Real measurement units in sience fiction.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Do you like the use of real units in a sience fiction movie or book?

I mean something like.
"our new missiles have a yield of 300 MT and an can accelerate with 100g"

I myself like it when they use real units.
However it starts too suck when an author uses numbers again and again.
e.g.
"We have hit them with 12 missiles with 250 MT warheads sir!
Fire another volley now with 300 MT warheads""
"Incoming fire sir, missile with 200 MT warheads"

Once or twice in a book is enough imho.

[NecronLord]

It's nice, but only if they get it right.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I mostly like the actual descriptions of battles. Some in Amageddon Inheritance, for example, and allmost every Honorverse book were very good. Numbers are better, IMO, for tech bibles. Also, using descriptions is somewhat easier. Saying a ship puts out X number of gigatons a second or whatever is harder to explain than showing it turning a planet into an asteroid belt in like three seconds. But OTOH, sometimes it can add some realism to the story, just not too many or else it gets silly.

[Luzifer's right hand]

I mostly like the actual descriptions of battles. Some in Amageddon Inheritance, for example, and allmost every Honorverse book were very good. Numbers are better, IMO, for tech bibles. Also, using descriptions is somewhat easier. Saying a ship puts out X number of gigatons a second or whatever is harder to explain than showing it turning a planet into an asteroid belt in like three seconds. But OTOH, sometimes it can add some realism to the story, just not too many or else it gets silly.

errm Weber is one of the authors who uses real units.
We know e.g. the yield of missiles from Dahakverse, the accelartion of HH ships, the range of the weapons....

And distances and other things are often mentioned when he descripes fights.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I mostly like the actual descriptions of battles. Some in Amageddon Inheritance, for example, and allmost every Honorverse book were very good. Numbers are better, IMO, for tech bibles. Also, using descriptions is somewhat easier. Saying a ship puts out X number of gigatons a second or whatever is harder to explain than showing it turning a planet into an asteroid belt in like three seconds. But OTOH, sometimes it can add some realism to the story, just not too many or else it gets silly.

errm Weber is one of the authors who uses real units.
We know e.g. the yield of missiles from Dahakverse, the accelartion of HH ships, the range of the weapons....

And distances and other things are often mentioned when he descripes fights.

Thats what i mean, he doesnt go overboard on it. Yeilds and acceleration and such, but he doenst just throw stuff in to do so. Some writers do, i mean, like this book i was reading (not really scifi but...) Air Battle Force where it explains for about half a page the way a grenade destroyed a tank. "You know, just say what the grenade does, show it destroying the tank", i was thinking.

[The Nomad]

It's okay if they calculate the stuff and check what they write so as to avoid gross mistakes, but they don't need to mention it. Unless they somehow manage to make it create the right kind of atmosphere.

[Lancer]

Do you like the use of real units in a sience fiction movie or book?

I mean something like.
"our new missiles have a yield of 300 MT and an can accelerate with 100g"

I myself like it when they use real units.
However it starts too suck when an author uses numbers again and again.
e.g.
"We have hit them with 12 missiles with 250 MT warheads sir!
Fire another volley now with 300 MT warheads""
"Incoming fire sir, missile with 200 MT warheads"

Once or twice in a book is enough imho.

it's nice to have it as background chatter or somebody bragging about their spiffy new warship though.

[NecronLord]

errm Weber is one of the authors who uses real units.

He has an unfortunate tendancy to verge on abuse of them though.

[18-Till-I-Die]

errm Weber is one of the authors who uses real units.

He has an unfortunate tendancy to verge on abuse of them though.

Not really, some military tech writers just loose control. As i mentioned. He, IMO, mostly uses them to flesh out battle sequences.

[NecronLord]

Not really, some military tech writers just loose control. As i mentioned. He, IMO, mostly uses them to flesh out battle sequences.

"This 1000 meter battlecruiser has a mass of 13 grams" isn't abuse? (Yes, that's exxageration)

I seem to recall someone calcing HH ships to be less dense than air.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

It's good as long as it's restricted to in-universe references, such as in dialogue that directly answers a character's question or is part of an analysis or report. Units rarely ever actually belongs in descriptive prose because it makes everything dry and technical.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Not really, some military tech writers just loose control. As i mentioned. He, IMO, mostly uses them to flesh out battle sequences.

