Harry Dresden Goes to Sunnydale

[Chevron_Seven]

A magical being specializing in mind control has arrived in Sunnydale and has gained control over the Scooby Gang. Their abilities are fully intact but they are under the control of that being. The White Council dispatches Warden Harry Dresden to deal with the situation and assume that White Council is giving him total protection from the creature impacting him. Also assume that the White Council has authorized Dresden to violate the 1st Law of Magic if he has to when it comes down to stopping the Scooby Gang. The creature controlling them is actually very easy to kill but he can't get to it without going through the Scooby Gang first.

Harry arrives in town with his apprentice Molly Carpenter, Bob, and Mouse. He has also brought his usual range of magical supplies including his summoning circle and Fidelacchius having set himself up in a small apartment. If Harry needs additional help he can call on his usual allies. If he can defeat the Scooby Gang then he also has to then stay and attempt to clean up Sunnydale from other supernatural influences.

Assume this is at the end of "White Knight" for Dresden and since we don't know from canon sources yet assume that Lash has left him with the ability to enhance his magic with Hellfire. Assume this is mid Season 5 for Buff.

How well does Harry do?

[Majin Gojira]

The entire scenario to force a confrontation is inherently flawed. Take out the controller, solve the problem. He doesn't really 'have' to take out the scoobies to get through.

That and the Timeline is all wonky.

There are far better methods for getting the scoobies to clash with Harry:

Various members have violated their laws: #2 (Amy, mostly), #3 (Willow on multiple occasions in Season 5 (if one counts telepathy as "Mind Magic"), 6 and 7), #4 (Willow, while Evil in Season 6), #6 (Tara, Willow, Anya and Xander in Season 6), #7 (Johnathan, okay, he's not a scooby, but he still employed a temporal loop in Season 6).

All better reasons for Harry to be sent after them.

Of course, considering how close they are to an Outer Gate that gets opened by demonic forces on a regular basis, it would not be a straight up 'crush, kill, destroy', and if it were, they wouldn't send Harry to do it.

Harry is up against 2 Witches (one of budding extreme power), 1 Slayer, 1 Watcher, an Ex-Demon, a Carpenter, a Vampire who cannot hurt humans and the Key.

That Key (Dawn) essentially ensures that if he does kill everyone in the scoobies (Dawn included), Glory tears out his spine afterwards.

Piling Giles research, he and Anya's contacts, Xander's distractability, Willow and Tara's combined power, Spike guile, and Buffy's strength, I don't think the original lineup will work well against them.

And Harry would know this. Because he's not an idiot.

[Ender]

Firstly, a more realiztic scenario would be that the Scoobies are going after Susan and Thomas, and Harry has to stop the gang and rescue them. That lets him remain in character with his whole "don't violate the laws of magic, kill but be squemish about it" thing. Which would make this go oh so much better for the Scoobies.

Of course, considering how close they are to an Outer Gate that gets opened by demonic forces on a regular basis, it would not be a straight up 'crush, kill, destroy', and if it were, they wouldn't send Harry to do it.

No, they would not. Do NOT fuck with the Outer Gates is one of the major laws, one so important that they have a member on the high council dedicated to keeping it shut who is allowed to violate the 7th law to do his job. They wouldn't send Harry to do this. This would be akin to when they went after Kemmler. They would send the White Council - every last wizard there is, from the Merlin to the newest initiate - in to tear the place down brick by brick. And the Wardens and High Council alone are supossed to be on par with a god.

Harry is up against 2 Witches (one of budding extreme power), 1 Slayer, 1 Watcher, an Ex-Demon, a Carpenter, a Vampire who cannot hurt humans and the Key.

That Key (Dawn) essentially ensures that if he does kill everyone in the scoobies (Dawn included), Glory tears out his spine afterwards.

Piling Giles research, he and Anya's contacts, Xander's distractability, Willow and Tara's combined power, Spike guile, and Buffy's strength, I don't think the original lineup will work well against them.

Oh hey, look at that, proclamations of how great they are without quantification from a buffy fan. Why am I not suprised at all.

And Harry would know this. Because he's not an idiot.

Harry is not an idiot, Harry is extremely powerful, and Buffy fans overwank their own universe harder then rabid trekkies do.

Seriously people - Dresdenverse setups are hard to do because the levels are so high that few can match it.

