Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Probably because it blows. Semi-serious speculation/rumour was that the series was Sunrise's revenge for UC toys not selling in the US.
I remember being able to walk into a Toys R Us and seeing walls lined up with MSiAs from First, 08th MS, 0080, 0083, etc...
I miss those days. ;_;
As far as Wing... eh, I liked it at first, but only because it was my first Gundam series, but after seeing how poorly it compares to the rest, I think the only worthwhile factor were some of the mech designs.
Can someone explain to me why they think SEED sucks? I've been getting mostly mixed reviews about it, and being "better than Wing" doesn't really say much since even as a preteen who liked mindless action shows, I still thought Wing blew and sucked.
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BloodAngel wrote:Can someone explain to me why they think SEED sucks? I've been getting mostly mixed reviews about it, and being "better than Wing" doesn't really say much since even as a preteen who liked mindless action shows, I still thought Wing blew and sucked.
Because like most all other AU Gundam shows, it's little more than a piss poor Mobile Suit clone with shiny mecha designs created to attract the Winger fanboys with little to no original storytelling behind it? Effectively, it's all style, no substance.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
BloodAngel wrote:Can someone explain to me why they think SEED sucks? I've been getting mostly mixed reviews about it, and being "better than Wing" doesn't really say much since even as a preteen who liked mindless action shows, I still thought Wing blew and sucked.
Because like most all other AU Gundam shows, it's little more than a piss poor Mobile Suit clone with shiny mecha designs created to attract the Winger fanboys with little to no original storytelling behind it? Effectively, it's all style, no substance.
There's nothing remotely shiny about the SEED mech designs, they're hideous. And they JUST KEEP COMING. Have you been to the Destiny section at mahq.com? Each side of the conflict has a million different Gundams with stupid names like "Infinite Justice Gundam" and "Legend Gundam". And this is supposed to be one of the "gritty and realistic" Gundam universes...
The original Wing designs at least had that super-robot charm, and the Katoki redesigns are really elegant. With the exception of the ASTRAY Gundams, the SEED stuff all look like fan-wank creations or bad parody.
Back on topic, let me also add my name to the list of 08th MS, 0080, 0083, Char's Counterattack, and Zeta fans. 08th MS and 0080 are great starting points for the series. IIRC they don't require the viewer to have seen the original series to be able to understand what's going on.
Ok, because someone asked, total SEED rant coming up now.
Ok, why SEED sucked. It attempted to be a rewrite of the original (first/0079) gundam, unfortunately, the conviniently miss everything that made the first gundam watchable. The main character is completely wanked out, and yet he is still less impressive than Amuro, because super-L33T Haxxor skillz do not overcome things like natural piloting talent, newtype precog, or the obscene reaction times that Amuro has shown.
The Mecha are all wizzbang shiny with shiny explosions, and yet they completely lack the imagery of raw power that the Zaku establishes in the first episode of Gundam 0079. Even the most powerful MS seem incapable of real damage and never even give you the inkling of an idea that they where competant armoured vehicle.
N-jammers and N-jammer cancellers are so much of plot cop outs when compared to Minovsky physics (which manages to both stay consistent and be repeatly utilized). OMFG now we can launch nukes, lets nuke em? Huh? You don't have the whole blindfiring style of the White Base, you just have random shit.
The ships, they maneuver like fucking planes everywhere, and yet there is no fucking explaination. All the weapons in SEED must travel at obscenely low speeds because a big ass fucking battleship can try dodging after the weapons are fired wtf is that?
Characters: They almost all suck. And those that don't suck they work really hard to make sure they do. Half the support cast is totally fucking worthless, the only interested romance in the making in the series (Dierka and Milliaria) gets pushed on the backburner for something like 80 fucking episodes so the other more important characters can bitch and fucking moan about how much teenage agnst they have. The only characters I truly enjoyed where Waltfield, until they pulled the old ressurection trick, and Muy, because the man knew how to die, until they pulled the old ressurection trick (get the picture).
