Chief does go through the events of the game without ever dying. The Predators plasma caster is not magically more of a Chief killer than an anti tank missile or plasma grenade.

No shit, but I'm saying that "woah he went on this really tough adventure and came out alive, that means he is fantastic" is a vapid, useless argument because there is nothing we can actually draw from that. The predators are likewise experienced in picking of elite special forces teams with weapons as powerful as what the chief is wielding, and their only known weakness is Californian governors smearing themselves with mud.

Every protagonist from every game and show ends up coming out of outrageous odds, but that isn't useful because it can't be quantified. "Combat skill" can't be boiled down to a number and compared.

The Chief has sensors to detect Predators at short range and experience to guess their position from his vast experience fighting Elites. It would take the Master Chief acting like an idiot and walking into a trap to get killed. Thats completely out of character for him.

He has vast experience fighting invisble aliens that bounce from treetop to treetop does he? Invisible aliens sure. But he has not fought predators before, and predators don't fight identically to elites. Even if they did, are you trying to say that no elite could ever kill him, or further than nobody that fights like an elite could?

The chief can as you say detect him at close range, but only if he's moving. Which brings us back to how much knowledge of each respective character the other has. Because if he knows about that, then he can attempt an ambush. "HE can't fall for traps because he's so amazing" is the character wankery I was talking about before. On what grounds? That it's out of character for him to lose fights? Because it's absolutely not out of character for him to linearly walk through the only path available to him without checking for any traps along the way. He does that throughout every game he has been featured in.

[PeZook]

Saying "MC managed to survive and kill lots of Covenant, therefore he will kill the Predator" is like saying "Ivan the Russian Infantryman went through the entire campaign from Moscow to Berlin without dying, therefore he will kill Fritz the SSman"

In other words, it's completely meaningless, because there's more to fighting than "he survived, therefore he's good". Just like Ivan could get shot in the back by a Volkssturm kid with a hand-me-down Mauser, if MC is about equal, technologically, to the Pred, he can get punked if the situation favors the Pred.

In which case it becomes an unresolvable matchup of "GREEN BERETS VS SPETZNAZ RAH RAH", but it would do good to perform some quantification, yes?

[Shroom Man 777]

Why is it such a shit analogy? I mean, all it does is establishes Master Chief's combat record, and all the challenges he's undertaken and overcome to guage their abilities and attributes other than their technological equipment and how many asteroids a Predator's wristblades can vaporize or shit.

Is it that hard to surmise that: "Genetically engineered superhuman soldier in wicked power armor who's killed XYZ-space gremlins > Ugly motherfucker/s with loin cloths, space spears, invisibility cloak and pew-pew lasers who still get killed by naked guys with rocks" ?

If you take this into account, yes. It will give MC a better odds.

This isn't GREEN BERETS VS SPETZNAZ RAR RAR! This is rugged veteran who's bested gratuitous amounts of equal/superior foes vs. shitheads who get punked and killed by naked muddy guys with sticks/rocks.

[Crazedwraith]

Where is it established that MC's weapons can hurt the Predator significantly? He's carrying what amounts to a modern assault rifle that is hideous inaccurate and short ranged (well from game play) The Predator in pred 1; Gets a minigun fired at him, as well as several assault rifles, a machine and a grenade launcher and is barely hurt.

The one in Pred takes an entire shotguns worth of rounds to chest and stomach and is still combat capable. Id he's carrying UNSC weapons. MC is going to have serious trouble taking the predator down without take a plasma bolt to the face.

[Shroom Man 777]

Um, mang, the guys with the minigun, assault rifles and grenade launchers sorta kinda... missed the Predator?

The Predator got hurt by a guy wielding a sharpened stick in Predators, even decaffinated. The Predator got killed by a katana too, in Predators. The Predator in Predator 2 was royally fucked up after Danny Glover fired at him, to the point where he was no longer combat capable and had to run away (after getting his arm chopped off).