For Harry, an opening move is to sneak up and locally increase gravity by about two orders of magnitude and crush the target to a bloody pulp. (Then poor the garlic shaker from the mall food court pizza stand on it for good measure) Or drop an SUV on them. Or reanimate a fossil and have it attack. Or call in heavily armed mercenaries to wipe them out. Or distract them while another warden stabs them in the back and shoots them execution style. He is in the top 40 wizards in terms of power, and White Knight reveals that his finesse has greatly improved since he started training Molly which means he can put much more of that to work instead of just slopping it all around.

This is a guy who vaporized damn near an entire city dumpster when he lost his temper. He Who Walks Behind is a duke of the demons of the Outer Gates, yet Harry wiped the floor with him at age 16. The one time we saw him absolutely cut loose he had been drained of the majority of his power - yet he released a fireball suficient to completely wipe out all the human remains in the area. To vaporize a corpse with only IR radiation that is shielded by a bunch of concrete in the basement and wipe out an entire gold coast mansion means you need to start talking in kilotons.

On top of that, this is a guy who has the Winter court of faries tripping over itself to make him thier mortal champion, can make a demand of the Queen of the Summer court (who has god-level powers) and has the knowledge in his head (and skull) to ascend to godhood himself.

He has them beat in the information network as well - Giles has access to a couple hundred years worth of occult data. Impressive - but Bob has a couple of millenia. he can also ask that Ghosttalker guy to find out what the deceased know. Plus the White Council can solicit the Archive, which means Harry has access to all the information that Giles would have as well. And that's just bookwork. Field work investigations are een worse. Aside from being a skilled PI with police contacts, Harry can ask the faries for help, or use all his tracking spells. The questioning is even worse - when he gets his Irish up Harry's interrogation technique is to blast a hole in a fire ant colony, bury you in it, and drink juice and ask questions. (Seriously, that chapter was just sick on many levels)

When it comes to killing each other in Dresdenverse, they do not fuck around. Assault rifles, grenades, mines, flamethrowers, nerve gas, volcanic eruptions, orbital bombardment - all are valid tactics that are routinely used. The guy is familiar with all of this and has a reputation sufficient to make the wetworks guy of a Vampire court try to negotiate rather then face him down. And this is California, so he can call in Carlos, all of Ramirez's subordinates, and every teacher warden, and the Veniti Underground ("Think the Masons but with more flamethrowers"). Plus the Knight's of the Cross have a funny tendancy to show up when demons are involved. And McCoy can drop something from orbit on them if Harry is really threatened. Finally, even if they kill him, he can kill them with his death curse.

He doesn't have to be the one to fight them either - if we are assuming that he has cast loose his morals and has assumed the role of Blackstaff for some reason. He can just set fetchs on them - an exponentially increasing number of farie killers are gonna take them out eventually no matter how hard you wank. Or send some prehistoric ghouls after them ("I thought we killed it! "Yeah, then it pieced itself back together and kept coming")

That said, 2 witches far beneath him in skill and training, 3 people he can pulp with a single punch each (at full power his ring can flip a car - he can't use it against people because it is a garunteed violation of the first law), a vampire with more weaknesses then the Red Court that can't hurt him, and the Ex-demon that he has innate power over are not a major threat. In fact, about the only way they are a threat is if he has to engage them as a group, instead of whittling down their numbers.

Shit, if nothing else, he can just keep opening portals from the nevernever, drag one of them in, and leave them there. Threat neutralized, no laws broken.

Buffyverse isn't as low on the totem pole as Potterverse is. But it is damn close. This is worse then when someone decided to pit the Scoobies against a Greater Vampire from the Watchverse. These people are outclassed boys and girls. Giles research is going to come back with the reccomendation of "run, don't slow down, don't look back, and hope that you are faster then the guy next to you".

[Majin Gojira]

Firstly, a more realiztic scenario would be that the Scoobies are going after Susan and Thomas, and Harry has to stop the gang and rescue them. That lets him remain in character with his whole "don't violate the laws of magic, kill but be squemish about it" thing. Which would make this go oh so much better for the Scoobies.

Considering that Buffy and co deal with (ecologically equivalent) Black Court vampires, probably not. Finding multiple species of Vampire would not preclude auto-slay.

Of course, as a gag it could be played as "I've told you about them for years, you just never listen" by Giles.

Oh hey, look at that, proclamations of how great they are without quantification from a buffy fan. Why am I not suprised at all.

My appologies, I was working from limited information garned from online previews and the TV series.

That and the amount of hoops the scenario has the jump through just threw me off, so I jumped to the conlcusion ahead of time.

