The Silver Surfer versus Superman...

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2007-10-03 11:53pm

I did a search and didn't see this topic, so...

Suppose the Silver Surfer comes to Earth to prepare it for consumption by the entity Galactus, as portrayed in the film "Fantastic Four 2".

However, instead of the Fantastic Four being the local heros, this is the version of Earth that has Superman as it's local hero, as portrayed in "Superman Returns".

What would we expect with the interaction between those two? Could Superman stop the Silver Surfer, and if so also stop Galactus from arriving or stop him when he does?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-03 11:57pm

[CBR]silver surfer is defeated by kung-fu holds! he hasa nothing on Kal-El lol!!![/CBR]

I'm not familiar with the circumstances surrounding the Fantastic Four's 'turning' of the Silver Surfer. What'd they do?

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2007-10-04 12:01am

Stark wrote:[CBR]silver surfer is defeated by kung-fu holds! he hasa nothing on Kal-El lol!!![/CBR]

I'm not familiar with the circumstances surrounding the Fantastic Four's 'turning' of the Silver Surfer. What'd they do?

Essentially, Sue Storm reminded the Silver Surfer of his long lost love and the Fantastic Four rescued him from military interrogation and torture, so he agreed to stop Galactus.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-04 12:04am

So he's reasonable, not under Galactus's mental control? I wonder if Boy Scout's moral platitudes would penetrate: I'd imagine not.

Isn't it kind of odious that he's so easily turned from his job as a MASS MURDERER?

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-10-04 12:22am

Can the Surfer's strange cosmic radiation field affect Superman? His kinetic blast against Doom didn't seem that impressive.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-10-04 12:33am

Off to the glory of fantasy.

And before we go further...try and make some quantified points. Really, as I've said before...I am just a tad tired about it all.

lance · Post by **lance** » 2007-10-04 01:35am

Stark wrote:So he's reasonable, not under Galactus's mental control? I wonder if Boy Scout's moral platitudes would penetrate: I'd imagine not.

Isn't it kind of odious that he's so easily turned from his job as a MASS MURDERER?

I really don't think its murder. If Galactus starves to death the universe kinda goes with him. At least in the comics. In fact at the end of Annihilation SS says he was wrong to go against Galactus.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-04 01:48am

How does that make it better? He pops a boner and some guys break him out of pokey and he dooms the universe to destruction? Swell guy!

Drowsong · Post by **Drowsong** » 2007-10-06 02:35pm

According to the Marvel wiki (or database), the Silver Surfer's max strength is "unlimited" with enough "Power Cosmic" or whatever.

I'd say Superman is in trouble.

From Marvel Database
The Silver Surfer possesses vast superhuman strength, which he can further enhance using his Power Cosmic to a level rivaling that of an enraged Savage Hulk. At this strength level, he can lift (press) well over 100 tons. When further Augmented, The Silver Surfer's strength can reach infinite levels, with enough physical strength to confront even Galactus.

Also,

From Marvel Database]
Incalculable; when sated Galactus possesses a level of strength beyond the human ability to measure or quantify. Additionally, Galactus can use the Power Cosmic to further enhance his strength to virtually infinite levels.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-10-06 02:43pm

Ah this old chestnut.

I'll give this as a piece of advice. Using Handbook to the Marvel universe stats are about as good as going "Enterprise-D is immune to lasers."

And leave it at that.

Drowsong · Post by **Drowsong** » 2007-10-06 02:51pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Ah this old chestnut.

I'll give this as a piece of advice. Using Handbook to the Marvel universe stats are about as good as going "Enterprise-D is immune to lasers."

And leave it at that.

I'm familier with many of the SWvST arguements, as I lurk here at work from time to time.

I haven't seen any discussion on the Marvel Database, however, and so I didn't know it was along the same lines of idiocy/wank.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2007-10-06 02:55pm

The trouble with even thinking about a comic book versus is that there really is no consistency in the presentation of any characters' abilities. You're essentially pissing in the wind the moment you try.

Drowsong · Post by **Drowsong** » 2007-10-06 02:58pm

Vendetta wrote:The trouble with even thinking about a comic book versus is that there really is no consistency in the presentation of any characters' abilities. You're essentially pissing in the wind the moment you try.

