TSCC Canceled

[Anguirus]

It's my impression that T4 was not all that successful, and that a T5 is coming down the pipeline but it may not be in the same style.

McG wanted to do T5 and T6 his way but I'm not sure they are letting him.

[Thanas]

It's my impression that T4 was not all that successful, and that a T5 is coming down the pipeline but it may not be in the same style.

McG wanted to do T5 and T6 his way but I'm not sure they are letting him.

You are right, T4 was not a succesful movie. The companies marketing it had to spent a total of 160 million just for the rights to distribute it. Then came the budget of 200 million. The movie has only grossed 370 million so far. That is just a 10 million profit - without marketing costs. If we factor in marketing (which is easily in the ballpark of another 50 million) and the various legal expenses, then the movie was a net loss for the studios.

DVD sales may recoup much of that, but as it stands, T4 was not successful at all.

[PREDATOR490]

Regardless, I was aiming more towards T-888s, Jimmy Carter, minor characters (Bidell) like T3 did. Major plot events and elements are obviously much harder to include.

I doubt T-888s would fit with the idiocy that is skynet.

We already have the T-800 and the introduction of the T-888 isnt much of a leap for Skynet. Certainly less of a leap than going to something like the T-1000 or T-X.

They cant make BOTH canon because they DIRECTLY contradict each other and cant be part of the same continuity, right ?

Right. For the purpose of discussion, they are seperate universes. Which Friedman has already said.

If they are 'seperate' universes then there is nothing stopping them from bridging T:SCC into the movie franchise.

If TSCC and the movies cant be part of the same continuity as you seem to think then the offical movie story will > the cancelled series story, right ?

Why? What makes them more canon than T:SCC?

The franchise started with the movies and is continuing with the movies which override what T:SCC claims happened after T2. What validity does T:SCC have if the very franchise it is trying to spin off from overrides it's existance ?

Since the Terminator movies directly contradict T:SCC that renders T:SCC as non-canon because it CANT happen, right ?

Why? A possible explanation would be Cameron overriding T:3/4 by her jump into the future.

Cameron's existance is dependant on T:SCC's depiction of the future which the movies conflict on. At best one could use the movies to either create or aknowledge T:SCC.
The former is a simple case of creating an event that triggers another reality where T:SCC plays out, the latter is by T:SCC events causing the movie events to occur.

Both of which I would find potentially interesting and better than what is being made now.

It sucks but unforunatly the only way T:SCC is ever going to comeback now is if they try to make a movie, which is unlikely given the competition from the movie franchise, or to incorporate it into the movie franchise.

Why does T:SCC have to come back in the first place?

Because it was a good show like Firefly or Farscape and has a trailing story that can be wrapped up rather than let the movie franchise sink into more garbage.

[Faqa]

This thread seems most relevant for the announcement, since it has the largest amount of people who will care:

Lena Headey has been cast as Cersei Lannister for HBO's adaptation of A Song Of Ice And Fire.

Given how effectively she brought the dangerous side of Sarah to life, I can only find this full of WIN.

[Crazedwraith]

How good does she do the batshit insane thing Cersei does? I can't really see her as Cersei myself but still...

Oh and for references: My previous thread with AsoI&F Castings

So anyway, this means Sarah Connor gets to kill Boromir to death.

Still have they said Who's going to get play Jaime? What actors are their that look like a male Lena Headley?

[Faqa]

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau was cast for that role. It's all on GRRM's blog.

Personally, I am more concerned about the fact that we get to see her naked. She's Cersei Lannister. Not to mention female and on HBO. The only character who's MORE guaranteed to show it all is Dany(Tamzin Merchant, BTW).

I'm not concerned about whether Headey can do batshit crazy, because she brought that rather well in TSCC. My question is whether she can do the sweet schemer as effectively.

[neoolong]

I tend to distrust rumors, but has anybody read this? Yeah, it's Lanie Grace, who has come up before, but it seems to indicate that the show might come back, at the least in DTV form. Of course she goes on to say "there is a 99.9% certainty that Josh Friedman and crew will have nothing to do with future TSCC productions, thank god" which sucks, since I think they did a pretty damn good job most of the time.