Harry is not an idiot, Harry is extremely powerful, and Buffy fans overwank their own universe harder then rabid trekkies do.

Damn, that bad, eh?

For Harry, an opening move is to sneak up and locally increase gravity by about two orders of magnitude and crush the target to a bloody pulp. (Then poor the garlic shaker from the mall food court pizza stand on it for good measure) Or drop an SUV on them. Or reanimate a fossil and have it attack. Or call in heavily armed mercenaries to wipe them out. Or distract them while another warden stabs them in the back and shoots them execution style. He is in the top 40 wizards in terms of power, and White Knight reveals that his finesse has greatly improved since he started training Molly which means he can put much more of that to work instead of just slopping it all around.

Those are damn impressive feats (the magical ones at least). But, if I may, ask where these occur.

Mostly because I'm about to start reading the series myself and some of those just sound nifty.

But doesn't the re-animation of fossils count as an act of necromancy, violating the laws (and please tell me which book that happens in, because that's just to much fun)?

This is a guy who vaporized damn near an entire city dumpster when he lost his temper. He Who Walks Behind is a duke of the demons of the Outer Gates, yet Harry wiped the floor with him at age 16. The one time we saw him absolutely cut loose he had been drained of the majority of his power - yet he released a fireball suficient to completely wipe out all the human remains in the area. To vaporize a corpse with only IR radiation that is shielded by a bunch of concrete in the basement and wipe out an entire gold coast mansion means you need to start talking in kilotons.

Question: How long did it take to gather that power?

On top of that, this is a guy who has the Winter court of faries tripping over itself to make him thier mortal champion, can make a demand of the Queen of the Summer court (who has god-level powers) and has the knowledge in his head (and skull) to ascend to godhood himself.

The Fallen in his head, yes. Isn't he extremely reluctant to use that power because of the possibility of being hollowed out and used as a meat puppet by that entity?

He has them beat in the information network as well - Giles has access to a couple hundred years worth of occult data. Impressive - but Bob has a couple of millenia.

According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know), Bob's data goes back 600 years. Anya herself spend 1,000 years as a demon. One of Giles' book (the one that held Moloch) is over 600 years old ("I Robot, You Jane" dated to 1418). Here I'd say they're about equal.

Of course, that Magic Fireball of OMG puts Harry far above the stuff Willow pulled off in Season 7 even (though she is capable of creating a localized heat source capable of incinerating a demon in seconds, the sheer area involved gives it to Harry).

The entire Season 7 encarnation of the gang would have trouble with Harry, with their only general hope being to get close to him and either exploit his mortality (hacky/sashy) or for Willow to steal his energy.

[H]e can also ask that Ghosttalker guy to find out what the deceased know. Plus the White Council can solicit the Archive, which means Harry has access to all the information that Giles would have as well. And that's just bookwork. Field work investigations are e[v]en worse. Aside from being a skilled PI with police contacts, Harry can ask the faries for help, or use all his tracking spells.

PI skill does indeed trump them, though they do have tracking spells as well as vampiric tracking (they're usualyl good only related to blood).

The questioning is even worse - when he gets his Irish up Harry's interrogation technique is to blast a hole in a fire ant colony, bury you in it, and drink juice and ask questions. (Seriously, that chapter was just sick on many levels)

Damn! That's gives Angel a run for this torture crown. Which book is it in?

When it comes to killing each other in Dresdenverse, they do not fuck around. Assault rifles, grenades, mines, flamethrowers, nerve gas, volcanic eruptions, orbital bombardment - all are valid tactics that are routinely used.

Can you elaborate on the last one?

That said, 2 witches far beneath him in skill and training,

Question: What does it take for casting in the Dresden-verse beyond simple focus (if anything)?

3 people he can pulp with a single punch each (at full power his ring can flip a car - he can't use it against people because it is a garunteed violation of the first law),

I assume that means it is a magical augmentation, correct? Does the effect only affect his one arm or both?

a vampire with more weaknesses then the Red Court that can't hurt him, and the Ex-demon that he has innate power over are not a major threat. In fact, about the only way they are a threat is if he has to engage them as a group, instead of whittling down their numbers.

Elaborate over the "Inante power over" aspect.

But from what you describe, I was indeed mistaken in my assessment.

[darthbob88]

But doesn't the re-animation of fossils count as an act of necromancy, violating the laws (and please tell me which book that happens in, because that's just to much fun)?

