Questions Regarding the Imperium of Man...

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

If the Eldar were so bad how come the Eldar tolerated humanity rising as a premier superpower during the Dark Age of Technology? And if the the Age of Strife was caused by the Eldar, then that strongly hints that humanity and the Elder possibly co-existed in relative peace during the respective heights of their powers.

They were far too busy fucking each other, themselves, and cattle and doing more drugs than a burnt-out rockstar.

[NecronLord]

If the Eldar were so bad how come the Eldar tolerated humanity rising as a premier superpower during the Dark Age of Technology? And if the the Age of Strife was caused by the Eldar, then that strongly hints that humanity and the Elder possibly co-existed in relative peace during the respective heights of their powers.

Yes. We know that almost all eldar homeworlds appear to have been within the Eye. I doubt they'd care much about humanity spreading across what was in old fluff, the previous domain of the Slaan, before they turned inwards (preparing for the C'tan?) and retired to the outer rim. and before that. Well, fucking with organised, numerous, Slaan... isn't wise. Even for the Eldar. Those big toads are lethal.

The craftworlds were originally built as massive trade ships which went into mon-keigh space to procure their goods for the Eldar. I believe B5's Mollari has a quote about decadance that's relevant to that, probably trading with humans among others. Horus Rising also shows humans who'd prospered by contact with the Eldar, presumably before the Fall.

The Eldar only became more ruthless and machiavellian when they were essentially pushed to the brink of extinction and forced into direct conflict against the equally (if not more so) ruthless, brutal and pitiless Imperium of Man.

I wouldn't go that far. They're bastards, and have been since the Old Ones got to them. They were bred to be ruthless, brutal and pitiless by a god-race who wanted to use them as soldiers, remember. Just like the Krorks, but with a different spin.

The Eldar may be snobbish and carry out atrocities for their survival like the humans in the Imperium are essentially doing, they did not go out of their way to exterminate humanity during the Dark Age of Technology or when humanity were still on Earth, when the Eldar were much more advanced than humans (even during the DAoT when humanity could do amazing feats such as moving solar systems!).

I've never actually seens a quote talking about that. What's more, there's little evidence that the Eldar really were that much more advanced than Dark Age humans, with the exception of the webway (which is an immense advantage, to be sure, especially as, before the Fall, they could expand the thing)

[SirNitram]

The Eldar have always been ruthless, but not dumb. There was little point in fucking with an ascendent Humanity that didn't seem to be a major threat to their way of life. Only the Fall caused the current situation, and even now, they will speak with, trade with, and if the situation calls for it, ally with, Humans.

It's just that if your great-grandchild will become an Imperial Guard Heroic Officer and kill a dozen Guardians one day, you might be suddenly killed, to prevent that.

I'm right now trying to find out if an Exodite codex I skimmed was official or fanmade. It certainly paints the Exodites as far less objectionable than the Craftworlders.

[NecronLord]

I'm right now trying to find out if an Exodite codex I skimmed was official or fanmade. It certainly paints the Exodites as far less objectionable than the Craftworlders.

I'm pretty sure there has never been such a thing published. However, it's worth noting that the 2e craftworld eldar weren't as objectionable as 1e (all pirate bastards, basically) and 3e ones.

[white_rabbit]

The Eldar have always been ruthless, but not dumb. There was little point in fucking with an ascendent Humanity that didn't seem to be a major threat to their way of life. Only the Fall caused the current situation, and even now, they will speak with, trade with, and if the situation calls for it, ally with, Humans.

It's just that if your great-grandchild will become an Imperial Guard Heroic Officer and kill a dozen Guardians one day, you might be suddenly killed, to prevent that.

I'm right now trying to find out if an Exodite codex I skimmed was official or fanmade. It certainly paints the Exodites as far less objectionable than the Craftworlders.

Exodites were certainly less objectionable, and I think the Imperium tended to try and displace them when it could.

Things usually came to a head when they mentioned it to the Craftworlders, who are deeply objectionable.

Having just read Warrior Coven, Eldrad Ulthran is a fucking "cunt"

[NecronLord]

Having just read Warrior Coven, Eldrad Ulthran is a fucking "cunt"

You sure it's not Goto being a really fucking terrible cunt of a writer again? What's in it?

[Falkenhayn]

How do you think Farseers handle the Krork being equally ancient, legitmate, and potentially far more lethal children of the Slaan?

[NecronLord]

How do you think Farseers handle the Krork being equally ancient, legitmate, and potentially far more lethal children of the Slaan?

<Eldar Child> What about the orks?
<Eldar Teacher> What?
<Eldar Child> I'd heard the orks are really old.
<Eldar Teacher> Right. Hold a book out in each hand, and face the wall. Come back when you're ready to join in the condescension circle.

[Lost Soal]

How do you think Farseers handle the Krork being equally ancient, legitmate, and potentially far more lethal children of the Slaan?

<Eldar Child> What about the orks?
<Eldar Teacher> What?
<Eldar Child> I'd heard the orks are really old.
<Eldar Teacher> Right. Hold a book out in each hand, and face the wall. Come back when you're ready to join in the condescension circle.

The Orks are the pinnicle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no strress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

[NecronLord]

The Orks are the pinnicle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no strress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

Note that his views are so popular among the Eldar that he aquired the name 'The Perverse'

[Lost Soal]

Having a perverse sense of humour or perception does not necessarily make one unpopular.

[Lost Soal]

Crap. should have had an at the end.