And it seems like it would tie into T5. I'd say it's way to early to think anything is true, or would come to pass, but somebody seems to think it might.

[Thanas]

Do not trust Lanie Grace on anything.

Here is what really happens at the moment:

Thomas Dekker recently said that the show could return as a direct to DVD movie link. Producer James Middleton is reportedly trying to get something to happen.

However, at the moment there is no real commitment by anyone. Also, do not trust Lanie Grace on this. She takes a tiny bit of a real newsstory and turns it into something completely different/blows it out of proportion. She is a liar and an idiot.

Do not give her more money by visiting her site.

[Thanas]

Also, the fanbase seems to still go very strong. The recent polls were dominated by them (see TWOP for that). DVD sales are also going strong.

I do not think this will happen, but I hope it does.

[Thanas]

Well, we all know that last TV season Fox made the terrible decision to kill T:SCC and renew Dollhouse instead.

Result:
The season 2 premiere of Dollhouse has now attracted less than half of the T:SCC season 2 premiere viewership and also had half a million viewers less than the worst T:SCC episode. In fact, Dollhouse seems to have a total of only half-two thirds the viewership on a regular basis. Even on a Friday night, T:SCC pulled regularly over one million viewers more than the Dollhouse season 2 premiere.

Well, glad to know Fox made the right decision.

More information.


In other news, the DVD sales for T:SCC are still going strong. It is now by far the most bough Sci-fi show currently, and number 3 in Blu-ray sales for all.

[Anguirus]

Well, I did my part there (bought season 2 the other day). I hope Dollhouse gets a chance to succeed...I have never seen it but was planning to, as I've heard very good things.

[Thanas]

^Don't bother with it. For the most part, it is pretty boring. The most interesting character departed last week, so it rather is boring atm. I cannot find anything redeeming about it...and Eliza Dushku's failure to act is rather damning as well.

And it really is a disgusting show.

[Shroom Man 777]

Why the fuck is that Lois Lane whatever woman hating on Friedman? It's his show. That's like saying "thank god George Lucas won't be involved in XYZ project involving Star Wars" when Lucas (working with other people) was the one who made Star Wars all awesome.

But then again, maybe Friedman is a total madman!

[Faqa]

^Don't bother with it. For the most part, it is pretty boring. The most interesting character departed last week, so it rather is boring atm. I cannot find anything redeeming about it...and Eliza Dushku's failure to act is rather damning as well.

And it really is a disgusting show.

Also, it is fat. And smells like poo.

You seriously find nothing redeeming about the show? I can't say it's a stunning piece of television, but it is well-written and the acting not bad. I haven't started on the second season, though.

[Thanas]

Also, it is fat. And smells like poo.

You seriously find nothing redeeming about the show?

I did find a lot of redeeming things about the show. It is just too bad that all three characters I cared for were either dropped or turned into soulless idiots in the season 2 premiere. I won't spoil you, but I can go further into it if you want to.

[eyexist]

I did my part and preordered my copy of season 2 at the first opportunity. I skimmed through the commentaries (which are few and far between unfortunately) before I loaned it to a coworker.

Shirley Manson's jokes, Summer Glau's swooning over Brian Austin Green's undressing scenes, and the awkward silences when Thomas Dekker comments on his female co-stars' body parts make the DVD set worth every penny and then some.

We also find out that if the writer's strike didn't cut season 1 short Cameron's legs would have been blown off in the Jeep explosion, forcing her to crawl back into the house to save the Connors.

It is just too bad that all three characters I cared for were either dropped or turned into soulless idiots in the season 2 premiere. I won't spoil you, but I can go further into it if you want to.

Spoiler

I didn't get a chance to see this week's episode yet. Please tell me one of them is not Amy Acker's character.

[Thanas]

Spoiler

1. Amy Acker has departed in the end of the premier. Maybe she will be recurring later on, but her departing is one of the main reasons why I do not care anymore.

Further things that happened to characters I liked.
Spoiler

1. Dominic the magnificent bastard - sent to the attic - last season
2. Ballard - now working for the dollhouse. Also apparently more than okay with using dolls/echo for his purposes now. Major moment for me.
3. Mellie - pretty much revealed to have been a much nicer person when she was a doll and not her old self.