Technically, it's not a violation, since the laws only apply to wizards and other humans. Besides which, he had to do it in order to actually live long enough to stop the bad guys. I haven't read it in a while, but I recall that in Dead Beat, the seventh book, he brings back a Tyrannosaurus rex, Sue, actually.

Can you elaborate on the last one?

IIRC, at one point the White Council's "wet work man" pulls an old Soviet communication satellite out of orbit and right into the lap of the enemy commander and warchief.

[white_rabbit]

The Fallen in his head, yes. Isn't he extremely reluctant to use that power because of the possibility of being hollowed out and used as a meat puppet by that entity?

I think he's talking about the Darkhallow, which was the ritual to become a god, the Fallen Angel also enhanced his powers simply by being present.

IIRC, at one point the White Council's "wet work man" pulls an old Soviet communication satellite out of orbit and right into the lap of the enemy commander and warchief.

The same chap is also responsible for Tunguska, which was iirc, a multi-megaton event.

I assume that means it is a magical augmentation, correct? Does the effect only affect his one arm or both?

Its a single ring on one arm, he later upgrades to multiple rings twisted together to form a larger ring, and then has them on multiple fingers of each hand.

[Gaidin]

Its a single ring on one arm, he later upgrades to multiple rings twisted together to form a larger ring, and then has them on multiple fingers of each hand.

Which also gather energy for use from casual hand movement. It's hard to find a moment where he can't casually knock someone back 30 feet.

[Ender]

Considering that Buffy and co deal with (ecologically equivalent) Black Court vampires, probably not. Finding multiple species of Vampire would not preclude auto-slay.

Of course, as a gag it could be played as "I've told you about them for years, you just never listen" by Giles.

Buffy-verse vamps are more the cross between Red and Black courts, with physical levels similar to white court or lower. But yeah.

Those are damn impressive feats (the magical ones at least). But, if I may, ask where these occur.

Mostly because I'm about to start reading the series myself and some of those just sound nifty.

Well damn, now I feel like a heel - those are some of the best parts of the series.

The gravity trick is in the short story that appeared in Many Bloody Returns, when Harry deals with a LARP party gone bad.

The SUV, fossil trick, and warden execution are all in Dead Beat, which is IMO the best book so far (though I have high hopes for Small Favors based off the cover.)

The mercenary thing he has done a couple of times, enlisting Marcone's aid several times and hiring the hellhound to take out a black court nest.

But doesn't the re-animation of fossils count as an act of necromancy, violating the laws (and please tell me which book that happens in, because that's just to much fun)?

Deat Beat. See, humans are used as zombies because the strength of a zombie is based off how big it is and how old it is. Humans are the largest corpses aaround and are common to find and can be very old. Harry re-animates Sue, the T-Rex to take on a zombie army, sidestepping the law (but Morgan still nearly kills him)

I got that unspoiled and shouted for joy. I'm sorry you will miss that now.

Question: How long did it take to gather that power?

No measurable time. He was fighting a bunch of Red court vamps and getting more and more pissed and then he just lost it and went nuclear.

The Fallen in his head, yes. Isn't he extremely reluctant to use that power because of the possibility of being hollowed out and used as a meat puppet by that entity?

When she left she appears to have left her knowledge behind, including the Darkhallow ritual.

According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know), Bob's data goes back 600 years. Anya herself spend 1,000 years as a demon. One of Giles' book (the one that held Moloch) is over 600 years old ("I Robot, You Jane" dated to 1418). Here I'd say they're about equal.

600 years is TV show IIRC. Millenia is books.

Damn! That's gives Angel a run for this torture crown. Which book is it in?

White Knight. Ghouls attack a training camp and kidnap a couple of kids. Harry gets pissed to the point of scaring the other wardens.

Can you elaborate on the last one?

The Blackstaff is responsible for a couple of asteroid strikes.

Question: What does it take for casting in the Dresden-verse beyond simple focus (if anything)?

Varies with the skill of the wizard. Molly needs an entire kit and a long time to do simple spells. Harry can do things with only his staff and rod very swiftly. The Merlin can do wards strong enough to hold off armies unaided very quickly.

I assume that means it is a magical augmentation, correct? Does the effect only affect his one arm or both?

He uses his kinetic ring.

Elaborate over the "Inante power over" aspect.

demons (small d) are just nasty faries. Think Imps and such. Demons (capital D) are beings from beyond the Outer Gates. Think fallen angels. Assuming that the latter type is the case, White Knight reveals that Harry was born with innate power over them - very critical since most magic cannot touch them. This is why his mother was originally going to hand him over to the Black Council before she ran for it, and why the Black Council wants to recruit him so badly - he can really fuck up or aid their plans.

