Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

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Crazedwraith
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Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Crazedwraith »

Because i've just seen it and because i hate trailer threads being review threads here we go.

I liked it despite myself. Very fun movie. The end is weird. It sorta cuts Pete off from the mcu. I guess it keeps Sony's options open from the second Holland trilogy.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Gandalf »

I thought it was an awesome film.

I liked the start when it looked like the film was going to acknowledge the ridiculousness of Stark passing on his global death machine to a teenager. Too bad they didn't follow it through. The memory spell protects his legacy pretty solidly too.

Annoyingly, it does repeat Wandavision's weird casual attitude towards mass brainwashing.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Crazedwraith »

Op was my initial thoughts sitting in the theatre. This my full thoughts. Still not very well written, I don't know how to write a coherent review.

So Spider-Man: No Way Home was a very enjoyable movie. I was sceptical of the concept but they pulled it off well enough, it was enjoyable and watchable and kept moving at good clip it didn’t feel like a 2 and half hour movie. (in the same way Black Widow didn’t. We got to what had to be the final fight way and it felt well too early.)

All that said I still think it’s a very stupid concept and very stupid set up. Doctor Strange does a spell of that magnitude on a whim and he doesn’t explain it fully before hand so Pete can screw up by talking to him while he’s doing it?

That wasn’t informed consent, man. And that’s before getting into the murky morals of mass memory mortification.

That lawyer could have been anyone, it’s only Matt for fanservice. It’d have much preferred them to go for a Spider-man/Daredevil movie but whatever. (I mean I’d expected Pepper and the massive Stark Legal team to handle it.) They basically handwave the immediate legal problems set up aside and just get on with the social impact and multiverse plot.

The new Statue Of Liberty (referenced in hawkeye. You should be watching) with the Captain America shield is hilarious. I wonder how Sam feels about it.

But the meat of it: the mutliverse villain invasion plot. MCU Pete hitting his lowest point. Then the other spideys appearing to help and how that was managed with Ned was great.

They hit all of the multiverse jokes and references you could expect. Plus the ‘something of a scientist myself’ meme.

I was surprised how well having Maguire and Garfield back worked especially the former, I didn’t consciously know how nostalgic I was towards the Maguire/Raimi films. To be honest the only problem was I wish their interactions could be even more and have more fight scene banter and eerie coordinated teamwork and beat downs.

What we got was good though an I’m so glad they gave Garfield the successful falling save of MJ, a really nice ASM2 redemption moment for him.

The end is like a slightly less horrendous one more day, but how the heck is Peter going to survive now that’s everyone’s forgotten him. Was all his documentation wiped out as well? How’s that working?

It feels like they’ve pulled a soft reboot so they could do a second trilogy or a new spidey without the connection to the MCU so they can break up with Marvel Studios or threaten to which is a total load.

The stinger was a funny follow on/anti-climax from the Venom: Let there be Carnage one but by the film’s logic. Eddie doesn’t know Spider-man = Peter Parker, so why was he summoned?

The other stinger was just a Mutliverse Of Madness trailer, which was cool enough but unremarkable. Though I always like seeing Wanda so it’ll be nice to catch up with her.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Gandalf »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2021-12-19 04:09pmAll that said I still think it’s a very stupid concept and very stupid set up. Doctor Strange does a spell of that magnitude on a whim and he doesn’t explain it fully before hand so Pete can screw up by talking to him while he’s doing it?

That wasn’t informed consent, man. And that’s before getting into the murky morals of mass memory mortification.
Yeah, it's weird that the film clearly knows what's going on, as Strange berates Parker over asking for mass brainwashing without a good reason, but didn't seem to have a problem with the act itself.

There's so much to unpack there.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Crazedwraith »

Gandalf wrote: 2021-12-19 05:46pm
Crazedwraith wrote: 2021-12-19 04:09pmAll that said I still think it’s a very stupid concept and very stupid set up. Doctor Strange does a spell of that magnitude on a whim and he doesn’t explain it fully before hand so Pete can screw up by talking to him while he’s doing it?

