Heresy Era CSM legion question(s)

[Lord Revan]

I was wondering would the Horus Heresy era traitor legions be more like their later incarnations, meaning lots of spikes and chaos iconography and legions themselves being barely held together by the will of the primarchs or more like their pre-heresy incarnations meaning they're still fairly well organized and displinied fighting force with just the imperial iconography removed or defaced (and possibly some chaos symbols added).

[Lord Revan]

Oops wrong forum, could a kind mod or admin please move this to the scifi forum

[Sinewmire]

From the Horus Heresy fluff, the only Legion that really went off the rails were the Emperor's Children, as they completely lost sight of the war, and went around indulging their whims and attacking strategically unviable targets - ie. population centres to be rendered down into chemicals or killed for fun during the siege of the Emperor's Palace. The world eaters collapsed as a Legion due to civil war after the Siege of Terror, so presumably inside the Eye.

I think the lack of discipline was only on a personal level at this point.

As for looks? The most Chaos-y looking were the word bearers. They adopted their current iconography and colours - Red instead of Grey, spikes and evil stuff all over the place - quite quickly. The others mostly kept their old colours but without the Imperial Eagles and suchlike, although there were a lot more heads as tropies and chaos stars - and kept their organisation intact, although the Lodge Masters seem to have gained status. Even the World Eaters were in their blue and white armour for the Siege of Terra, according to the art books.

[Ahriman238]

The Emperor's children descended in to debauchry so quickly they were hardly recognizable by the time of the Dropsite Massacre. Which was the same battle that saw the first use of Possessed Marines by the Word Bearers. The World Eaters were just as nuts by this time as in the present. The Death Guard didn't become all sickly plague marines until the voyage from Isstvan to Terra, but there isolated breakouts of plaguebearers and at least on Death Guard became a sort of Daemon Prince of Nurgle. The Rubric of Ahriman was cast before the Thousand Sons joined the fray.

I'd say that by the siege of Terra, the followers of Chaos were pretty much as we see them today. The only major thing is that many of the legions have fragmented into smaller warbands since then, their Primarchs Daemons now and uniterested in maintaining order. That, and no Obliterators.

[Irbis]

The others mostly kept their old colours but without the Imperial Eagles and suchlike, although there were a lot more heads as tropies and chaos stars - and kept their organisation intact, although the Lodge Masters seem to have gained status.

Nitpick - since Eagles were added to armor only after Second Founding, and before that, EC were the only Legion having the right to use Aquila, 'keeping' Eagles would be kind of hard

The Death Guard didn't become all sickly plague marines until the voyage from Isstvan to Terra, but there isolated breakouts of plaguebearers and at least on Death Guard became a sort of Daemon Prince of Nurgle. The Rubric of Ahriman was cast before the Thousand Sons joined the fray.

Daemon Prince of Nurgle? Where?

As for Rubric, wasn't it cast long after Heresy failed? Or was that retconned again?

[Lord Revan]

he might be referring to "Lord of Flies" that was a powerfull nurgelite daemon (it's not specified if it's a great unclean one, a daemon prince or just a powerfull lesser daemon)

[Ahriman238]

@Irbis, Fall of Prospero- Rubric- Thousand Sons join the Siege of Terra. At least as far as I understand these events from the HH book series. Then again, there should be about 2 years between Prospero and Terra, as the books have laid it out, for the rubric.

Actually I was thinking of that captain, also from Flight of the Eissenstein, who turned into something like a smaller Great Unclean One. Human turning into a moderately powerful Daemon says Daemon Prince to me.

[Lord Revan]

I'll have to reread that but I'm pretty sure that it was just a case of a possesing daemon pretending to be the host to make Garro give up the fight.

[Irbis]

@Irbis, Fall of Prospero- Rubric- Thousand Sons join the Siege of Terra. At least as far as I understand these events from the HH book series. Then again, there should be about 2 years between Prospero and Terra, as the books have laid it out, for the rubric.

I'm pretty sure all sources I saw for casting of the Rubric say it happened on newly conquered Planet of Sorcerers, after Magnus become Daemon Prince, both events being significantly post-Heresy.

I'll have to reread that but I'm pretty sure that it was just a case of a possesing daemon pretending to be the host to make Garro give up the fight.

This, IMHO, if that was really Daemon Prince he would have turned brains of everyone present inside out with a mere thought.

[Manus Celer Dei]

@Irbis, Fall of Prospero- Rubric- Thousand Sons join the Siege of Terra. At least as far as I understand these events from the HH book series. Then again, there should be about 2 years between Prospero and Terra, as the books have laid it out, for the rubric.

I'm pretty sure all sources I saw for casting of the Rubric say it happened on newly conquered Planet of Sorcerers, after Magnus become Daemon Prince, both events being significantly post-Heresy.

A Thousand Sons explicitly shows Magnus becoming a Daemon Prince prior to the seige of Terra. Given how screwy time is in the warp I wouldn't be surprised if the time between their flight to the Planet of Sorcerers and the casting of the Rubric was a good while subjectively, for the Thousand Sons, and yet still before the siege started on Terra.