Bit of Lit: the Dresden Files

[Ahriman238]

I've been reading the Dresden Files books, about a private eye/wizard in a semi-noir urban fantasy mashup (yeah, there's like a dozen copycat series out there), lately and I'm starting to think they're getting tired of it in OT. Well, I was asked (twice!) to make a thread so those who have already read it can relive the magic through my eyes. Fair enough.

I do have two requests, though only one will apply to you. First, I'm trying to read and enjoy the series, which is extremely difficult with spoilers, so please don't reference things before I get to them. Second, to anyone here who has not read the Dresden Files, there will be copious spoilers in this thread which is a problem because at heart these are still mystery stories and I for one find it extremely difficult to enjoy a good mystery if I go into it already knowing the outcome. These are some very nice books, already ranking among my favorite fantasy series of all time, and I'd hate to ruin them for you. If you're curious about the series to see if it will engage you, this will not be a good thread after the first post. If there is any chance of you picking up these books in the near future, do yourself a favor and stop reading now.


So the series is about a hardboiled (it's very important to be hardboiled) wisecracking genre-savvy wizard/detective, Harry Dresden. Seriously, he's stuffed full of fantasy and film references and he pulls them out a lot. Always nice to have that bit of entertainment as you read. Harry's history doesn't really contain any secrets or surprises (with one glaring exception) being laid out in the first book. So, Harry's mom was a Wizard like himself who died in childbirth, leaving him her pentacle amulet. His dad was a stage magician who died when Harry was relatively young, and Harry was adopted by a man named Jason DuMourne. Mr. DuMourne was a warlock, human mage who breaks the rules, and trained Harry and his (Harry's) adopted sister-figure and eventual first lover Elaine to someday be powerful magical enforcers for him. At one point he mind-controls Elaine to trap Harry and tries the mind-whammy on him, but Harry escapes, defeats a demonic figure called He Who Walks Behind, kills Jason DuMourne and destroys the first of a great many buildings.

Harry is then tried by the White Council of Wizards. Relatively few mages/practioners have the power and skill to earn the rank of Wizard and join the White Council, but all human magic-users fall under their domain, and the primary use for a Council is to enforce the Seven Laws of magic, each one punishable by execution. The laws I paraphrase here:

1. Don't kill anyone (human) with magic. If you shoot someone, it's the mundane police's problem. If you dust a vampire, fine. But no shedding of human blood with the art.

2. Don't turn people into animals. The human mind fades away permanently, so this is really just an elaborate way of killing somebody which would skate the limits of the First Law, but not the Second, obviously.

3. No mind-reading or mind control. There are always unintended and horrible consequences and human brains are tricky enough already.

4. No magical mind-control, including controlling things like demons or fairies.

5. No Necromancy. Because what you get back is not going to be the same as what you lost.

6. No time travel. It makes everything about a thousand times more complicated and if you make the smallest mistake boom! universe-ending paradox.

7. No researching or disturbing the Lovecraftian horrors that wait beyond what we quaintly call "reality." Do I need to explain why this is a bad idea?

Small problem for Harry. He killed Jason DuMourne, using magic and is thus technically a warlock himself (bonus for usage of warlock, from a Old English root meaning "oath-breaker") and subject to decapitation. But the Council spares him as a first time offender in self-defense and puts him under the Doom of Damocles, essentially probation where any small offense will result in an immediate summary execution. He is salvaged by his Council-appointed teacher Ebenezer McCoy, who teaches him the wonder and beauty of magic, as well as some hard lessons in responsibility. Armed with this sense of responsibility, Harry becomes a private detective in Chicago and works to keep people safe from things that go bump in the night while staying just ahead of his bills by finding lost objects and consulting. Speaking of...

The Chicago City Police have a division, Special Investigations, that deals with the miscellaneous and weird, it's considered a crap posting so that's where they shuffled Karrin Murphy, a very short, very smart, incredibly tough woman Captain. She's the one who runs SI and thus the source of Harry's consulting checks. They start with some serious trust issues, which do get resolved, and considerable UST, I'll get back to you later on that.