I liked that last development the least - If the show has such a hard-on for showing that enslaving people and wiping their mind can be a good thing, then I do not expect to be beaten about the head with it the whole time.

This is no firefly and it does not deserve to be saved.

[Peptuck]

This is no firefly and it does not deserve to be saved.

Eh, I'm going to be patient. If the first season was anything to go by, the first few episodes are going to be meh. It wasn't until the fifth episode of the first season that I started to really like the series.

Out of curiosity, Thanas, have you seen "Epitaph One"? It deals two of your issues with the second season thus far.

I really would have been on the fence about Dollhouse from its second season, but "Epitaph One" was an ep that convinced me that I should stick with it. There is definitely a point and a direction to the series.

[Thanas]

No, I have not seen epitaph one as that was only released on DVD. And frankly, which episodes last season did you find outstanding?

[Peptuck]

If you haven't seen "Epitaph One" you are seriously missing out. I can't emphasize it enough. "Epitaph One" more or less fundamentally changes the entire storyline of Dollhouse. The short version:
Spoiler

-The episode is set about ten years in the future.
-The Dollhouse technology is used by Rossum Corporation as a means to create functional immortality.
-Dominic comes back at some point in the future.
-Ballard's motivations are explored, as Echo shows resistance to the Dollhouse tech's mind-wiping. Ballard and Echo are essentially working within the Dollhouse to try and bring down Rossum.
-At some point, the Dollhouse tech gets out. This eventually ends up being weaponized and used as multiple different variants of WMDs. E.g. a signal is sent out over a phone line that turns anyone who picks up the phone into a psychopathic killer. This eventually hits the airwaves and any speaker capable of picking up a radio signal can either completely wipe someone's mind to make them effectively a Doll, turn them into a killer, or overwrite an existing personality with someone else's. Cue massive destruction across the United States, followed by what looks like a world war using the Dollhouse technology. China eventually develops remote, large-scale "mind-wiping" tech and starts using it on sections of the USA affected by the above.

And frankly, which episodes last season did you find outstanding?

Just about everything after "Man on the Street." Particularly the last two episodes of the season. Spoiler

Alan Tyduk

as Alpha is simply awesome. He's easily my favorite character.

[Thanas]

Alpha was okay. Not really great, though, because you immediately know he has to be Alpha. The problem is though, that the first three quarters of the season were pretty much uninteresting and sloooow. Nothing really happened.

And season 2 looks to be more of the same. Ugh. T:SCC had more development in a single episode than the entire first half of Dollhouse.

[charlemagne]

T:SCC had more development in a single episode than the entire first half of Dollhouse.

True. Also, I'm growing entirely sick of "Helo's" smug "Watch me for I am the guy doing the ethically right thing, bitches" look. I swear to god, that guy really only has that one look.

[Peptuck]

Ugh. T:SCC had more development in a single episode than the entire first half of Dollhouse.

I don't disagree on that. However, from what I've read, FOX, being FOX, screwed around with the plot of Dollhouse and demanded Whedon write the series into a more episodic format that replaced development with all that nonsense in the first five episodes. The unaired pilot on the DVD set is, compared with the actual pilot FOX forced down our throats, much, much better.

And it looks like they're doing the same thing again to this season.

[Thanas]

Fox meddled a lot with T:SCC as well. And let us not forget the writer's strike. Every show gets meddled with. In the end, studio meddling is a valid reason, but no excuse for a crappy show. And as I can only judge the show by what is actually shown, I have no reason but to conclude that the show is below subpar Whedon quality.

Plus, I find the premise utterly reprehensible and I absolutely hate the whole "Doll personalities are better than their human ones" shtick.

EDIT: To clarify - I have no problems with shows showing slavery or manipulation/experiments done on girls. Remember Firefly? What was done to River surpassed everything that a doll suffered. But it was presented as something absolutely horrifying.

In Dollhouse, it turns out that having your brain scrubbed makes you a better person. Hooray.

[Zac Naloen]

You are missing a fundamental point about Dollhouse, the dolls aren't people. They are idealised personalities for fantasy fulfillment. And I appear to have missed the part where the dollhouse is actually portrayed in a good way.