But from what you describe, I was indeed mistaken in my assessment.

Dresdenverse is in an interesting position - it's intelligent modern setting means it can mop the floor with universes that are more magically powerful but sword and sorcery based, but the exceptionally high power levels in it place it far beyond most modern setting stuff. It is kinda like the Culture in that way - stupidly powerful, but written in a way that makes it not wank.

[Chevron_Seven]

Majin Gojira: The entire scenario to force a confrontation is inherently flawed. Take out the controller, solve the problem. He doesn't really 'have' to take out the scoobies to get through.

As I said the Scoobies essentially have to be neutralized before Harry can get to the creature and destroy it. He doesn't have to kill them just putting them out of action is an option though killing them might be easier to do.

Majin Gojira: That and the Timeline is all wonky.

How?

Majin Gojira: Of course, considering how close they are to an Outer Gate that gets opened by demonic forces on a regular basis, it would not be a straight up 'crush, kill, destroy', and if it were, they wouldn't send Harry to do it.

Actually Harry at the end of his confrontation with the Merlin over Molly assumes that the Merlin will be demanding he goes on more missions as a warden with the hope that something manages to knock him off.

Majin Gojira: Harry is up against 2 Witches (one of budding extreme power), 1 Slayer, 1 Watcher, an Ex-Demon, a Carpenter, a Vampire who cannot hurt humans and the Key.

Which really isn't that much of a numbers advantage for a guy who regularly goes into fighters out numbered or out gunned. Plus Harry has his own allies. Molly Carpenter is coming into her powers and can manage excellent veils. Mouse has demonstrated amazing intelligence, fighting ability, and supernatural powers on several occasions. Plus he has his usual bag of allies to call on from the Alphas (gang of werewolves), Carlos (a Fellow Warden), Thomas (Half Brother who is a Vampire), Michael Carpenter (a Knight of the Cross), and Blackstaff McCoy.

Majin Gojira: That Key (Dawn) essentially ensures that if he does kill everyone in the scoobies (Dawn included), Glory tears out his spine afterwards.

I have my doubts how eager Glory would be to fight Harry much less if she'd be ripping his spine out. Harry already has laid a world of hurt on one of the Fairy Queens killing her and the Fairy queens have power equal to one of the old gods. Plus Glory has a vulnerability to enchanted weapons and Olaf's Hammer laid a world of hurt on her. Olaf as a troll god is probably about equal to one of the Old Gods in Dresden so not as powerful as the "White God" or Christian God who created the three swords with the a nail from the crucifix in the hilt of each sword. Plus the three swords of the Knights of the Cross are especially useful against outsiders or demons. Any of the swords of the Knights of the Cross would be able to leave a world of hurt on Glory. Harry has Fidelacchius (Faith) in his possession and Michael of course has Amoracchius (Love) which might actually be Excalibur.

Majin Gojira: Question: How long did it take to gather that power?

Well vaporizng the dumpster he just did because he was angry. That was more of a case of instantly hurting a fireball at the dumpster and slagging it. So that took hardly anytime at all about the time to say "fuego". In the case of trashing the Red Court Inauguration of Bianca as a noble that took a bit longer for Harry to gather up his energy for several reasons. The first being that a overpowered specter had taken a good munch out of Harry's soul leaving him with a mere shadow of his former power. So he was under strength. He has already been involved in combat with several Red Court Vampires and he didn't have his blasting rod to focus his magic. He had only his sword cane which is focused toward earth magic rather than wind like the staff or fire like the blasting rod. Plus that was more of a angry moment for Harry so he had the anger building in him which fueled the magic. In terms of an actual release of it I think it was like a three word phrase or something like that.

Majin Gojira: The entire Season 7 encarnation of the gang would have trouble with Harry, with their only general hope being to get close to him and either exploit his mortality (hacky/sashy) or for Willow to steal his energy.

Ghouls have tried that before it isn't advisable. Harry at first wore a single silver ring on his finger that stored a little kinetic energy in it each time he moves his arm. It stored enough energy in it to kill a human if he unleashed it and could potentially tip a vehicle. By the time of White Knight he has upgunned to wearing bands of three rings on four of his fingers with each ring having the juice of the original ring. He can either release them separately or in one powerful punch.

Majin Gojira: Damn! That's gives Angel a run for this torture crown. Which book is it in? Damn! That's gives Angel a run for this torture crown. Which book is it in?