Two other major characters from the first book, Bob is a talking skull. Well, he's a spirit of knowledge bound to a skull with flawless memory, and centuries of experience as effectively a wizarding PC, recalling every factoid, ritual and tricky bit of spellwork he's ever come across. He's also a huge fan of harlequin romances and generally lovably perverted. The other is Gentleman Johnny Marcone, the Chicago kingpin whose just a little too smart, ruthless and aware of things normally hidden from ordinary humans.

So throw in some murders, assorted weirdness, knights, fairies, vampires, werewolves, ghosts, warlocks, fallen angels and their mortal pawns and you get some very interesting years in the life of Harry Dresden. Right now I'm on book 10/15 and later I'll give my brief impressions of the books I've read so far.

[Terralthra]

I just found out that these are worthwhile recently and read through them all in about a week. Quite excellent writing, interesting stories and characters, great world-building.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think the man Harry killed with magic when he was a teenager was called Justin, not Jason.

[Vendetta]

Justin DuMorne

Allegedly burned to death, but also one of the prime candidates for the true identity of Cowl.

[Crazedwraith]

Second time, I've heard that theory. I'm not sure I buy it. Is there much reasoning beyond 'is the only powerful dark wizard we really know about?'

Anyway Dresden Files are always good fun, light fast reads and chock full of nerds references. Still I've been less enthusiastic about them since Changes.

[Spekio]

I find these books to be at best, Old World of Darkness fanfic -the assertion ahriman made that private eye/wizard in a semi-noir urban fantasy mashup started with Dresden files is preposterous.

When I first began to read, I remember our' protagonist's internal monologue in the first chapter or so about science being the world's latest religion or something that made me instantly remember the old Mage: The Ascension books. The whole series seems derivative of that.

I read until the Dead Beat one, since people would keep telling me the series would improve. It does not. The worldbuilding is poor, the world seems to revolve arround our protagonist (Both faerie courts in his city, the Merlin of the White Council giving a shit enough about dresden to execute some poor kid in front of him for no good reason, etc.), and that seems poor worldbuilding and lazy writing.

In my opinion, the writing seems ladden with Butcher's provincianism, and I have no idea why this series is popular.

[Ahriman238]

I think the man Harry killed with magic when he was a teenager was called Justin, not Jason.

First post and I already stick my foot in. Justin Dumourne.

I find these books to be at best, Old World of Darkness fanfic -the assertion ahriman made that private eye/wizard in a semi-noir urban fantasy mashup started with Dresden files is preposterous.

When I first began to read, I remember our' protagonist's internal monologue in the first chapter or so about science being the world's latest religion or something that made me instantly remember the old Mage: The Ascension books. The whole series seems derivative of that.

I read until the Dead Beat one, since people would keep telling me the series would improve. It does not. The worldbuilding is poor, the world seems to revolve arround our protagonist (Both faerie courts in his city, the Merlin of the White Council giving a shit enough about dresden to execute some poor kid in front of him for no good reason, etc.), and that seems poor worldbuilding and lazy writing.

In my opinion, the writing seems ladden with Butcher's provincianism, and I have no idea why this series is popular.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I can't say that the Dresden Files was the first series, and if I have issues thinking of an earlier one that probably reflects a lack of knowledge on my part rather than their not existing, but they sure seem to have exploded since.

Both faerie courts are in the Nevernever, accessible from Chicago, sure. But probably not exclusively Chicago. Everything went down in Chicago because that's where the Summer Knight lived and died, I sure doubt his opposite number was local. Though... maybe it would make sense to move one Knight so as to keep him in the same city/region as the other. As for the Merlin, Harry is the only warlock in recent memory to be spared and thus distrusted by default, plus Morgan his number two Warden (or maybe it's three?) has been watching Harry for years and has little good to say about him. Then there's Harry's general disrespect, defying his authority and unintentionally becoming a major obstacle to the peace process the Merlin seems so hell-bent on. It's not hard to imagine the man disliking Harry that much.

[Vendetta]

I find these books to be at best, Old World of Darkness fanfic -the assertion ahriman made that private eye/wizard in a semi-noir urban fantasy mashup started with Dresden files is preposterous.

When I first began to read, I remember our' protagonist's internal monologue in the first chapter or so about science being the world's latest religion or something that made me instantly remember the old Mage: The Ascension books. The whole series seems derivative of that.

There's almost certainly some of that in there. Jim Butcher is an enormous nerd.