And the end plot, yah sure the Coordinated notice the Patrick Zala is a genocidal maniac, how the fuck didn't they notice that when he wanted them to build a giant laser gun to shoot earth? It's like the SS helped build Aushwitz, then decided not to use it right when the first batch of jews when in. People don't do it.
And then they made SEED Destiny. I was almost impressed, for the first 7 episodes. The main character comments on how good the veterans are, the vets are really good, and other random decent shit happens. Then it just collapses into a complete shitfest. Super fucking Angst kid becomes god pilot, for no reason ever explained. He acts like a completely irrational prick, and even when people tell him, and fucking punch him for doing so, he just keeps acting the same. His whole character barely fucking develops, his second place romance with Lunamaria is totally boring, and the rest of the characters are all simple rewrites because the writting staff where incompetant.
The MS become completely fucking wizzbang kapow, zap zap shiney, and no explaination is ever forwarded at all (unlike the Hyaku Shiki, Quebley, Quin mantha and others which had explainations for their designs). And it is just a total wank off of who's 5000000000000000000000000th gen suit is better. Of course in something like 15 months they develop 5 generations of normal MS and 5-6 generations of gundam class suits, without any of the aspects that made Zeons development of suits proceed at the rate it did.
And really, one of the high points of the series was that they finally just let the characters have unimplied sex with each other, unlike the previous series, where you still knew that people where shacking up, it was just hidden better (everyone knows Judau was screwing Elle until one of the middle episodes, where they have an implied lovers quarrel and a little break-up in the halls of the Agama, after which Judau persues Roux).
It took everything good about the UC gundam, and tried to make it shinier, prettier and angstier. And it had an incompetant staff that doesn't do anything but make it suck.
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If nothing else, I think Wing should get credit for its delightfully Machiavellian antagonist.
Alright, I understand that Wing is not as good as UC, but is really so terrible? I’m guessing that my impressions of it are mainly rooted in nostalgia because it was the first anime I watched after Dragon Ball Z and it pretty much showed me how much better anime could be. But putting nostalgia aside, I’m curious as to why it is hated so much. I realize that the dialogue can be painfully stilted and part of the plot end up a bit convoluted. But why all the hate?
Post 666: Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:51 am
Post 777: Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:49 pm
Post 999: Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:19 am
UCBooties wrote:If nothing else, I think Wing should get credit for its delightfully Machiavellian antagonist.
Alright, I understand that Wing is not as good as UC, but is really so terrible? I’m guessing that my impressions of it are mainly rooted in nostalgia because it was the first anime I watched after Dragon Ball Z and it pretty much showed me how much better anime could be. But putting nostalgia aside, I’m curious as to why it is hated so much. I realize that the dialogue can be painfully stilted and part of the plot end up a bit convoluted. But why all the hate?
Wing gets at least some credit, because Lucrezia Noin is hawt.
I must be an anomaly, because I loved Gundam Wing, and didn't like many of the others. Albeit, I was ten, but still, the entire Libra storyline and the massive space battle was pretty cool.
Having just recently finished watching the Gundam movie trilogy myself, I'd like to move on to seeing Zeta Gundam. However, im not sure of whether to go for the new trilogy version of Zeta or to go for the full TV version.
For the original Gundam it seems generally accepted that the movie trilogy is superior then the TV series, what about the new movie trilogy for Zeta Gundam?, is it better than watching the TV version?
"The Cosmos is expanding every second everyday, but their minds are slowly shrinking as they close their eyes and pray." - MC Hawking "It's like a kids game. A morbid, blood-soaked Tetris game..." - Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs)
Icehawk wrote:
For the original Gundam it seems generally accepted that the movie trilogy is superior then the TV series, what about the new movie trilogy for Zeta Gundam?, is it better than watching the TV version?
No. They cut out Char's speech. One of the most important events in UC, gone.