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Yeah, what Shroom said, the Predator isn't bulletproof, he's agile and hard to see, which makes him hard to hit, but if you DO hit him he bleeds and eventually dies, though he can take more punishment than a human could.

[Lord Relvenous]

Also I have been taking one shot kills from Plasma Caster at face value so far. I would like to see calcs providing said level of effectiveness from now.

In Predators, a charged plasma caster shot completely destroys a man's entire body. Now, I haven't run the numbers, but blowing an entire body apart and leaving nothing but a trace amount of blood left behind is undoubtedly going to take more energy than the (18?) assault rifle rounds it canonically takes to strip the chief's shields and kill him.

Where are you getting the 18 rounds from? Gameplay?

[adam_grif]

Also I have been taking one shot kills from Plasma Caster at face value so far. I would like to see calcs providing said level of effectiveness from now.

In Predators, a charged plasma caster shot completely destroys a man's entire body. Now, I haven't run the numbers, but blowing an entire body apart and leaving nothing but a trace amount of blood left behind is undoubtedly going to take more energy than the (18?) assault rifle rounds it canonically takes to strip the chief's shields and kill him.

Where are you getting the 18 rounds from? Gameplay?

Yes, Legendary difficulty is apparently "canonical" in terms of things like relative toughness of dudes according to bungie.

[Stark]

Yes, Legendary difficulty is apparently "canonical" in terms of things like relative toughness of dudes according to bungie.

I believe this depends on the game; I think it was true in Halo but in the newer games Heroic is 'canon' and Legendary is just stupid.

[chitoryu12]

The Chief's reflexes, when suited up in his armor, can pretty much be described as superhuman. In The Fall of Reach he's described as having reaction times almost impossible to chart, and during his first attempt at using the armor (before he was able to control it to his full capabilities) he had a limited ability to dodge machine gun fire. The plasma caster rounds don't move particularly fast compared to rifle rounds, and while he's royally fucked (even with his shields) if it hits him, he's got a good chance of dodging it. His reflexes also make hand-to-hand combat decidedly in his favor. While the Predators are faster and stronger than humans, their armor does nothing to enhance their natural abilities and they can hardly be deemed superhuman, and Dutch is able to use various primitive weapons and traps to make up for his inability to win in one-on-one combat.

The MJOLNIR armor, should the MC get in close, would be a decisive factor in any battle, as the Predator would have great difficulty penetrating the titanium alloy armor with his wrist blades, if he's even able to penetrate something so much stronger than bone. The armor would also greatly enhance his natural strength, which at the age of 14 was enough to let John easily kill ODSTs and break bones with his bare hands. During his first session with the armor, he could punch through concrete. He's demonstrated himself as being able to kill even Brutes and Elites, the best melee fighters of the Covenant, with his bare hands. It can disperse the heat of a plasma weapon, which provides some limited defense against the Predator's plasma pistol. The hydrostatic gel layer provides protection from blunt force impacts, including falling to the ground from 6 kilometers with little to no lasting injury. It took all of the events and injuries of the first Halo game and First Strike to make the gel layer viscous enough to make it nearly useless, as the armorer states at the beginning of Halo 2. Assuming it has a biofoam injector, this also provides a way for the armor to automatically stop bleeding and stabilize/numb wounds. It has a pressure seal that allows the armor to remain airtight underwater (where the Predator's cloaking device would become useless) or in a vacuum. Apparently it also has thermal sensors, which would help him spot the Predator even when cloaked. The energy shields are highly resilient to the physical impacts of hand-to-hand, though plasma weapons and sustained high-power gunfire can strip them in seconds, and they quickly recharge after being drained.

For some exact numbers from the novels, without the armor he can run at speeds in excess of 55 kmh and can run at 105, though he tore his Achilles tendon from the strain. The ceramic augmentations on his bones make them virtually unbreakable and allow him to lift up to 400 kg, double that of the average human. The enhanced muscle density helps. He has amazing night vision. The MJOLNIR armor enhances all of these attributes.