However, the urban wizard genre are all really the sons of John Constantine. (Also reference: Felix Castor, the author of those books was Mike Carey who has done a good deal of Hellblazer as well)

I read until the Dead Beat one, since people would keep telling me the series would improve. It does not. The worldbuilding is poor, the world seems to revolve arround our protagonist (Both faerie courts in his city, the Merlin of the White Council giving a shit enough about dresden to execute some poor kid in front of him for no good reason, etc.), and that seems poor worldbuilding and lazy writing.

There's a reason for this. Harry is being played by a number of factions because of things he doesn't know.

[Spekio]

[qutoe] I can't say that the Dresden Files was the first series, and if I have issues thinking of an earlier one that probably reflects a lack of knowledge on my part rather than their not existing, but they sure seem to have exploded since.[/quote]

As Vendetta put it, Constantine started the trend, but I'm sure a popular iteration would lead to imitators. It's not a bad premisse per se, but it has been done so many times before that it feels tired and cliché. It borrows devices from other series that do not really fit with the world.

When I was reading the series, the "masquerade" thing bothered me a little. It's never really explained why there is a masquerade in the first place. When you have a police force in the city that deals with the supernatural (Murphy's father old unit) yet it remains hidden from the public at large, worldwide, it strains my disbelief. Dresden practices in the open, and one show of magic in front of scientists could dispel any doubts magic exists - and stop the countless murders of supernatural origin in Chicago alone.

Instead, we get the contrivance that magic messes with technology - that I did not get a good explanation as for why it does. It seems it's there because it's a staple with this genre.

I have some qualms on why the setting wouldn't work - Catholic Church being useful, for instance - but I get why he wanted to write on a world similar to ours - lazy. Understandable, sure, but tired and done none the less.

Plus, I despised some characters- Michael is a self-righteous prick, despite Harry's opinion otherwise, his wife is a fucking cunt, and Harry himself is kind of a douche. I'm still bugged for his deference to the christian god, but that surely comes from Butcher's provincialism, as stated before.

Of course, most of my qualms are subjective.

Both faerie courts are in the Nevernever, accessible from Chicago, sure. But probably not exclusively Chicago. Everything went down in Chicago because that's where the Summer Knight lived and died, I sure doubt his opposite number was local. Though... maybe it would make sense to move one Knight so as to keep him in the same city/region as the other.

Convenient that the Summer Knight lived there. And I got the impression that the younger winter queen lived there as well, with her knight raping the future summer queen when she was a changeling and Tolkien protecting her - but it has been a while, and I could be wrong.

As for the Merlin, Harry is the only warlock in recent memory to be spared and thus distrusted by default, plus Morgan his number two Warden (or maybe it's three?) has been watching Harry for years and has little good to say about him. Then there's Harry's general disrespect, defying his authority and unintentionally becoming a major obstacle to the peace process the Merlin seems so hell-bent on. It's not hard to imagine the man disliking Harry that much.

For being so all-powerfull he came out as petty. Plus, the things with the laws of magic in this setting seem iffy. In the first book, I got the impression they were natural laws of magic, but afterwards, when we learn they are laws of the white council, they seem silly. Merlin here punishing a stupid kid while his blackstaff is murdering innocent and guilty with satellite strikes.

Is there a magical tell when you kill someone ? Harry's mentor was good at hiding it, surely. Because he does not refrain from harming supernatural creatures, and there was no explanation why humans were special (just the tired old device of souls - Christian-centrism and we are back to Butcher's provincialism once more), and Harry's self imposed came off are stupid.

There's a reason for this. Harry is being played by a number of factions because of things he doesn't know.

That could be, but I did not read that far. Spoiler

His old supposed-dead girlfriend showing up with the summer court made me roll my eyes, for once. His not aforementioned super-special holy knight friend also seemed super-convenient.

