Pillar of Autumn

[constantine]

Odd. I thought the book was sticking with the new Halo2 guns and I recall nothing on the new handguns.

Either way, thats more stupidity that a pistol is better then a rifle.

You do know that we have nothing suggesting the new pistols are better?

In fact, the only time I recall them being used, their performance is inferior to the battle rifle, and in the assault on the UH, the Spartans are using battle rifles (except Linda, who's using her S2 as normal).

Also, page 292 calls them submachine guns.

Why use the pistols at all then? I guess I am still jaded by how Halo portrayed the pistol and how the idiot who wrote The Flood just sucked it right up and used the same crap in his writing.

I can't argue with you there. Dietz wasn't nearly as good an author as Nylund.

[constantine]

Also, page 292 calls them submachine guns.

These could have been found on the Gettysburg.

[Black Admiral]

These could have been found on the Gettysburg.

Yeah, but I kinda doubt that since most of the Gettysburg was fried by the energy projector beam that punched into her centre line.

[constantine]

These could have been found on the Gettysburg.

Yeah, but I kinda doubt that since most of the Gettysburg was fried by the energy projector beam that punched into her centre line.

But didn't Locklear find stores of supplies - there is mention of Lotus mines, crates of ammo and explosives, etc. None of which I believe they took with them from the underground ONI facility.

Oh well, I'm probably nitpicking anyways.

[Black Admiral]

But didn't Locklear find stores of supplies - there is mention of Lotus mines, crates of ammo and explosives, etc. None of which I believe they took with them from the underground ONI facility.

Oh well, I'm probably nitpicking anyways.

Ah, but those weren't being tested not long before the battle of Reach, like the battle rifles, SMGs and MJOLNIR Mark V parts (pages 124 and 134 for that).

[constantine]

But didn't Locklear find stores of supplies - there is mention of Lotus mines, crates of ammo and explosives, etc. None of which I believe they took with them from the underground ONI facility.

Oh well, I'm probably nitpicking anyways.

Ah, but those weren't being tested not long before the battle of Reach, like the battle rifles, SMGs and MJOLNIR Mark V parts (pages 124 and 134 for that).

*light bulb comes on*

I see now.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Its very obvious that they made the ship in Halo larger merely for gameplay reasons. I also rank The Flood as the lowest tier book because the author makes repeated mistakes and idiot statements. At one point he says the maxium number of people a Pelican can hold is 12 and they can overload it to 15. Yet in the same book this author puts 30 Elites on a Pelican. The author also puts the pistol as more accurate and powerful then the assault rifle.

Not to mention that the guy can't characterize for shit and decides that a 'basic' AI should be an expert on history and able to debate logically. Christ, Wellsley was such a pain in the ass, he was worse than C-3P0. Then that female Lieutenant decides to betray her entire race for what had to be the dumbest reasons ever, and the way she did it was so fucking stupid I instantly lost all respect for Covenant ships for making it so eay.

How did she betray her race, pray? And was she Human or Coveant? Sorry if this is off topic.

[Black Admiral]

How did she betray her race, pray? And was she Human or Coveant? Sorry if this is off topic.

Human, and Kuja's referring to Lt. McKay blowing up the TaR.

[Kuja]

How did she betray her race, pray? And was she Human or Coveant? Sorry if this is off topic.

Human LT. She betrayed her entire race by breaking a crucial link between the engine room and the bridge of the TAR. Why did she do it? She convinced herself that the Flood were too dangerous to let off Halo. Never mind that the marines were massacreing them all over the ship. Never mind that they could have taken all the time they wanted to cleanse the ship once they were away from Halo. Never mind that they could quarantine the ship itself once they were back on Earth. Never mind any of that. She chose to destroy the ship instead in the worst-inspired act of treason I've ever seen in literature.

You want to know what I think? I think that Bill Dietz was so busy masturbating over his copy of Halo and blowing his load all over the poor Covenant, he didn't realize that he was writing himself into a corner by having the marines take over the TAR. Then he realized it at the last second and gouged a hole out, making himself look like a complete ass in the process.

[Lancer]

max number of seats a Pelican has for troops is 12. They can fit in 15 if needed. As for the thirty Elites, I seem to recall Wellsey detecting heat signatures on the outside of the Pelican, so not all the Elites were crammed inside.