That wasn’t informed consent, man. And that’s before getting into the murky morals of mass memory mortification.
Yeah, it's weird that the film clearly knows what's going on, as Strange berates Parker over asking for mass brainwashing without a good reason, but didn't seem to have a problem with the act itself.

There's so much to unpack there.
Yeah and coupling with your comments on WandaVision, WandaVision, NWH and Strange 2 are supposed to be a trilogy so I guess Multiverse of Madness is like karma/redemption for Stephen/Wanda the whole Mass Mind Control thing.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira »

Just got back, and it's rather interesting in terms of adaptation.

On one hand, it's a clear "Sinister Six" thing for its focal villains to go through.

On another hand, it adapts "Spider-Men" a decent but otherwise forgettable story.

And on top of that, it adapts goddamn "One More Day".

And not only justifies it but manages to tell a good story with that plot seed.

It helps that they had Doctor Strange in Mephisto's role, but the basic idea is the same.

And it's still shocking to me that they even thought to tap probably the most hated Spider-Man story for this film.

They did it before with Civil War, but still. That's a flex.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by GuppyShark »

Gandalf wrote: 2021-12-19 05:46pm
Crazedwraith wrote: 2021-12-19 04:09pmAll that said I still think it’s a very stupid concept and very stupid set up. Doctor Strange does a spell of that magnitude on a whim and he doesn’t explain it fully before hand so Pete can screw up by talking to him while he’s doing it?

That wasn’t informed consent, man. And that’s before getting into the murky morals of mass memory mortification.
Yeah, it's weird that the film clearly knows what's going on, as Strange berates Parker over asking for mass brainwashing without a good reason, but didn't seem to have a problem with the act itself.

There's so much to unpack there.
Didn't he imply he does it all the time - even to Wong? Yikes.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Solauren »

Gandalf wrote: 2021-12-19 02:32pm Annoyingly, it does repeat Wandavision's weird casual attitude towards mass brainwashing.
Considering the alternatives were -
#1 (Forgetting Peter Park = Spiderman) Innocent people would be harassed (or worse) in the court of public opinion. (Handing Mysterio a victory)

#2 (Forgetting Peter Parker all together) Was to stop an event that was at minimum a multiversal incursion (at minimum) of Supervillians, to (at worse) the entire multiverse ripping apart.

And when Dr. Strange found out the entire purpose of #1 was to try to get 2 kids into school, he aborted all together.....
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Solauren »

The irony of the movie is that if Peter and Dr. Strange had stopped and talked and thought before casting the initial 'Memory Wipe' spell, they could have prevented alot of problems.

Dr. Strange: "Okay, we'll cast a spell to wipe the knowledge of SPiderman is really Peter Parker from the world, with exceptions, but once I start, no changes. Who are the exceptions?"

Peter: "Myself, Yourself, MJ, Ned, and everyone that was at the memorial for Tony Stark"

Them NOT doing that shows that both still have alot of growing to do.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Gandalf »

Solauren wrote: 2021-12-22 12:02pm
Gandalf wrote: 2021-12-19 02:32pm Annoyingly, it does repeat Wandavision's weird casual attitude towards mass brainwashing.
Considering the alternatives were -
#1 (Forgetting Peter Park = Spiderman) Innocent people would be harassed (or worse) in the court of public opinion. (Handing Mysterio a victory)
If that's a threshold for mass brainwashing, then Doctor Strange could probably start using that power a lot more. Maybe be could make police forget their prejudices or something, as opposed to when he and Wong get fucked up at a party or whatever that was.

Also, the upside of the Mysterio victory is that it seemed authorities were finally taking the Stark Death Apparatus seriously as a concern.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Crazedwraith »

Whatever happened to the Stark Death Apparatus? Peter still has the EDITH glasses but never uses them. I don't remember the system being taken down in Far From Home.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Gandalf »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2021-12-22 02:36pm Whatever happened to the Stark Death Apparatus? Peter still has the EDITH glasses but never uses them. I don't remember the system being taken down in Far From Home.
Assuming the spell at the end gets rid of physical evidence as well, maybe a different version of EDITH is with Stark's family?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
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Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Solauren »

More then likely the Edith glasses were siezed by Damage Control when they raided the Parkers. The only way I can see avoiding that would be if Peter handed them over to Happy to hold onto.