[Ahriman238]

So first book, Storm Front, it's a book. There's a drug called 'Third Eye' on the street that gives people the Sight, letting them see the supernatural and the hidden truths of things and never, ever forget what they see. Plus dead bodies with exploded hearts. And in the middle of this a woman is asking Harry to find her missing husband. Various shennangians happen, Harry pisses off both Johnny Marcone and Bianca, the vampiress running the Velvet Room, an escort service. He narrowly escapes being arrested by both Murphy and Morgan, his Council-appointed watchdog. Finally he learns the missing husband, Victor Sells, is both the killer and the provider of Third Eye, which is apparently produced by orgy sex ritual. Sells dies after summoning a demon which Harry frees. Morgan, who summoned the Council to sit in judgment of Harry again, has to speak and clear his name, and the Doom of Damocles is lifted.

Body count- 3.

Ruins count- 2.

[Vendetta]

When I was reading the series, the "masquerade" thing bothered me a little. It's never really explained why there is a masquerade in the first place. When you have a police force in the city that deals with the supernatural (Murphy's father old unit) yet it remains hidden from the public at large, worldwide, it strains my disbelief. Dresden practices in the open, and one show of magic in front of scientists could dispel any doubts magic exists - and stop the countless murders of supernatural origin in Chicago alone.

A lot of the things you raise do get covered in later books, some of it might well have been a later patch over the rough bits of the series (and the first few books do have rough edges where things are getting kitchen sinked in and their places haven't quite meshed yet)

[Covenant]

I'm trying to read up on as much Noir derivative material as part of phase 2 of my next game development hurdle, so I got like the whole series of Dresden Files books from my fiancee's mom, who was happy to share. So far I find him really thin on the Noir aspects, which is fine, as Noir is basically a film movement and not a literary genre. I'd also call him a bit more... softboiled than hardboiled. The guy is not a beefcake or a rough guy, he's had a hard life but he's absolutely broke and a total shrimp, all things considered. I've only read Stormfront so I imagine he'll continue leveling up as time goes on, inevitably becoming the central figure in the entire universe, because that's what these books do. I'm guessing there'll be a peak level of hardboiledness before we get into demigod territory somewhere like... I don't know, book 4?

That's my guess.

Anyway, I look forward to reading more. I did not like Stormfront much at all, but having read a bit about the guy and how he basically wrote this as a paint-by-numbers "Fine, I'll write what you say me to" response amused me and I could see the cleverness of a mind under restraints down there. If or if not it becomes something actually great is entirely up in the air, but it'll be decent I imagine.

[Spekio]

A lot of the things you raise do get covered in later books, some of it might well have been a later patch over the rough bits of the series (and the first few books do have rough edges where things are getting kitchen sinked in and their places haven't quite meshed yet)

Yeah, sorry, if by the fifth book you haven't got your shit togheter you have spent all my good will.

I'm trying to read up on as much Noir derivative material as part of phase 2 of my next game development hurdle, so I got like the whole series of Dresden Files books from my fiancee's mom, who was happy to share. So far I find him really thin on the Noir aspects, which is fine, as Noir is basically a film movement and not a literary genre. I'd also call him a bit more... softboiled than hardboiled. The guy is not a beefcake or a rough guy, he's had a hard life but he's absolutely broke and a total shrimp, all things considered. I've only read Stormfront so I imagine he'll continue leveling up as time goes on, inevitably becoming the central figure in the entire universe, because that's what these books do. I'm guessing there'll be a peak level of hardboiledness before we get into demigod territory somewhere like... I don't know, book 4?

That's my guess.

Anyway, I look forward to reading more. I did not like Stormfront much at all, but having read a bit about the guy and how he basically wrote this as a paint-by-numbers "Fine, I'll write what you say me to" response amused me and I could see the cleverness of a mind under restraints down there. If or if not it becomes something actually great is entirely up in the air, but it'll be decent I imagine.

He does get beat up in every single book only to be rescued by an ally, so that's noirish, I guess.

[Ralin]

Yeah I don't think you need to worry about spoilers. There are very few things that people who have read this series enjoy more than watching new readers' reactions as they work their way through the books.

Justin DuMorne

Allegedly burned to death, but also one of the prime candidates for the true identity of Cowl.

Based on a pretty limited amount of information. The Justin DuMorne and disguised Senior Council member theories both boil down to the fact that Cowl is really goddamn powerful and Harry thinks he would recognize him without the hood. And the latter is just Harry's gut instinct, which could well be wrong. Butcher is not above throwing out red herrings.
Spoiler

Like Demonreach's limp.