The seat count comes from the game. In TF they fuck things up royaly. It was already established in TFOR that Pelican's are space worthy (which the game portrayed Pelican is NOT) and could carry 70+ children. They also have a single Pelican holding 27 Spartans heading for a mission on Reach. Yet in TF he says 15 but has 30 at one point.

15 seats, but room for more. At one point, a single Pelican carrys 12 Spartans, 6 Marines & 20 civillians off Cote D'Azure.

As for the pistol being more powerful & accurate than the AR, it's a 12.7 mm high-ex, semi-AP round against a 7.62 mm AP round. The 12.7's gonna have more stopping power, and the inclusion of a 2x optical scope into the pistol hints that it should be a bit more accurate than a fully automatic weapon.

Look at the size of the barrel. Look at the size of the clip. This is not a .50 cal magnum. This is a standard .50cal auto round at best. It will not have the same stopping power of a 7.62mm round because the 7.62mm rounds have FAR more power in them. As for range. That is absolute bullshit. Given the size of the pistols barrel it will NOT be accurate any further out then 50 feet. The AR should have massively longer range as well as both stopping power and penetration.

book sources overrides game sources. Pistol's described as such in narration, so barring any higher sources of information contradicting it, that's what it is. And although the AR probably does have better range & penetration, it's fired at full auto, which tends to reduce accuracy a bit. And the 7.62mm rounds are AP, which will penetrate pretty cleanly compared to an AP+high-ex round.

[Alyeska]

15 seats, but room for more. At one point, a single Pelican carrys 12 Spartans, 6 Marines & 20 civillians off Cote D'Azure.

And in First Strike a single Pelican carries 27 Spartans onboard.

book sources overrides game sources. Pistol's described as such in narration, so barring any higher sources of information contradicting it, that's what it is. And although the AR probably does have better range & penetration, it's fired at full auto, which tends to reduce accuracy a bit. And the 7.62mm rounds are AP, which will penetrate pretty cleanly compared to an AP+high-ex round.

The MA5B will still be more accurate when fired in bursts or single auto as compared to the pistol. This means the games interpretation of the rifle compared to the pistol is flawed. Also something to take note. The pistol is described as barely being powerful enough to penetrate Grunt armor and we know that a relatively few shots can take down an Elite. The Assault Rifle will do far better in taking down enemies because of the sheer load. Part of the nice thing with a 7.62mm round is the wake of the bullet passing through is sufficently powerful it can knock people to the ground even if it hasn't killed them. This will happen with an AP round as well. If a handful of .50cal pistol rounds can take down an Elite, it will take fewer 7.62mm rifle rounds.

[Lancer]

15 seats, but room for more. At one point, a single Pelican carrys 12 Spartans, 6 Marines & 20 civillians off Cote D'Azure.

And in First Strike a single Pelican carries 27 Spartans onboard.

the 15 people figure's probably seating capacity then.

[Alyeska]

15 seats, but room for more. At one point, a single Pelican carrys 12 Spartans, 6 Marines & 20 civillians off Cote D'Azure.

And in First Strike a single Pelican carries 27 Spartans onboard.

the 15 people figure's probably seating capacity then.

Dietz made a point of saying that having 15 people onboard was actualy somewhat dangerous.

[Lancer]

And in First Strike a single Pelican carries 27 Spartans onboard.

the 15 people figure's probably seating capacity then.

Dietz made a point of saying that having 15 people onboard was actualy somewhat dangerous.

hmmn. reading TFoR again gave me a 12 seat figure. I'm guessing though that there's room for a lot more people (like in the cockpit cabin), but they wouldn't be secured so when the Pelican pulls a high-G manouver, they go flying. Can't be cause of the weight, Pelicans can securely & easily hoist 60+ ton MBT's.

[Alyeska]

I never recall the 12 seat figure from TFOR, only TF. TFOR had plenty of people riding in the Pelican. FS had 27 Spartans actualy maintaining some semblance of control in an out of control spinning Pelican.

[Black Admiral]

And in First Strike a single Pelican carries 27 Spartans onboard.

Just to point out, that was after having removed everthing from the troop bay.

[Ma Deuce]

Just to point out, that was after having removed everthing from the troop bay.

And of course there's also the fact that suited Spartans can far more easily get away with not using restraints than mere mortals given their sheer durability (hell, if they can survive a fall from 20k feet and still be in fighting shape...), and their uber reflexes.