As for using magic to change global behavior patterns (i.e non-prejudical police), that raises a host of questions about the nature of prejudice as well as psychology. It's one thing for people to forget a fact, it's another to alter their mind to the point their personality and behavior changes.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Gandalf »

Solauren wrote: 2021-12-23 07:31am More then likely the Edith glasses were siezed by Damage Control when they raided the Parkers. The only way I can see avoiding that would be if Peter handed them over to Happy to hold onto.
Presumably there's a way to alter physical reality, or any physical evidence (like a cop's handwritten or printed notes) pointing to Parker being Spider Man will cause the issue to come up again.
As for using magic to change global behavior patterns (i.e non-prejudical police), that raises a host of questions about the nature of prejudice as well as psychology. It's one thing for people to forget a fact, it's another to alter their mind to the point their personality and behavior changes.
Given how much they seem to be able to do in this and Wandavision, mass deletion of prejudices seems doable. But if you don't like that, another idea would be to make the US forget about 11/9, because the US would lose the trauma and subsequent bloodlust that still affects people.
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That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Solauren »

Oh I have no doubt mass mind whamies are possible in MCU. We've seen it. It's just the morality of doing it that comes into question.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Thing is as depicted in Homecoming, Damage Control was a joint venture set up between Stark Industries and the US Government and was in charge of cleaning up the wreckage from the Chitauri attack. Here, they have a bunch of armed agents that without hesitation:
  1. Train their guns on Happy Hogan, who as CEO of Stark Industries is basically their boss.
  2. Tried to kill a member of the Avengers.
I loved how they brought in the entire rogues gallery from all the earlier Spider-Man films played by their original actors (and Daredevil) as well as Maguire and Garfield, except Venom who was referenced but because of his solo films only got a cameo in the stinger. And of course, being played by the same actor precluded another version of J. Jonah Jameson popping up! :lol:

It isn't the first time the MCU made use of ideas that in the comic books sucked- Hail Hydra, anyone? :mrgreen:

Having replaced Otto Octavius' inhibitor chip it was inevitable that he'd show up at a pivotal moment, what was unexpected was how the Stark nanotech was able to neutralise him by hijacking the tentacles.

Anyone else notice the Christmas tree and ice rink he visited right at the end was just like the one featured in the climax of Hawkeye?

They took a big risk killing off Aunt May like that, though.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by Crazedwraith »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2022-01-11 12:08pm Anyone else notice the Christmas tree and ice rink he visited right at the end was just like the one featured in the climax of Hawkeye?
I've seen a few funny posts about Peter just flatout ignoring the Hawkeye climax. lol.

He also swings past 'Rogers: The Musical' ads.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by The_Saint »

EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2022-01-11 12:08pm...
And of course, being played by the same actor precluded another version of J. Jonah Jameson popping up! :lol:
...
I figured this is very much a
The One version of Loki variants where there are more variants of J Jonah but they're all J K Simmons.
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

The_Saint wrote: 2022-01-11 10:13pm
EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2022-01-11 12:08pm...
And of course, being played by the same actor precluded another version of J. Jonah Jameson popping up! :lol:
...
I figured this is very much a
The One version of Loki variants where there are more variants of J Jonah but they're all J K Simmons.
I've seen that film, I remember one of the other numbered universes was referred to as "The universe where..."

Mind you, none of the other JJJ versions knew Peter Parker was Spider-Man so there would have been no need to bring them in. Although it means we don't get to see a repeat of this little gem:

:lol:
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Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home release thread (spoilers)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

It's here:
It's no use debating a moron; they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. Intelligent argument is wasted on the stupid.

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