His motion sensor would allow him to detect the Predator's movements in any direction up to 25 meters (Halo 3 custom games allow you to set the motion sensor up to 150 meters, but I'm not sure how canonical this is). He also has experience fighting and defeating many cloaked Elites, not to mention that the Predator's cloaking device shorts out in water or if his gauntlet is damaged.

The Predator's plate armor, on the other hand, can stop bullets but is not indestructible. Any areas not covered by the armor are extremely vulnerable to attack, and even spears and katanas have been shown to kill them, never mind that these humans lacked titanium power armor and super speed/strength. A long assault rifle burst would likely penetrate, as it fires 7.62mm NATO rifle rounds that can pierce Elite armor with a short burst, never mind what would happen if they found a spot the plate armor doesn't cover. His infrared vision is an excellent boon, but heat sources such as fire and explosions can mask the target from being spotted. Considering that the augmentations for SPARTAN-II training includes "superconducting fibrification of neural dendrites", this also increases his intelligence and creativity enough that he would likely come to the same conclusion that Dutch, an unaltered human, came to.

Honestly, it's not much of a competition.

[Stark]

What a load of shit. Relexes 'impossibel to chart'? Bones 'nearly unbreakable'? Hilarious.

[Srelex]

Is this useful? http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=70004

[chitoryu12]

What a load of shit. Relexes 'impossibel to chart'? Bones 'nearly unbreakable'? Hilarious.

All of my "shit" comes from the novels, which describe in detail their exact capabilities. In other words, you didn't come up with an argument other than "Ha ha you dumb".

Is this useful? viewtopic.php?f=4&t=70004

I read that quite a while ago. The plasma bolts move at a slower speed than Halo plasma bolts (as seen in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plt0KwbRWTU at 1:42), which increase the opportunity to dodge them. Even if he's unable to dodge the shrapnel and heat of the explosion, the armor would no doubt greatly lessen the damage. And this is assuming his motion sensor is unable to detect the Predator and he is somehow unable to see him, never mind that the cloaking device is very similar to the Elite cloaking devices which he has reliably fought against multiple times in the novels and games AND his thermal sensors are useless. The Predator would need a large amount of luck to get close enough to negate the disadvantage of the bolts' velocity without being spotted and shot at.

[Stark]

Fuck off, idiot. You made a bunch of unquantifiable, meaningless statements that are obviously contradicted in the sources. It's not my fault that UNSC used a shit test to measure spartan reflexes; this was probably political in nature. Describing bones as 'nearly unbreakable' is similarly ridiculous and meaningless. He has reinforced bones, his bones are strong - these are meaningful. Hyperbole isn't.

The motion sensor has a range of about 10m, can't detect stationary or slow objects, and probably emits signals that a Predator can detect. It's likely to be irrelevant or a problem for MC, and MC can't dodge what he can't even see (particularly since the Predator often opens with fire from behind or above).

[chitoryu12]

The motion sensor has a range of about 10m, can't detect stationary or slow objects, and probably emits signals that a Predator can detect. It's likely to be irrelevant or a problem for MC, and MC can't dodge what he can't even see (particularly since the Predator often opens with fire from behind or above).

Except that the settings in Halo 3 custom games allow for customized motion sensor setups, with 25 meters as the standard. If the Predator detects the signals (with what, exactly?), what is he going to do? They've never shown the ability to jam anything.

And you've completely ignored the fact that he has faced MANY Elites with cloaking devices that provide almost the exact same amount of visibility as the Predator's device, and the SPARTAN-II augmentations include enhancing vision. Not to mention that if the device gets wet, either from rain or being knocked into a body of water, or if his wrist computer is damaged, the cloaking device will promptly short circuit. AND the novels mention thermal sensors on the helmet as well as motion, which will further help you spot an enemy that you can already see with good eyesight.