"Frozen" talkback

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"Frozen" talkback

Post by Ahriman238 »

So I got dragged out to see a Disney animated movie at the theater for the first time since (carry the 6) 1995. Namely 'Frozen,' Disney's new take on The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Andersen (the Danish fairytale writer who also wrote "the Little Mermaid" "the Princess and the Pea" "the Emperor's New Clothes" etc.) And to my surprise I found it... really good.

Don't get me wrong, it has less to do with The Snow Queen than the Desolation of Smaug did with The Hobbit. Being generous I counted five very tenuous connections to the book. Midway through the list is "they each have a reindeer." But, (and I feel terrible for even thinking this about one of the most beloved children's' stories of all time) I kind of like the Disney version better. The characters are more complex, and so more interesting. The situation is totally different, and likewise more interesting.

The songs really work, particularly the duets. The jokes really work, and I appreciate that like the Disney flicks of my childhood there are gags specifically for the adults in there. The plot moves with energy and efficiency, there was only one part that really felt dragged out (the death fake-out every movie they make must have.) All the discussion of love, true love and what it all means is surprisingly intelligent and self-aware. Even the comedic sidekick character isn't really that annoying.

My only real complaints are the death fake-out and the ending felt a bit too pat and neat. But, it's Disney. I can't believe I'm throwing away my masculinity credit on the board like this, but if you have the time and money, I suggest you see this in the theater while you can. It just feels like good old movie magic.

Oh, and there was an animated short at the beginning starring Mickey Mouse. Are we doing those again?

And just because it's a first post, I'll spoiler the parts you didn't know would be there when you saw the word Disney.
Spoiler
The parents die. :)

There are two princesses. Elsa has ice powers she can't control, and almost killed her little sister Anna with them in the first five minutes. Elsa keeps her powers a secret from the world and lives in isolation and mortal terror of hurting someone. Anna had all her memories erased, and has no idea why Big Sis stopped playing with her, and the castle was locked up and most of the staff fired. Anna spends the ensuing years going slowly insane from loneliness and boredom. Their parents die and several years later Elsa is crowned Queen of Arrendale, opening the castle gates for the first time since they were very small, by which time the sisters are effectively strangers to each other.

Anna, being the cheerful impulsive one, meets a guy that morning and agrees to marry him that night. Elsa has a sensible reaction, which turns into an argument, which leads to Elsa revealing her magic to the world and fleeing Arrendale, freezing the city and harbor in the process. Anna pursues, meets an outcast ice-seller and his reindeer, and a living snowman Elsa unintentionally created while reveling in her powers and her ability to use them on a mountaintop with no one around to get hurt. She also makes an ice palace.

Hijinks of the wacky variety occur, Anna and sidekicks get to the ice palace. Unfortunately, Anna has not learned her lesson about backing off and giving her sister space while she's freaking out, and gets tagged with another ice-bolt. This leads to her heart slowing freezing, which will kill her unless some act of true love is performed on/by/with her. Her sidekicks and manly ice-seller rush her home to her new fiancé, but it turns out he was -gasp- only using her to get to the throne! And he's captured Elsa!

Further hijinks ensue, including the comedic sidekick snowman explaining what love is. Followed by the line "Bad news, I guess Christof doesn't love you enough to leave you." And this ends with Elsa creating a blizzard and all the main characters wandering around the frozen harbor in it: Elsa running, the villain pursuing, the lovebirds going for that lifesaving kiss. To stop Elsa, the villain tells her she killed Anna, which makes the blizzard stop. And Anna uses her body to shield her sister from the villain's sword, which is enough act of true love to save her after the fake-out. Yeah, the dying princess saves herself and the manly hero is sort of superfluous to the climax. I'm cool with that.

Which is where the pat ending comes in, once the snowman explains to Elsa and the really young or slow audience members why Anna isn't dead, she figures that all she has to do is focus on her feelings of love to unfreeze everything. Guy and girl get together, sisters resolve their differences, villains get their comeuppance, wacky hijinks with the minor characters, roll credits.


All the duets between the sisters really set up how different, yet alike they are. Elsa is calm, reserved, responsible and lives with a crushing terror of letting anyone close enough to harm, while Anna is a bubbly extrovert starved for human interaction. They both effectively grew up alone after the accident and their parents' deaths, and they react in different ways to that. Elsa is happy to be alone, she can't hurt anyone, Anna hates to be alone. It's very easy to empathize with both girls.

Actually, I really liked all the songs, even the snowman's intro song had enough clever word-play and sight gags to keep me entertained. And I'm pretty sure there was genuine Norwegian in the first song.