The fire ant torture thing was White Night the last book of the series.

darthbob88: IIRC, at one point the White Council's "wet work man" pulls an old Soviet communication satellite out of orbit and right into the lap of the enemy commander and warchief.

For a little more detail: Harry's old mentor is the Blackstaff who is given Council approval to violate all the laws of magic if he needs to. Ebenezar McCoy who is Harry's mentor and former guardian is the current Blackstaff. A Red Court Vampire War Leader by the name of Don Paolo Ortega was gunning for Harry. So McCoy's solution was to pull a old Soviet Communications satellite out of orbit and drop it on Ortega's villa. It ends up leveling all the trees within a 1/2 mile of the former mansion and this is lowball for some of the damage that McCoy has done.

darthbob88: I haven't read it in a while, but I recall that in Dead Beat, the seventh book, he brings back a Tyrannosaurus rex, Sue, actually.

Then he proceeds to put a saddle on it and rides it through the streets of Chicago.

[Majin Gojira]

Well damn, now I feel like a heel - those are some of the best parts of the series.

No worries, Ender, I'm immune to Spoilers.

The gravity trick is in the short story that appeared in Many Bloody Returns, when Harry deals with a LARP party gone bad.

Don't all?

The SUV, fossil trick, and warden execution are all in Dead Beat, which is IMO the best book so far (though I have high hopes for Small Favors based off the cover.)

I was considering starting with the latest one "White Knight", if only based on the online exerpt. But I can't resist the Fossil Trick.

Deat Beat. See, humans are used as zombies because the strength of a zombie is based off how big it is and how old it is. Humans are the largest corpses aaround and are common to find and can be very old. Harry re-animates Sue, the T-Rex to take on a zombie army, sidestepping the law (but Morgan still nearly kills him)

I got that unspoiled and shouted for joy. I'm sorry you will miss that now.

For me, it doesn't matter what happens, just how it's done.

Man, Sue's bones just won't rest in peice, will they?

No measurable time. He was fighting a bunch of Red court vamps and getting more and more pissed and then he just lost it and went nuclear.

Wow.

600 years is TV show IIRC. Millenia is books.

DAMN YOU, WIKIPEDIA!

Varies with the skill of the wizard. Molly needs an entire kit and a long time to do simple spells. Harry can do things with only his staff and rod very swiftly. The Merlin can do wards strong enough to hold off armies unaided very quickly.

So it is augmented by the skill of the practitioner.

Interesting.

demons (small d) are just nasty faries. Think Imps and such. Demons (capital D) are beings from beyond the Outer Gates. Think fallen angels. Assuming that the latter type is the case, White Knight reveals that Harry was born with innate power over them - very critical since most magic cannot touch them. This is why his mother was originally going to hand him over to the Black Council before she ran for it, and why the Black Council wants to recruit him so badly - he can really fuck up or aid their plans.

Dresdenverse is in an interesting position - it's intelligent modern setting means it can mop the floor with universes that are more magically powerful but sword and sorcery based, but the exceptionally high power levels in it place it far beyond most modern setting stuff. It is kinda like the Culture in that way - stupidly powerful, but written in a way that makes it not wank.

I'm with you on the writing.

I think I may contact you in regards the details of the Dresden-verse for a RPG writeup(s) I've been toying with.

Because I hate doing writeups when I don't have all the information.

As I said the Scoobies essentially have to be neutralized before Harry can get to the creature and destroy it. He doesn't have to kill them just putting them out of action is an option though killing them might be easier to do.

Not addressing the point, really.

How?

White Knight: Published 2007 Set in 2007(?)
Buffy Season 5: Set in 2000-2001. Dead Center of the season (Episode 11) aired in January of 2001.

Discrepency?

Plus Glory has a vulnerability to enchanted weapons and Olaf's Hammer laid a world of hurt on her.

The fact that it is enchanted is besides the point, it is just that much raw power--less than the wrecking ball.

Ghouls have tried that before it isn't advisable. Harry at first wore a single silver ring on his finger that stored a little kinetic energy in it each time he moves his arm. <snip>

Of course, Willow's drainage is extraordinarily painful (and can be lethal if done for to long), it becomes questionable that he'd get to use it.

Of course, she'd have to get close enough to do that.

But in the end, I'm giving this to Harry.

[dragon]

Also Harry has his nice flame thrower technique. While the head warden in Dead Beat is able to cast her fire in a thin stream almost like a scalpel, Harry on the other hand uses an a wide blast.

