Why does no one kill the God Emperor? (40K)

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-04-19 04:41am

Most people have covered it already.

Nobody kills the God Emperor because they don't have a fucking clue what might happen when he dies.

There are several options:

1) He becomes the new Warp God of light and destroys/negates the Chaos Gods

2) He becomes a new dark Warp God and unifies and intensifies Chaos.

3) He dies and that is all - though with the Astronomicon gone, Warp Travel for humanity is now impossible, or at least so dangerous as to be not worth it at all.

The first two are the most popular with groups such as the Inquisition, Chaos theologians, Eldar and the Hydra Conspiracy, many of whom actively trying to kill the GEoM to achieve the result and happily wagering the universe on the coin toss of which way he falls.

As for why he hasn't been killed yet, there is a fucking awesome picture of the last chamber that people must pass through before they can see the GEoM. Its a towering chamber that is literally FILLED with Adeptus Custodes and with a liberal smattering of Titans of many variants around it. That's his PERSONAL bodyguard in ONE ROOM of the palace.

There was another theory I seem to recall: he dies and Humanity is destroyed instantaneously (IIRC this theory was bandied around by some Inquisitors in a fluff piece way back when - it had to do with the GEoM being a spiritual anchor for humanity in the universe). Unsurprisingly I don't even rate that one.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2006-04-19 05:38am

IIRC in the Inquisitor Draco books didn't Draco manage to sneak all the way into the Emperor's chamber only because the Emperor willed it, and then the Emperor froze time to talk to him psychicly or something?

You can tell those books were written in 2nd ed times can't you.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-04-19 08:20am

Stark wrote:it's going to become increasingly stupid that the C'Tan plan never actually happens. We'll all be here in ten years, saying 'LOLZ NecronLord, your Necropansies STILL haven't done shit all yet'

Given how unlikely it is that they'll ever advance the plot into the 42nd mellennium, it's not an issue. The C'tan only really started working again a few hundred years 'ago.'

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-19 08:29am

Oh true, it's not like other bad RPGs where they're locked into some kind of realtime-gametime thing. There isn't even really a 'now' in 40k stuff, is there? Like, 41,002 - MAY

Still, it'll never happen. So all they've done is removed the mystery and replaced it with an Evil Plan that will come to nothing.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2006-04-19 08:35am

Stark wrote:GR, that's why I'm not a fan of - as far as I can tell - GW filling in the blanks over the last decade. It *used* to be - from my limited exposure - possible to conjecture, and be uncertain, etc. Now, everything is laid out, and it's going to become increasingly stupid that the C'Tan plan never actually happens.

There is still plenty of room for conjecture. As has been pointed out, we don't even know what happens if the GEoM is killed. Though he is healing, slowly, is is also established that it is becoming increasingly hard to keep him alive. Not everything is laid out at all.

Moreover, the idea that he really is "Jesus" was not all that hard to figure out even in the Rogue Trader days (though I do object to too much of his backstory becoming known; it sort of ruins his mystique).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-19 08:38am

Well that's it - when I just had the basic 2E, even stuff that was mentioned in the fluff was hardly conclusive from a historiography perspective. But now... it's not just one source, it's the whole fucking game. I *liked* the mystique, and it allowed the Imperium to be *wrong*.

Is 'Rogue Trader' a book, or a piece of fluff? I'm not sure if I should know what it is.

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2006-04-19 08:56am

Stark wrote:Well that's it - when I just had the basic 2E, even stuff that was mentioned in the fluff was hardly conclusive from a historiography perspective. But now... it's not just one source, it's the whole fucking game. I *liked* the mystique, and it allowed the Imperium to be *wrong*.

Is 'Rogue Trader' a book, or a piece of fluff? I'm not sure if I should know what it is.

Rogue Trader was the original book form of 40K. It was a warband set-up where every character has his stats and equipment randomly rolled, and everyone has access to virtually the same equipment, i.e. Tyranids armed with Bolt Guns and such.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2006-04-19 08:56am

Rogue Trader was the original 40K game that all the others came from, AFAIK.

Its got some fluff books, i think, like sourcebooks and such that explain the 40k Universe but i think now most of that is out the window cause of retcons.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-04-19 09:01am

Stark wrote:Oh true, it's not like other bad RPGs where they're locked into some kind of realtime-gametime thing. There isn't even really a 'now' in 40k stuff, is there? Like, 41,002 - MAY

Actually, there is. More or less. It's all taking place sometime in 999.M41. Cause, after all, it *is* Warhammer 40,000... and it just wouldn't sound the same if it was Warhammer 41,000, would it?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2006-04-19 09:08am

Actually its entirely possible, and many backdoors have been left open, for them to continue well into the 42nd Millennia.

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2006-04-19 01:50pm

2000AD wrote:IIRC in the Inquisitor Draco books didn't Draco manage to sneak all the way into the Emperor's chamber only because the Emperor willed it, and then the Emperor froze time to talk to him psychicly or something?

You can tell those books were written in 2nd ed times can't you.

1st ed times, actually. Towards the end, especially the sequels to Inquisitor/Draco, but still 1st ed.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2006-04-19 05:17pm

andrewgpaul wrote:
2000AD wrote:IIRC in the Inquisitor Draco books didn't Draco manage to sneak all the way into the Emperor's chamber only because the Emperor willed it, and then the Emperor froze time to talk to him psychicly or something?

You can tell those books were written in 2nd ed times can't you.
1st ed times, actually. Towards the end, especially the sequels to Inquisitor/Draco, but still 1st ed.