"This 1000 meter battlecruiser has a mass of 13 grams" isn't abuse? (Yes, that's exxageration)

I seem to recall someone calcing HH ships to be less dense than air.

They are less dense than styrofoam afaik.

[constantine]

I like it when they give you numbers but make you work out the equations. However, it irks me when they leave out one number of the equation.

[Gil Hamilton]

No I don't actually like units used in descriptions. What I like is for the author to have a yield or measurement in mind and then accurately and creatively describe the effects of it. But if it's a character saying it for a good reason, then I'm fine with it, though it can be a bit much if the tech jargon is too thick.

[Mikk]

Luckyly for me I have yet to meet an author fail at using numbers properly so I'm allways delighted to see numbers. IMO the opposite of number usage abuse can be quite horrible too...

But I think if an author goes around feeding people with random numbers deserves to be called whatever the readers like.

I dunno... this got too uncoherent for my tastes... to sum it up: I like numbers in the right places

[Wicked Pilot]

Do you like the use of real units in a sience fiction movie or book?

Books are OK, but with sci-fi shows and movies I'd rather they stay away. Since the special effects usually come after the filming, it would be extremely difficult for the fx artist to actually match what you're seeing with what was said. That's assuming of course that they even care. I find it best when they just avoid setting up their universe for contradictions and controversy. I'm sure that those who've seen ItB may agree with me.

[Wicked Pilot]

Plus, since most writers don't know much about weapon yeilds, it's best they leave them out.

[Mikk]

I'm sure that those who've seen ItB may agree with me.

What's that ItB?

[Wicked Pilot]

I'm sure that those who've seen ItB may agree with me.

What's that ItB?

The B5 movie In the Beginning, where among other things the pride ship of the Mimbari fleet is taken down by a 2MT warhead. I don't think JMS purposefully wanted what was one of the most powerful races in his universe to be that weak, so I'm guessing he just sucks at science.

[SirNitram]

Not really, some military tech writers just loose control. As i mentioned. He, IMO, mostly uses them to flesh out battle sequences.

"This 1000 meter battlecruiser has a mass of 13 grams" isn't abuse? (Yes, that's exxageration)

I seem to recall someone calcing HH ships to be less dense than air.

I believe you mean the time a Borg Cube was calculated to be about as dense as hydrogen.

[Dark Hellion]

Actually nitram, I think he is referring to Webers inability to comprehend Volume and Density in the least.

Many Honorverse ships have densities between styrofoam and air. Also, at the battle between the Planetoids and Alcu'ultani (pardon the spelling, its been years since i read em) the planetoids have something like a million to one volume advantage over the acu'ultani. Somewhat akin to sending the U.S.S. Missouri to take down 400 midgets armed with RPGs.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Actually nitram, I think he is referring to Webers inability to comprehend Volume and Density in the least.

Many Honorverse ships have densities between styrofoam and air. Also, at the battle between the Planetoids and Alcu'ultani (pardon the spelling, its been years since i read em) the planetoids have something like a million to one volume advantage over the acu'ultani. Somewhat akin to sending the U.S.S. Missouri to take down 400 midgets armed with RPGs.

That just shows that the Alcu'ultani have in superior designs, more boom for the buck.

[Black Admiral]

Also, at the battle between the Planetoids and Alcu'ultani (pardon the spelling, its been years since i read em) the planetoids have something like a million to one volume advantage over the acu'ultani. Somewhat akin to sending the U.S.S. Missouri to take down 400 midgets armed with RPGs.

You do realise that assuming volume = firepower is a bad idea, right?

[NecronLord]

I believe you mean the time a Borg Cube was calculated to be about as dense as hydrogen.

Nah, borg cubes are another silly example, but at least they have a ludicrous "Mass lightening" system to explain it away. Last I heard, Weber's mass figures were flat out laughable.

HH calcs forthcoming.

[Dark Hellion]

You do realise that assuming volume = firepower is a bad idea, right?

I was under the impression that there was some tech parity between the 4th empirium and the Acu'ultani.
I would give a 5 to 1, a 10 to one, or even a 100 to 1 advantage as being acceptable. But over 1,000,000 (i think the high ends were in the billions) to 1 is laughably absurd unless the Acu'ultani are far, far more powerful than a the 4th empire.