I won't give away the jokes, I'll just say there was only one gag in the thing that fell flat for me.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by FaxModem1 »

I really liked the film, and thought "Let it Go" was one of the best Disney songs to come out in years.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Ahriman238 »

I liked 'Fixer-Upper' but perhaps I'm still in shock that Disney snuck in the lyrics "Or his thing with the reindeer/that's a little outside of nature's laws."
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by LadyTevar »

Nitram and I saw "Frozen", and we've been singing the songs for days. It is just as much fun for Adults as it was for Children, and I adored all of it. The "True Love" save was totally out of the blue, but worked so well for the relationship between the protagonists. I think it inverted many of the Disney tropes, and that is a a Good Thing imho.

The Villian of the piece was NOT whom I expected, but as is repeated throughout, "Beware the Frozen Heart". That person had ice in the veins, far more than even Olaf. Also there is a couple funny things in the credits, like credit to the "Caffeinator" and a stinger with everyone's favorite Marshmellow.

BTW: Olaf's song -- "Winter is nice for warmth and cuddles, but in Summertime I would be a ..." (PUDDLE!!!) "... very happy Snowman..." (Yes, I yelled it in the theater. I am not ashamed.)

OH! DID YOU HEAR?!
They're re-releasing it with a bouncing-snowflake SINGALONG track!!! "FROZEN: Singalong" :) I must go Karaoke the movie now. I've got "Let It Go" memorized. But I don't think I could sing "Would You Like To Build A Snowman" without crying. That was just a heartbreaking way to show the split between the sisters, as well as how Elsa's powers were getting away from her.
Spoiler
You would think after the Troll warned them that Fear would make it worse, the Parents would realize locking her away would make the Fear worse. The more they wanted her to hide it, the more it scared her, and the less control she had.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Ahriman238 »

Yeah, my sister got the soundtrack before dragging us to movie and she wouldn't stop singing most of the day. Though in her case it was mostly "Do you want to build a snowman" all of it sung as cheerfully as the first time.
Spoiler
I called Hans as the villain pretty early, probably for the wrong reasons. I figured he and Anna hit it off a bit too quickly (did like their song though) as Elsa pointed out, and then here's a guy whose obviously going to be her companion on this adventure and yeah... Not a lot left for Hans to do but be a bad guy. Though thinking back he was pretty thick for a.) beginning his seduction of Anna by running her over with a horse and b.) leaving Anna for dead instead of doing the deed himself or just sitting there a minute to make sure. Regicide is not a hobby for assumption or half-measures.

They already have a singalong version here, but going again is not in the budget. :(


I think the parents really saw locking everything up as a short term solution, for everyone's safety until Elsa can control her powers. Smart girl like her should be able to figure this out in a month, right? No? Two months? Six? A year? A bunch? More and more time and they didn't know what to do so kept on with what they were doing. In other circumstances I'd be asking why they didn't have Elsa cut loose, practice instead of trying and failing to suppress it, in the hopes of mastery. Then I think about what happened when she finally did start using her powers without restraint...
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by FaxModem1 »

Well, a bit part of Elsa and her parents is that her parents mean well, but they are acting out of what they think is right, which is damaging the child. As this article notes, the parents are doing a very subtle and unintentional form of abuse on her.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by SylasGaunt »

I saw it and the best way I can think of to describe it is that they take the time to very carefully set up a classic Disney formula (with two princesses even!), getting you ready for the ending and progression you know is coming... then proceed to dropkick the whole thing and run off in another direction cackling.

I also really like that both Anna and Elsa take a very direct hand in solving their respective problems, and neither was helpless in situations where princess types usually seem to end up needing someone else to save them.
Spoiler
Anna: Got cursed, broke it.
Elsa: Got imprisoned, broke free.
Also I can seriously get behind any Princess who can Spoiler
just punch her evil fiance right in the damn mouth.


On a personal note I love that Elsa was a queen. Yes, thank you for remembering that princessdom is not forever for once. So many other things tend not to.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Ahriman238 »

Apparently there was a contrived controversy where some people got upset at one of the head animators for mentioning how hard it is to make the princesses faces so expressive while still being pretty. Apparently this is somehow sexist.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by LadyTevar »

Ahriman238 wrote:Apparently there was a contrived controversy where some people got upset at one of the head animators for mentioning how hard it is to make the princesses faces so expressive while still being pretty. Apparently this is somehow sexist.
There was a uproar about that, yes. It was the whole "Princesses Must Be Pretty" that set it off, iirc. I didn't pay much attention to it, as I feel the animator was right. Frozen has a lot of great facial expressions, just look at the Party in the Castle to see the range Elsa goes through. Now, try to keep the "pretty pretty princess" looking good when Elsa bluntly states "Then Leave" and Anna goes off.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Ahriman238 »

Well, making a face capable of nuanced expression with CGI is pretty hard, I imagine making it all work and be pretty and not at all uncanny valley-y would be a lot harder.

I hardly think anyone whose seen the movie can complain it's sexist, they even had a gag about the "princesses must be pretty" thing in the beginning.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Steve »

This movie is the best animated movie I think I've seen since Lilo & Stitch.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Thanas »

Best animated movie since Mulan for me.