That said,
Spoiler

I didn't really realize this until I listened to the audiobook of Dead Beat, but Cowl is described as sounding pretty much exactly like what I would expect a fomor to sound like.

[Vendetta]

Based on a pretty limited amount of information. The Justin DuMorne and disguised Senior Council member theories both boil down to the fact that Cowl is really goddamn powerful and Harry thinks he would recognize him without the hood. And the latter is just Harry's gut instinct, which could well be wrong. Butcher is not above throwing out red herrings.

Based also on the conservation of narrative detail.

Why does Cowl disguise his identity (corollary: why does he do this with non-magical means).

He disguises his identity because he would be recognised. He does not use magic because the nature of his veil would be recognised.

There would be no narrative point in having Cowl's identity withheld from Harry (and the reader) unless the revelation of that identity will be significant.

[Ralin]

Spoiler

Or possibly because he is an inhuman fish man and wants to keep that on the down low?

I just think that's really tenuous logic. There are a whole lot of reasons why Cowl would want to hide his identity that don't have anything to do with Harry recognizing him on sight. Like all the Wardens who would presumably want to behead him for necromancy.

I mean, what necromancer/warlock in their right minds wouldn't hide their identity in the Dresdenverse? Sure, Grevane didn't. But Grevane was an arrogant lunatic.

This is also assuming that Butcher had worked out exactly who Cowl was all the way back in Grave Peril, which I don't think is a given.

[Vendetta]

Spoiler

Or possibly because he is an inhuman fish man and wants to keep that on the down low?

Spoiler

Fomor are shapeshifters, he wouldn't need the cowl.

This is also assuming that Butcher had worked out exactly who Cowl was all the way back in Grave Peril, which I don't think is a given.

I suspect that at least the framework of who was who and why they did what they did at the ball in Grave Peril was in place. There are details in there that have just become significant in Cold Days (Lea tries to barter Amorraccius for Molly, oh look....), and things that haven't even come back yet (Cowl gave something to Ferrovax, and this will almost certainly be significant).


Simple fact is though, the books revolve around Harry Dresden, the identity of Cowl is irrelevant unless he is significant to Harry Dresden somehow.

[Ralin]

Spoiler

Fomor are shapeshifters, he wouldn't need the cowl.

I don't remember that. Where is it stated?

I suspect that at least the framework of who was who and why they did what they did at the ball in Grave Peril was in place. There are details in there that have just become significant in Cold Days (Lea tries to barter Amorraccius for Molly, oh look....), and things that haven't even come back yet (Cowl gave something to Ferrovax, and this will almost certainly be significant).

Well, yes and no. It’s clear that Butcher does have the general plot of the series mapped out well in advance. He’s even said he’s had the outline written since high school. But this is still a very long series and I expect that there are hooks that Butcher included early on with the intention of developing them later in future books without having decided exactly what he was going to do with them.

Simple fact is though, the books revolve around Harry Dresden, the identity of Cowl is irrelevant unless he is significant to Harry Dresden somehow.

He’s significant because he’s a crazy powerful wizard who Dresden has butted heads with and because he’s involved with this Circle/Black Council, whatever it turns out to be. Which doesn’t require him to be Justin or Simon Petrovich. I mean, we know important things happen off-screen and in the background, like the attack on Archangel or the various Red Court offensives.

[Vendetta]

He’s significant because he’s a crazy powerful wizard who Dresden has butted heads with and because he’s involved with this Circle/Black Council, whatever it turns out to be. Which doesn’t require him to be Justin or Simon Petrovich. I mean, we know important things happen off-screen and in the background, like the attack on Archangel or the various Red Court offensives.

Unless Cowl isn't someone Harry would recognise, why is his identity concealed?

No really, serious question.

Because this is how writing works.

[Ralin]

Unless Cowl isn't someone Harry would recognise, why is his identity concealed?

No really, serious question.

Because this is how writing works.

Presumably because someone other than Harry might recognize him? Or because he just wants to keep his face from being seen on general principles due to the fact that he's in a shadowy super-secret society dedicated to destroying the White Council and summoning Outsiders or whatever the hell it is they want to do? Harry may be the main character, but Cowl did have other things to worry about. Like the disciples of Kemmler. Or the various other supernatural players in Chicago. He likely thought that Harry was relatively unthreatening by comparison.