[Big Orange]

Originally Posted by NecronLord:
Yes. We know that almost all eldar homeworlds appear to have been within the Eye. I doubt they'd care much about humanity spreading across what was in old fluff, the previous domain of the Slaan, before they turned inwards (preparing for the C'tan?) and retired to the outer rim. and before that. Well, fucking with organised, numerous, Slaan... isn't wise. Even for the Eldar. Those big toads are lethal.

So the Slaan were a very dangerous and ancient race that used to occupy most of the galaxy back in the day? Then they possibly predicted that the Eldar were going to fall into Chaos, the hungry Tyranids were slithering closer to the Milky Way and they knew the C'Tan were going to wake up in the next hundred thousand years, which is why the Slaan vanished to the edge of the galaxy - is that the best theory, NecronLord?

One poster suggested that the Slaan were actually the Old Ones themselves, a ancient race that created the Eldar and Krorks (Orks). That could be a possibility, but I heard in the fluff that the Old Ones were killed off by the C'Tan and that the Slaan were a seperate species that (that co-existed with the Eldar and had a galaxy wide empire) came a long, long time after the Old Ones apparently went extinct - perhaps massively degenerated decendents or lowly servent race that used salvaged Old Ones relics and technology?

[SylasGaunt]

You sure it's not Goto being a really fucking terrible cunt of a writer again? What's in it?

Eldrad was a twat before that what with the fluff text for the alien Krashrak the Stalker in Inquisitor (long story short thousands of years ago he foresaw fragments from hive fleet Kraken stumbling into a few Maiden Worlds. So he did a little nudging which culminated into an ork fleet smashing into the nids thousands of years later which in turn diverted the 'nids toward the Viskeon homeworld, resulting in the extermination of the entire race sans a few individuals who were off planet).

[Base Delta Zero]

I believe it was said the Old Ones were defeated by the C'tan, not necessarily annihilated.

[Currald]

The Old Ones and the Slann were one and the same in the older fluff. Nowadays, its a bit ambiguous. The Slann may be the first race created by the Old Ones, or may have evolved from the Old Ones, or maybe the Old Ones were the first spawning of the Slann, or something.

[Falkenhayn]

The Orks are the pinnicle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no strress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

Isn't this because the Krork had some interaction with the Nightbringer or the Old Ones which made them the only individually aware race in the Galaxy that is sans fear of death?

And where did you find that little gem?

[Lost Soal]

The Orks are the pinnicle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no strress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

Isn't this because the Krork had some interaction with the Nightbringer or the Old Ones which made them the only individually aware race in the Galaxy that is sans fear of death?

And where did you find that little gem?

Near the back of Codex Orks, 3rd ED, bottom of the page headed Ork Tribes and Hierarchy

[white_rabbit]

Having just read Warrior Coven, Eldrad Ulthran is a fucking "cunt"

You sure it's not Goto being a really fucking terrible cunt of a writer again? What's in it?

spoilers here. Don't read if you don't want spoilers
He creates a pact with the Ordo Xenos stationed in a certain sector, when theres a requirement, they will both aid each other etc. Basically Lelith Hesperax has made a pact with a daemon prince, to summon her into existence, and requires strong souls. Rather than combat her directly, and let her fight for strong eldar souls, Eldrad via two Seers that he directly/indirectly manipulates has made provisions to bring Deathwatchers in to fight. From Leliths perspective, they will then be sacrificed to add to her infinity circuit/soul pool which she will use to summon the Daemon.

Three Seers/Warlocks, A neo-exarch/almost exarch Shining spear, multiple eldar civilians and the deathwatchers are thrown to the wolves, and by the time the daemon is summoned, Ulthwe will be gone.

What actually happens is, the Deathwatchers break free, the Warlocks/seers go out in a blaze of psychic fireworks, inspired by what they see as a chance to die well and in service to their race (they aren't particularly stellar examples). Lelith just about manages to win her duel with the Exarch, but not very well, Dark eldar shit gets ruined, and the Deathwatchers escape. one of the librarians carrying 3 seers and an exarch as soulstones, for future bargaining, and a beacon planted in the Infinity circuit of Ulthwe.

[Big Orange]

There are three ancient races that fought the C'Tan and their Necrontyr
/Necron minions...

The Old Ones: Most likely the first space faring race to emerge in the Milky Way, originally mastered the mysteries of the Warp and colonised the glaxy. Near immortal beings that fathered two ancient races - the Eldar and the Krorks. The Slann (another ancient race) were assumed to be the actual Old Ones themselves, but are most likely another race that was once in the service of the Old Ones.

The Eldar: The cream of the crop among the alien races seeded by the Old Ones, the Eldar were made to be unbeatable warriors, just like the Krorks (but far more refined). Ruthless and brutal the Eldar are a stern product of a very ruthless and brutal galaxy (but also the Old Ones meddling). Yet despite this they are a very cultivated species that have higher reasoning powers than the crude Krorks.

The Krorks: A very numerours (and very crude) race that has a very rapid means of reproduction, the Krorks (or Orks) were intended to be the "canon fodder" in the Old Ones' interminible wars against the implacible C'Tan - spawning in their countless quadrillions and spreading their spawn seed like mushroom spores across millions of worlds the galaxy over, the Krorks were created to endure forver and be forever a threat to everything else. In many ways their crude technology and physiology reflected their infinitely more advance masters, the Old Ones; the Krorks (Orks) could manipulate the laws of physics, their technology and the power of the Warp itself through sheer (pig headed) mental will alone, despite not actually having any real intelligence.