I know in White Knight harry uses one charge on the ring to fling a ghoul hard enough that when it hit a neighboring boat it did some serious damage.

His original shield was strong against physical attacks like bullets but weak against fire but he since upgraded and his shield is effective against a wide variety of stuff now.

The magic in Dresden verse depends on the casters strength, raw talent and skill. So while Harry had the strength and raw talent when he beat the demon when he was 16 he since has picked up a lot of skill.

[Ford Prefect]

The same chap is also responsible for Tunguska, which was iirc, a multi-megaton event.

Twenty megatons, off the top of my head? Also, didn't the Blackstaff do Krakatowa as well (which is considerably more impressive). I've heard that, but it seems to be pretty much every book series involving magic in the modern day causes Tunguska/Krakatowa to be the fault of some magic user.

[Jason]

The same chap is also responsible for Tunguska, which was iirc, a multi-megaton event.

Twenty megatons, off the top of my head? Also, didn't the Blackstaff do Krakatowa as well (which is considerably more impressive). I've heard that, but it seems to be pretty much every book series involving magic in the modern day causes Tunguska/Krakatowa to be the fault of some magic user.

Maybe this needs to go in the "Magic cliches to avoid thread" as well as this one?

[Ford Prefect]

Maybe this needs to go in the "Magic cliches to avoid thread" as well as this one?

I know how writers feel. It seems like such a good idea at the time, and then you discover everybody is doing it.

[Skelron]

[Deat Beat. See, humans are used as zombies because the strength of a zombie is based off how big it is and how old it is. Humans are the largest corpses aaround and are common to find and can be very old. Harry re-animates Sue, the T-Rex to take on a zombie army, sidestepping the law (but Morgan still nearly kills him)

While a Very impressive feat, say it with me, special circumstance. The people he was pursuing had been weakening the barrier between th real worl and where ever the power to fuel necromantic magic is drawn from, for quite sometime. In order to set up their master plot of god gaining power, this was a two way street and allowed Harry to tap into the same situation.

That and the date, being Halloween, all souls etc, meant such Magics where naturally at their height, we have no evidence that on a normal day Harry could raise a T-Rex Zombie, or has the power to do so off his own bat.

Although this incidence does provide a great example of how Harry is able to think on his feet and use situations to his advantage, and his rule lawyering.

[Skelron]

[So it is augmented by the skill of the practitioner.

Interesting.

Indeed, Dresdenverse magic dosn't theoretically need many extra pieces, you can simply decide you want an effect to happen, except doing so will kill you. Since the power needed is so vast, the various trappings, like staffs, and verbal componments are used to insulate the caster from the spell.

In truth a lot of the insulating events are meaningless, well sortof, it has to mean what you want it to, to you, but you could simply shout nonsense words, as long as to you the nonsense words mean something. (EG the same word is used for Fireball everytime you cast it, that word could be chicken-eggs if you really wanted it to be, as long as everytime you shouted Chicken-eggs.)

Latin is used a lot, because Masters teach their apprentices the Latin, and it becomes ingrained in the subconcious, and doubt is a really bad thing for a Wizard when casting a spell, it can prevent the spell from occuring.

Ther are exceptions to this, such as summoning circles.

[His Divine Shadow]

This thread made me interested in harry dresden, I've read three books now so far. He's kinda hardcore but hmm, does seem like someone with a pump could get lucky and take him out. Maybe he gets more über?

[Gaidin]

He's kinda hardcore but hmm, does seem like someone with a pump could get lucky and take him out. Maybe he gets more über?

He gets better yes, but he's still just as human.

Wizards in that series have a tendency to be glass cannons. Not blatantly so in plot lines, but the idea is there. They're smart enough to knwo when not to fight and avoid the situation. If they're prepped and ready stay out of their way, but once they're out of energy, they can die just as fast as any normal human in a fight.

[Skelron]

He's kinda hardcore but hmm, does seem like someone with a pump could get lucky and take him out. Maybe he gets more über?

He gets better yes, but he's still just as human.

Wizards in that series have a tendency to be glass cannons. Not blatantly so in plot lines, but the idea is there. They're smart enough to knwo when not to fight and avoid the situation. If they're prepped and ready stay out of their way, but once they're out of energy, they can die just as fast as any normal human in a fight.

Indeed kincaid even points out that with a high powered sniper rifle he can remove a wizards best defense. The Death Curse, since he can kill a wizard without the guy ever even knowing they where in danger, yet alone dying.