I've seen the first two Zeta movies and I honestly believe that they are really horrible. First off, each individual movie is only about 90 minutes while the original movies each clock in at about two and a half hours. They're just so jam packed with too much story without enough detail or characterization. The random mixing of old and new animation is also ridiculously stupid. They didn't even attempt to make the new scenes mesh with TV footage. They play out more like big fanservice videos than anything else. Zeta Gundam is a product of the golden age of Real Robot shows and that kind of styling is a part of the essence of the show.
Dark Hellion wrote:Ok, because someone asked, total SEED rant coming up now.
Thanks for the warning; now I know what to be careful of. I already knew that SEED was a sort of "reimagination" of UC, but damn I didn't know that they fucked up that much.
To be fair, though, for Destiny I heard they switched directors somewhere after the first third or so. That may have been the cause of most problems...
Blood Angel, the Hidden Name of Who You Know.
Zadius: "Done. I get turned on by shit. Nothin' else. "
According to wiki, the director of Gundam SEED let his wife write most of the Destiny and she had a habit of caving to fan demands. This explains why Shinn Asuka is basically replaced by Kira Yamato towards the end of the show.
Everyone says 0079 movies, which I agree with. I also agree with avoiding the Zeta movies. Though the new animation is good, speaking as someone who had seen the entire series recently, it was damn hard to follow. They skip ten slow, but important episodes without so much as a how do you do.
ZZ is good, but the first 9 episodes are incredibly childish. Watchable, but childish.
Char's counterattack is the pwn.
AU wise, G and X are good. Wing and Seed are pfeh. Avoid SD gundam unless you wanna head for kitsch. DO look for the original old SD gundam oavs.
There are also numerous gundam manga.
Though SEED is quite pfeh, Seed Astray is entertaining. Ridiculous at times, but entertaining.
There are the wing manga (far better than the series, but you probably don't want to read it). What I suggest is the side story G-unit, by Tokita, who drew several other of the Gundam manga.
There's Blue Destiny, a OYW story revolving around the expirimental Blue Destiny suit (and its Zeonic counterpart), which involve newtypes as core components. I've only found one volume, but what I found was shaping up well.
Ecole du Ciel- 0085, revolves around Asuna Elmrit, a student at Ecole du Ciel, a canadian MS instruction academy. Story revolves around the newtype development rush and what both governments do in that goal.
Gundam: Lost War chronicles- another OYW side story, about a Zeon commander and the leader of the 03rd MS team. The focus of the story is about each commander trying to keep themself and their men alive. Only two rather short volumes so far, but looking up.
Man, I hope the G-X comic gets brought over. I liked X, and I like Tokita who did the comic, and I'm sure I'd really like the combination of the two.
Battlehymn Republic wrote:
Still, there are some good fanfics out there worth checking out.
Duo/ Heero is my favorite.
Duo's too good for that emo punk.
On a side note, if you're looking for quick but fun battles check out the SEED:Astray and Gundam Evolve shorts. Great eye candy, especially Evolve episodes 3, 4, and 5.
5 is an alternate take on some of the events in Char's Counterattack, and I actually prefer it to the original telling.
So, I'm watching SEED now. Other than a few laughable/odd parts, I didn't find it to be that bad as most of you said. Sure, it's no Cowboy Bebop, but it's entertaining. And this isn't the first sci-fi show to do physics-defying stuff like the fast movement of the ships/mechs. Then again, I'm up to 16, so I'll see what else there is to come.
Blood Angel, the Hidden Name of Who You Know.
Zadius: "Done. I get turned on by shit. Nothin' else. "
BloodAngel wrote:So, I'm watching SEED now. Other than a few laughable/odd parts, I didn't find it to be that bad as most of you said. Sure, it's no Cowboy Bebop, but it's entertaining. And this isn't the first sci-fi show to do physics-defying stuff like the fast movement of the ships/mechs. Then again, I'm up to 16, so I'll see what else there is to come.
Erm, what part of it were we comaring to other anime again? Go re-read the complaints against Seed. The main reasons it largely sucks is due to the fact that it's largely just a rehash/clone of the original mobile suit series mixed in with shiny mecha and little to no originality.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
"