The sequels were actually in the era of 2nd ed.

technomage · Post by **technomage** » 2006-04-19 08:23pm

Who is Draco?

Eisenhorn or Ravenor?

Damn, I'm going to have to read those books sooner or later.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-04-19 08:50pm

technomage wrote:Who is Draco?

Eisenhorn or Ravenor?

Damn, I'm going to have to read those books sooner or later.

Draco=character from Inquisition War trilogy.

Gregor Eisenhorn=originated in the Inquisition RPG, became the subject of a trilogy by Abnett.

Ravenor=former acolyte of Eisenhorn's, now a full-fledged Inquisitor of his own. The subject of two books and presumably an upcoming third, also by Abnett.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2006-04-19 08:51pm

technomage wrote:Who is Draco?

Eisenhorn or Ravenor?

Damn, I'm going to have to read those books sooner or later.

I havent read any of them, but I was into the hobby when they started appearing so I know when they're from even if I dont know much about what they are.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2006-04-20 04:34am

You guys forgot to mention the cult that wants Him to die so he'll be properly reincarnated. You know, as something OTHER than a big piece of rotten meat. Damned if I can remember what they're called.

40K actually USED to be "real-time," from 1987-1999 (987M41-999M41), but, yeah, they stopped before it became "Warhammer 41,000."

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-04-20 04:35am

The Hydra Conspiracy is the one you are referring to I believe...

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-04-20 04:47am

weemadando wrote:The Hydra Conspiracy is the one you are referring to I believe...

No, they want to place a giant warp monster to turn humanity into a collective.
He means the Illuminati who are also the ones who tried to gather the Sensei and are composed of many formerly possesed by Chaos [who are now free].

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-04-20 05:40am

Ah, as opposed to the order headed by the Harlequin man who wished to kill him to give birth to the starchild...

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-04-20 06:17am

weemadando wrote:Ah, as opposed to the order headed by the Harlequin man who wished to kill him to give birth to the starchild...

Those are the Illuminati [the Harlequin human man was possesed by Chaos once].
The plan is to gather the Illuminati then when the Emperor finally fails/dies to sacrifice the Illuminati vastly increasing the chances of the Emperor becoming a true good Warp god.
Problem is, the Inquisition have killed most of those meddling do gooders [the Sensei].

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2006-04-20 06:28am

DEATH wrote:
weemadando wrote:Ah, as opposed to the order headed by the Harlequin man who wished to kill him to give birth to the starchild...
Those are the Illuminati [the Harlequin human man was possesed by Chaos once].
The plan is to gather the Illuminati then when the Emperor finally fails/dies to sacrifice the Illuminati vastly increasing the chances of the Emperor becoming a true good Warp god.
Problem is, the Inquisition have killed most of those meddling do gooders [the Sensei].

You got that slightly backwards. The plan is to gather the Sensei at the foot of the Golden Thrown, and sacrafice the Sensei.

The majority of the fluff, I believe, all still says that should the Emperor fall, the minds of every psyker will become an open gateway and Chaos will flood into galaxy consuming everything. From what I can tell, all the methods by which The Emperor assends require outside intervention, and aren't even known for sure.

Point being, Emperor just dies, everyone fucked, Some outside organisation succeeds in their plan, everyone MAY be saved. Or not, its all conjecture.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2006-04-20 11:49am

Stark wrote:Well that's it - when I just had the basic 2E, even stuff that was mentioned in the fluff was hardly conclusive from a historiography perspective. But now... it's not just one source, it's the whole fucking game. I *liked* the mystique, and it allowed the Imperium to be *wrong*.

Is 'Rogue Trader' a book, or a piece of fluff? I'm not sure if I should know what it is.

Rogue Trader = 1st edition, a randomized warband game as others have pointed out. Those were the days that a lucky mutant really could eat an army for breakfast.

Later on, there were actual army books to go with Rogue Trader: including the Lost and the Damned which was one of the books for Chaos (the other was Realm of Chaos, iirc). In 2nd Ed, they were forced to trim 75% of the stuff and have a single Chaos book only half as long as either of its predecessors (in 3rd edition, they halved the length of the Codex books again, which led me to remark that eventually we would be playing a kind of snakes and ladders - thankfully that was not to be and the 4th edition books showed an increase in size to almost, but not quite, 2nd edition standards).

Anyway: as has been pointed out in Stravo's "why doesn't anyone kill the Emperor" thread, quite a lot of the background fluff for the Emperor was in fact from the Lost and the Damned, hence it is 1st edition. What I'm worried about is an exessive amout of more stuff appearing in Black Library publications.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-20 01:58pm

Oh true, it's not like other bad RPGs where they're locked into some kind of realtime-gametime thing. There isn't even really a 'now' in 40k stuff, is there? Like, 41,002 - MAY Smile

I'm pretty sure 'now' is no actual date. I have the recent source books for the 13th Black Crusade and the Sabbat Worlds Crusade, the conclusions of both of which are set 'now'. In the 13BC book, 'now' is 999 M41, whilst in the SWC book 'now' is 775 M41. I think its best to say events are occurring in the latter half of M41.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-04-20 02:32pm

The last couple of 'world campaigns' (including this years one) have occured in 998 and 999.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-04-20 02:36pm

NecronLord wrote:The last couple of 'world campaigns' (including this years one) have occured in 998 and 999.

Have the world campaigns really ever affected the meta game world? I mean I can imagine a scenario where you may have lopsided Chaos victories that may put the IoM in a very precarious position that makes storytelling a little difficult for fluff pieces.

Or I guess the make sure the world games couldn't affect THAT much of the gaming universe.