[Black Admiral]

And of course there's also the fact that suited Spartans can far more easily get away with not using restraints than mere mortals given their sheer durability (hell, if they can survive a fall from 20k feet and still be in fighting shape...),

That did depend entirely on where they landed, since the ones that landed 'soft', ie only hitting a tree and the ground on the way down survived more or less intact, where as the ones that landed harder were injured severely or even killed.

and their uber reflexes.

[Ma Deuce]

That did depend entirely on where they landed, since the ones that landed 'soft', ie only hitting a tree and the ground on the way down survived more or less intact, where as the ones that landed harder were injured severely or even killed.

Yeah, but real life people who have fallen from similar heights have always had to take rather long hospital stays. In every case (there are only a handful) of a fall from such heights, the person had the extrordinary luck to land on a particularly good cushion (like falling through fir tree branches, then landing in a bank of snow)

[Darwin]

Part of the nice thing with a 7.62mm round is the wake of the bullet passing through is sufficently powerful it can knock people to the ground even if it hasn't killed them. This will happen with an AP round as well.

Th'hell you say?

please re-take physics 101.

[Alyeska]

Part of the nice thing with a 7.62mm round is the wake of the bullet passing through is sufficently powerful it can knock people to the ground even if it hasn't killed them. This will happen with an AP round as well.

Th'hell you say?

please re-take physics 101.

This is what I have been told was the preferred reason why soldiers wanted the M14 over the M16. The 7.62mm cartridge could put a man on his ass dead or alive while the 5.56mm could not do so near as effectively.

[Darwin]

This is what I have been told was the preferred reason why soldiers wanted the M14 over the M16. The 7.62mm cartridge could put a man on his ass dead or alive while the 5.56mm could not do so near as effectively.

that much is true. 7.62x51 nato(30-06) is a powerful round that does much more tissue damage and shock than the little 5.56, just don't think it will put someone down through transfer of momentum or some silly wake. It can easily cause enough trauma to make someone sit their ass down though.

Anyway the MA5B in Halo uses full bore 7.62x51 FMJ AP, and not a short, low velocity round like the AK's 7.62x39. Needless to say, the Chief must be pretty badass to keep the gun on target through a full 60 round magazine, and no pistol caliber known today, including the magnums can even touch it in stopping power.

[Alyeska]

This is what I have been told was the preferred reason why soldiers wanted the M14 over the M16. The 7.62mm cartridge could put a man on his ass dead or alive while the 5.56mm could not do so near as effectively.

that much is true. 7.62x51 nato(30-06) is a powerful round that does much more tissue damage and shock than the little 5.56, just don't think it will put someone down through transfer of momentum or some silly wake. It can easily cause enough trauma to make someone sit their ass down though.

Anyway the MA5B in Halo uses full bore 7.62x51 FMJ AP, and not a short, low velocity round like the AK's 7.62x39. Needless to say, the Chief must be pretty badass to keep the gun on target through a full 60 round magazine, and no pistol caliber known today, including the magnums can even touch it in stopping power.

Ok, so I got the reason why the gun was powerful wrong, but I was correct in saying that your standard .30cal should be massively more powerful then any magnum pistol.

[YT300000]

that much is true. 7.62x51 nato(30-06)

Actually, the 7.62x51 is the .308 Winchester, not the .30-06 Springfield.

[Lancer]

This is what I have been told was the preferred reason why soldiers wanted the M14 over the M16. The 7.62mm cartridge could put a man on his ass dead or alive while the 5.56mm could not do so near as effectively.

that much is true. 7.62x51 nato(30-06) is a powerful round that does much more tissue damage and shock than the little 5.56, just don't think it will put someone down through transfer of momentum or some silly wake. It can easily cause enough trauma to make someone sit their ass down though.

Anyway the MA5B in Halo uses full bore 7.62x51 FMJ AP, and not a short, low velocity round like the AK's 7.62x39. Needless to say, the Chief must be pretty badass to keep the gun on target through a full 60 round magazine, and no pistol caliber known today, including the magnums can even touch it in stopping power.

Ok, so I got the reason why the gun was powerful wrong, but I was correct in saying that your standard .30cal should be massively more powerful then any magnum pistol.

err, remember that the mangum load's high-ex, not a standard slug