True. Even the same authors will bend and stretch a characters abilities to based on the need of the moment, or to create drama. Let alone multiple authors working on multiple characters.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-10-06 04:18pm

The OP specified the movie Silver Surfer and the movie Superman (from Superman Returns). Silver Surfer is seen to blast Doom away from him and fly around the world very quickly. I think he knocks a missile out of the air. This less impressive than lifting a small island of kryptonite into orbit, I think.

Drowsong · Post by **Drowsong** » 2007-10-06 04:28pm

Crom wrote:The OP specified the movie Silver Surfer and the movie Superman (from Superman Returns). Silver Surfer is seen to blast Doom away from him and fly around the world very quickly. I think he knocks a missile out of the air. This less impressive than lifting a small island of kryptonite into orbit, I think.

True, despite the fact that lifting the island would be like lifting a sand caste with a needle

No matter how strong you are, you're just going to go right through it. The fact that the thing was falling apart kinda showed it wasn't really that stable or strong.

Anyways, do we really see the upper limits of their strength? (Either of them?) The Surfer was beaten via technobabble I believe (separation from his board), and Superman is beaten via Kryptonite. (Unless I'm forgetting something.)

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2007-10-06 04:56pm

I don't think I've ever seen the Silver Surfer demonstrate the kind of physical strength that Superman regularly demonstrates without even becoming short of breath, e.g., lifting a large cargo ship out of the sea and physically carrying it around the world. And Superman has reportedly survived attacks with nuclear weapons; I haven't seen the Silver Surfer's energy blasts (or whatever his attacks are called) demonstrate destructive power comparable to a nuke. As far as I know (and I admit I read very few Silver Surfer or Fantastic Four comics),
Superman > the Silver Surfer.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-10-06 05:01pm

Sidewinder wrote:I don't think I've ever seen the Silver Surfer demonstrate the kind of physical strength that Superman regularly demonstrates without even becoming short of breath, e.g., lifting a large cargo ship out of the sea and physically carrying it around the world. And Superman has reportedly survived attacks with nuclear weapons; I haven't seen the Silver Surfer's energy blasts (or whatever his attacks are called) demonstrate destructive power comparable to a nuke. As far as I know (and I admit I read very few Silver Surfer or Fantastic Four comics),
Superman > the Silver Surfer.

I haven't seen Superjesus: The Second Coming or whatever it is they repackaged as Superman Returns, but in the comics, yes, Superman has taken a nuke and been alright. It really depends on the context of the story though, so comparing this in terms of comics is a bad idea, as I don't think we see that level of unstoppability in the movie, do we? At maximum power demonstrations, Superman is a force of the goddamn apocolypse, but that's not what we're comparing for the purposes of the versus. It's just movie versus movie.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2007-10-06 05:13pm

And movie vs movie, Silver Surfer loses. Hard. All he does in FF2 is do funky EMP shit, move moderately fast, and do a not all that impressive Force Push on Doom. Well and technobabble movie Galactus out of existence but feel free to quantify that.
Returns Clark lifts a considerably kryptonite island out of Earth's gravity well AFTER being stabbed with a kryptonite shiv.
Rise of the Silver Surfer vs Superman Returns, my money is on the Big Blue Schoolboy.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-06 07:48pm

Drowsong wrote:True, despite the fact that lifting the island would be like lifting a sand caste with a needle No matter how strong you are, you're just going to go right through it. The fact that the thing was falling apart kinda showed it wasn't really that stable or strong.

Are you serious? You quote the Marvel Handbook and then come back with 'lol strutural strength'?

Superman Returns, if nothing else, shows that Superman has vast reserves of strength he doesn't use (or his loltastic TK field isn't strong enough somehow). He struggled to stop a plane in full sunlight, but then after getting assraped can lift a giant asteroid into space, after all.

Drowsong wrote:Anyways, do we really see the upper limits of their strength? (Either of them?) The Surfer was beaten via technobabble I believe (separation from his board), and Superman is beaten via Kryptonite. (Unless I'm forgetting something.)

He was also defeated by Black Panther and put in an arm-lock. Whoo, he's fucking scary. To my knowledge, the SS is also really stupid (plot-wise) and won't have the usual 'not a retard' advantage people usually get over Superman.

Shannon · Post by **Shannon** » 2007-10-07 03:31am

He struggled to stop a plane in full sunlight,

To be fair, he was probably more concerned about the passengers than the plane, which was falling to bits every time he tried something. It took him a while to get in gear IIRC. Maybe he was off his game after being away so long and had to struggle to exert the right level of power? After all, when you've got the kind of strength/TK that Superman has, it can't always be easy exerting just the right amount.

but then after getting assraped can lift a giant asteroid into space, after all.