I don't doubt that Butcher keeps some sort of timeline of what his characters are doing that neither we nor Harry are aware of. One which almost certainly includes characters we haven't even heard of yet.

[Vendetta]

Or because he just wants to keep his face from being seen on general principles due to the fact that he's in a shadowy super-secret society dedicated to destroying the White Council and summoning Outsiders or whatever the hell it is they want to do?

That hardly marks him out as unique, yet Cowl is the only character whose identity has been consistently concealed, and concealed in a way which draws attention to the fact that it is being concealed.

The only reason an author conceals something from the reader in this way is so that he can later reveal it, and revealing something that the audience has no reason to care about the revelation of is pointless.

[Gaidin]

Unless Cowl isn't someone Harry would recognise, why is his identity concealed?

No really, serious question.

Because this is how writing works.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a question of whether Harry would recognize him. Hell, Harry doesn't even have to recognize him right away if he weren't concealing his identity. Harry goes to meetings over the series. See Cowl in Book 7(Dead Beat), don't know him. Go to meeting in Book 11(Turn Coat, assuming I have my numbers right), go 'Holy shit, I know you!'. Theoretically just has to be a Wizard and know that he's going to run into other Wizards on his activities as Cowl, and he doesn't want those Wizards to recognize him as such when he's not on Cowl activities.

It makes for a greater 'Oh shit' moment if it's someone personal to Harry of course, and better drama. That's the source of the DuMourne theory, but there are more and better candidates than that anyway. But it's not totally necessary to justify a disguise when you're throwing around magic that gets your head cut off should you get caught.

[Vendetta]

See previous point.

You have to remember to think about the story as a story not as a real sequence of events.

Why is Cowl's identity secret from the reader.

[Gaidin]

You have to remember to think about the story as a story not as a real sequence of events.

Why is Cowl's identity secret from the reader.

It's secret from the reader because it's a first person story and we have no omniscient narrator. As long as Harry doesn't know, we don't know. You really actually do have to think about this story as a sequence of events as well. Not only when does Harry see Cowl's face, but when he's able to put a name to the face. Seeing Cowl work, seeing Cowl's face, and putting a name to Cowl's face, those can be three distinct events in a first person story, and we've only seen one of them(the first) many different times.

[Scrib]

As for the Merlin, Harry is the only warlock in recent memory to be spared and thus distrusted by default, plus Morgan his number two Warden (or maybe it's three?) has been watching Harry for years and has little good to say about him. Then there's Harry's general disrespect, defying his authority and unintentionally becoming a major obstacle to the peace process the Merlin seems so hell-bent on. It's not hard to imagine the man disliking Harry that much.

For being so all-powerfull he came out as petty.

It makes perfect sense. Black magic corrupts. Rooting out any sign of it protects the White Council from the slippery slope of acceptance. Harry undermines this. And not only does he do this, for the longest time it's not actually clear that he can be trusted. Spoiler

Not to mention his deliberate fucking up of the peace in order to save his girlfriend. A significant portion of his Order died because Harry is a fucking moron, you think that slides? We're literally talking about the difference between some sort of autonomous human civilization and a planet full of chattel. For one reporter. (And no, the issues that later come to light are no excuse because Harry didn't know of them)

And him being petty is not at all a meaningful critique in the first place.

Plus, the things with the laws of magic in this setting seem iffy. In the first book, I got the impression they were natural laws of magic, but afterwards, when we learn they are laws of the white council, they seem silly. Merlin here punishing a stupid kid while his blackstaff is murdering innocent and guilty with satellite strikes.

The effects of magic are natural phenomena. The bad stuff is addictive and corruptive. This is fact in the series. No one denies this. The laws are just dealing with this. You take a shot and we kill you. End of. It's a way to delineate between the acceptable uses of magic and the unacceptable ones. What exactly is so iffy here?

Also: the Blackstaff is special for reasons made clear in the series so that means nothing. It's not just a principled thing, it is a matter of practicality too. Everyone takes the corruptible nature of souls for granted, it is not just that people arte being murdered: it's that allowing certain forms of magic to be practiced will only fuck more people later on. If you are immune to the usual effects of black magic then you get to murder people. I don't see the problem.