[His Divine Shadow]

I am going to use this thread to post some Dresden related thoughts I've been mulling over:

Faerie weakness against iron raises the question, why haven't Thomas bought shotshells with steel pellets instead of the standard lead ones? You got an instant fairy doomsday weapon.

And for the really heavy hitters, shotgun slugs with an iron core. A 12ga is equivalent to a 72 caliber firearm you know. I wonder if even a summer/winter knight would stand up to a few blasts of iron pellet buckshot, nevermind a steel core slug.

------------

And this thing about technology and magic being incompatible, I wonder if it's only a a psycho-somatic reaction given how semi-automatic pistols jam when mechanically they are infact less complex than the workings of a revolver, all those springs and carefull timing you know, it's not simple...

Supporting this idea is how murphys old 1911 worked yet modern ones have problems, but 99.5% of all semi-automatic pistols have copied this pistols design really closely. So a modern semi should work just as well if not better. I have a old basic 1911 model and a modern Jericho 941, the Jericho have less parts than the 1911. The more modern design is the simpler in other words. Though in the dresden-verse we are given the impression this should be more failure prone than an old 1911.

Now the explanation when ignoring suspension of disbelief is merely that the author wasn't aware of the technical issues. In universe it might just be that Harry has always thought that magic should interfere with modern technology. It might just be that it's a widespread belief among wizards and we know how magic works, you have to believe it for it to work and Harry and every other wizard believes that magic interferes with modern technology. So it does so. While vampires and other magical practioners don't have any of these issues, neither fairies nor vampires which are very magical have any problems with technology, though they are certainly magical to some extent as well.

Thats my theory as to why seemingly old technology works better even though it's really as complex or even less reliable than many modern equivalents.

In other words, Harry needs a shrink.

[Ender]

And this thing about technology and magic being incompatible, I wonder if it's only a a psycho-somatic reaction given how semi-automatic pistols jam when mechanically they are infact less complex than the workings of a revolver, all those springs and carefull timing you know, it's not simple...

Supporting this idea is how murphys old 1911 worked yet modern ones have problems, but 99.5% of all semi-automatic pistols have copied this pistols design really closely. So a modern semi should work just as well if not better. I have a old basic 1911 model and a modern Jericho 941, the Jericho have less parts than the 1911. The more modern design is the simpler in other words. Though in the dresden-verse we are given the impression this should be more failure prone than an old 1911.

Now the explanation when ignoring suspension of disbelief is merely that the author wasn't aware of the technical issues. In universe it might just be that Harry has always thought that magic should interfere with modern technology. It might just be that it's a widespread belief among wizards and we know how magic works, you have to believe it for it to work and Harry and every other wizard believes that magic interferes with modern technology. So it does so. While vampires and other magical practioners don't have any of these issues, neither fairies nor vampires which are very magical have any problems with technology, though they are certainly magical to some extent as well.

Thats my theory as to why seemingly old technology works better even though it's really as complex or even less reliable than many modern equivalents.

In other words, Harry needs a shrink.

I'm struggling to recall when that happened. The wizards and tech thing always seemed to be more of an EMP/energy fields not mixing well thing that killed anything electronic.

[His Divine Shadow]

Recall what particular part? Murphy's 1911? That was in Fool Moon I think and she said she chose it was because it was "old reliable" and not modern technology so it wouldn't jam.

In Storm Front one of the beckitts tried to shoot harry towards the end with a semi-automatic and it jammed after the first shot and Harry noted he was lucky the gun didn't explode in his hand. Then they switched to revolvers and they worked fine.

[Chevron_Seven]

Faerie weakness against iron raises the question, why haven't Thomas bought shotshells with steel pellets instead of the standard lead ones? You got an instant fairy doomsday weapon.

Remember that Harry told Murphy that there are parts of the Nevernever where gun powder won't even ignite so guns aren't reliable in their world. I suspect he hasn't thought it for our war because Harry has rarely if ever had to face the prospect of fighting Winter or Summer in our world.

HDS: And for the really heavy hitters, shotgun slugs with an iron core. A 12ga is equivalent to a 72 caliber firearm you know. I wonder if even a summer/winter knight would stand up to a few blasts of iron pellet buckshot, nevermind a steel core slug.

Summer and Winter Knights are both mortals rather than fairies so they are going to be just as vulnerable to lead as steel. Assuming you can get the round to hit them and they can't toss up a shield like a wizard.