Brute-force wise, this is impressive in my book (and yes I know it's only low/middling compared to comics Supes). Has anyone actually come up with a reasonable estimate for the mass of the island? If we had that we could work out how much energy he would've exerted to boost it out of the gravity well from the seabed. I know that the Kryptonian crystal-tech thingie was altering whatever it came into contact with to create the 'new' land mass, but it also had to work with what was available - hence the different colour of Luthor's island compared to the Fortress. To state what should be obvious, it didn't create something from nothing. 6 million tonnes of ice masses just the same as 6 million tonnes of granite (for example).

une · Post by **une** » 2007-10-07 10:58am

If this fight is between the movie surfer and the movie Superman I would have to call it a draw. While movie Superman is probably more powerful than movie Surfer, there's nothing that he can do to hurt the Surfer. In the Fantastic Four movie the Surfer could become completely intangible. This makes Superman main attack, a punch, completely useless. The only way Superman could have a chance of hurting the Silver Surfer is if he used his heat vision and judging from the way the Surfer handled Johnny Storm, I don't think heat vision is going to affect the Surfer very much.

A battle between the comic versions is an entirely different matter though. The Silver Surfer has completely control over matter, so he turns Superman into an apple and wins.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2007-10-07 11:28am

une wrote:A battle between the comic versions is an entirely different matter though. The Silver Surfer has completely control over matter, so he turns Superman into an apple and wins.

Has the Silver Surfer ever used such a tactic against an enemy in the comics?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-10-07 11:29am

Sidewinder wrote:
une wrote:A battle between the comic versions is an entirely different matter though. The Silver Surfer has completely control over matter, so he turns Superman into an apple and wins.
Has the Silver Surfer ever used such a tactic against an enemy in the comics?

Better yet, why didn't he do it against Black Panther when the black badass used the kung fun grip on his shiny silery whitey butt?

une · Post by **une** » 2007-10-07 11:47am

Sidewinder wrote:
une wrote:A battle between the comic versions is an entirely different matter though. The Silver Surfer has completely control over matter, so he turns Superman into an apple and wins.
Has the Silver Surfer ever used such a tactic against an enemy in the comics?

I can't remember him ever turning anyone into an apple, but has used his matter altering powers quite frequently in the comics. He's turned tons of rock in vapor, turned food into pure energy, repaired destroyed machinery, etc. I think the most impressive time was when he used his matter control powers to eliminate a disease that was plaquing the galaxy. There is a scan of it online, it can be found here

Better yet, why didn't he do it against Black Panther when the black badass used the kung fun grip on his shiny silery whitey butt?

He probably didn't want to hurt the Black Panther. Besides, it's not like he had any trouble breaking out of that hold anyway, from what I remember he casually breaks out of that hold pretty quickly.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-10-07 11:54am

une wrote:
Sidewinder wrote:
une wrote:A battle between the comic versions is an entirely different matter though. The Silver Surfer has completely control over matter, so he turns Superman into an apple and wins.
Has the Silver Surfer ever used such a tactic against an enemy in the comics?
I can't remember him ever turning anyone into an apple, but has used his matter altering powers quite frequently in the comics. He's turned tons of rock in vapor, turned food into pure energy, repaired destroyed machinery, etc. I think the most impressive time was when he used his matter control powers to eliminate a disease that was plaquing the galaxy. There is a scan of it online, it can be found here

Which brings us back to the multitude of events that he didn't do this, and only does it when the story is allowing him to do so. So really saying he'll automatically do this to Superman is the same bullshit leap of logic, that Superman will go for sun bursting punch and kill surfer for the win!!!

Better yet, why didn't he do it against Black Panther when the black badass used the kung fun grip on his shiny silery whitey butt?
He probably didn't want to hurt the Black Panther. Besides, it's not like he had any trouble breaking out of that hold anyway, from what I remember he casually breaks out of that hold pretty quickly.

Which all comes back to a staggeringly low level incident of piss poor power.

This would be Lex kung fu gripping Superman.

All this brings us back in your assumption of "Surfer will turn Superman into Appl3!!!". Amazing that anytime Surfer encounters a threat of any level that can do him considerable harm....he doesn't just fall back onto this option.