And Idina Menzel is simply great.

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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Xess »

I've seen it twice now. It's a great film and it has made Idina Menzel one of my favorite singers. The last animated film I like this much was probably The Lion King. I think my favorite song was the reprise of For the First Time in Forever, the duet is great.
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Post by Thanas »

You should watch Wicked then or Rent.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

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Thanas wrote:You should watch Wicked then or Rent.
I've been listening to Wicked actually. It's great stuff.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Ahriman238 »

Had the opportunity to rewatch with my fiancé. There's not a ton of details you see on a second viewing that escape you the first time around. But I'll note these:

When Ana announces her plan to ride after Elsa and stop her, one of the Duke of Weaseltown's goons gives a perfect 'oh please' look that really cracked me up for some reason.

Elsa's door is painted with snowflake patterns, as were her bedcovers before the accident. At first I thought 'way to hide the ice powers, there.' But once I was looking I noticed that all but two of Ana's dresses during the film had little flowers, and the flower and snowflake motifs repeated themselves throughout the castle. Okay, mostly the flowers, but there were definitely carved snowflakes in the study and the chapel where Elsa gets crowned.

I also believe I saw the mark or banner of Arrendale. For the coronation there are two banners, one showing the princesses' profiles in gold, on green or purple. The second showed a gold flower, I think it was a stylized tulip (but what I know of flowers would fit a long pamphlet) on a divided field. Purple on the left, green on the right (winter and summer?) the same shades as Elsa's coronation dress. A more elaborate version is set in the fireplace mantle in the scenes where Ana isn't kissed by Hans and then talks about love with Olaf.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

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Ahriman238 wrote: When Ana announces her plan to ride after Elsa and stop her, one of the Duke of Weaseltown's goons gives a perfect 'oh please' look that really cracked me up for some reason.
WESELTON! WESELTON!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Thanas wrote:Best animated movie since Mulan for me.

And Idina Menzel is simply great.

*Snip Video*

I prefer it in other German or Nordic languages to be honest. Thankfully, Disney has been obliging that way.

That said...

There were all sorts of things I noticed when I saw this movie. I will admit, I called the villain early.
Spoiler
The second I heard Hans was a 13th son, my Game of Thrones sensor kicked in.
Had the opportunity to rewatch with my fiancé. There's not a ton of details you see on a second viewing that escape you the first time around. But I'll note these:
I will note another few

There is no christianity to be seen. Anywhere. Even during the Coronation, where there is a Bishop, the priests are singing in Norwegian (I think), and there are runic patterns on various things. It is almost as if a Norse culture developed into the.... Renaissance/Baroque Magical Pastiche period.

Then there is another one. The Stealth Gay at Oaken's Trading Post.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Lord Revan »

it's suppose to be 18th or 19th century right? in real life Norway would lutherian in that era so all the hymns would be in Norwegian as for the rest I dunno I've yet to see the movie fully.
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by LadyTevar »

Yes, it seems the Kingdom's coat of arms is the golden tulip on a green/purple background, thus the queen's coronation gown was in those colors. It was done in Medieval period, but not so much today. Hard to see Queen Elizabeth walking into Parliment wearing a red gown with three gold lions down the front, isn't it. :lol:

As for the snowflake/flower motif all throughtout the palace, it was on gowns, on walls, on windows, even in the town. The artists went to Norway and borrowed those very motifs from traditional artwork. As a seamstress, I was trilled by all the embroidery. Rewatching the music videos has let me pick out so much detail ... like the fact the Queen Mom is wearing a fancy apron-dress in the scene where Elsa is screaming "don't touch me".
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Ahriman238 »

So it is a tulip?

Also, some people have too much time on their hands and an offbeat sense of humor.

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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by LadyTevar »

Ahriman238 wrote:So it is a tulip?
Close enough. Heraldic flowers seldom match exactly. :oops:
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

You know this was an ADORABLE Movie that I liked a lot more than I thought.
I mean, any Disney movie you automatically know your going to get a fair amount of "Schmaltz"
I did like that a lot of conventions it sort of broke away from. Spoiler
Prince Charming who seems too good to be true turns out to be a jerk
"Act of true love" turns out to be Sister protecting sister instead of a kiss
My only thing is that I was secretly hoping the "Obviously creepy Weasel guy" would have SOME redeeming qualities.
I mean, wouldn't it be a nice contrast to go with "Obviously nice guy is an asshole" and then "Obviously creepy guy" would turn out to, I don't know, have some redeeming moment or quality?
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Serafina »

Well, at least he is reacting emotionally to quite a few things Spoiler
Annas supposed death, her freezing into a statue, Hans being punched in the face by Anna
, which makes him way less creepy than "Prince Charming".
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Re: "Frozen" talkback

Post by Ahriman238 »

Been some days since the Oscars, and Frozen took Best Animated (no surprise) and 'Let it go' Best Song.
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