Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)

[Crazedwraith]

Random theory - it might be an interesting twist/departure from the books for Rob's wife to be an agent of the Lanisters. The letter thing kinda tips it off.
(The producers did say that the third season would make some big changes compared to the books ).

It's pretty heavily hinted in the books that she was a Lannister agent, albeit an unwitting one. Remember, her parents were Lannister bannermen.
Spoiler

And if memory serves it was mentioned in Dance that her mother forced an abortion on her?

[spoiler="Feast For Crows]Umm.. It's pretty explicitly stated in Feast For Crows when the mother is talking to Jaime about their promised rewards for doing it and asking for the return of their people who were at the twins during the Red Wedding (who were dead and weren't in on the Lannister plot)

There was no abortion, but the mother was feeding Jeyne a herbal tea to stop her conceiving, telling her it would help her conceive. As Death mentioned in his post.[/spoiler]

Edit2: Though It would pretty hard for Tywin to actually plan for it ahead of time. I wonder if all his bannermen with pretty daughters were sent instructions for the eventuality.

[Ralin]

Ah. Well, must have remembered wrong.

I'm actually going through Feast now on audiobook, but I haven't gotten to that part yet.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Random theory - it might be an interesting twist/departure from the books for Rob's wife to be an agent of the Lanisters. The letter thing kinda tips it off.
(The producers did say that the third season would make some big changes compared to the books ).

It's pretty heavily hinted in the books that she was a Lannister agent, albeit an unwitting one. Remember, her parents were Lannister bannermen.
Spoiler

And if memory serves it was mentioned in Dance that her mother forced an abortion on her?

In the books she was an unwitting dupe, and her mother orchestrated the whole thing under Tywin's orders.
The mother didn't force an abortion, what she did do was give her a "herbal remedy for fertility" that secretly kept her from getting pregnant .(Remember, at the time Rob was doing his best to impregante her, since Tyrion had already married Sansa, and Bran and Rickon were considered dead with surety. His death without an heir would lead to Tyrion Lannister's children inheriting Winterfell).

I recall the book version as being a totally unwitting dupe (reinforced by her behavior after Rob's death in Ä Feast for the Crows").
Hence, my saying that it would be a nice twist for her to be a conscious Lannister agent. It would make the whole Spoiler

Betrayal

even more poignant, even without knowing who most of the Stark Bannermen at the red wedding are (unlike in the book).


EDIT: Damn thee slow connection!

Though It would pretty hard for Tywin to actually plan for it ahead of time. I wonder if all his bannermen with pretty daughters were sent instructions for the eventuality.

More likely that the mother got a Raven out after Robb took the castle or spotted the opportunity herself.
Robb was no Robert - as far as we know it's possible he hadn't even bedded anyone before that - and the reason he "fell" for it was the double whammy of finding out there and then about his brothers being killed, by one of his best friends, because of his fuck up. (While smashed on milk of the poppy and wounded).

[Thanas]

IIRC the books pretty much say that
Spoiler

She is actually pregnant and the Westerlings are hiding that fact

[Crazedwraith]

IIRC the books pretty much say that
Spoiler

She is actually pregnant and the Westerlings are hiding that fact

wait, what? when.
Spoiler

I remember some people theorising that the Jayne, Jaime meets isn't the real one. But I don't recall the book 'pretty much saying something' on the topic.

[Thanas]

Yeah, this is based on them looking nothing alike. Martin seldomly says something outright, but I consider it to be the most likely theory.

[Vympel]

Fuck the torturing. I don't give a shit about Theon anymore. He's wasting valuable screentime where we could be seeing Julius Caesar Mance Rayder mustering to attack Castle Black or Tywin being fucking awesome or Jaime learning to fence left-handed or dragons burning shit or Roose Trollton preparing to give Jaime's regards to Robb or a billion other cool useful things.

Like I said earlier, I think Theon's plot usefulness this season ended, at the most, with Episode 6, if not earlier. But:

They should have done like GRRM did in the books and just disappear Theon for a fucking thousand pages, because there's no plot moving forward there at all.

You just can't do that. Alfie Allen can't be disappeared for multiple seasons, if he goes and finds other work then their casting is fucked, and they're not going to pay him to do nothing. Its a necessary evil of the adaptation - while they can get away with it with less significant cast members who by their very nature are unlikely to find new work in the meantime (Ser Barristan Selmy, Lysa Tully) its much riskier for main cast.

[spaceviking]

After how much Theon goes through, weight loss etc, it would not be that bad if they recast Theon after a season of not being seen. Recasting Bran might be necessarily anyway.

[Vaporous]

Yeah, this is based on them looking nothing alike. Martin seldomly says something outright, but I consider it to be the most likely theory.

Didn't Martin come out and say that he wrote that by mistake and that it didn't mean anything?

[Vympel]

This episode was awesome. Very tightly focused, not sprawling out too much over multiple characters. Making Daario a Second Sons lieutenant as opposed to a leader of the Stormcrows simplified things in a positive way, as did Mero getting it right then and there.

And oh yay Stannis and Davos together again! I squeed.

The wedding scene was great television - drunk Tyrion was a riot, and he did a great recovery from threatening Joffrey in the scariest I've ever seen him.

A lot of purists are whining about Sansa kneeling so Tyrion could put the Lannister cloak on, but really - who gives a shit. The point was made, they wisely elected not to make her out as a bitch.

And good one Sam! Stood his ground and didn't take no shit.

[Ralin]

The wedding scene was great television - drunk Tyrion was a riot, and he did a great recovery from threatening Joffrey in the scariest I've ever seen him.

I didn't like how they separated that and the rape threat. If memory serves it was one of the last really good "Tyrion smacks down Joffery" moments, and it loses some of his impact without him doing it to protect Sansa.

A lot of purists are whining about Sansa kneeling so Tyrion could put the Lannister cloak on, but really - who gives a shit. The point was made, they wisely elected not to make her out as a bitch.

I also thought Tyrion managing to get Sansa to smile before the wedding weakened it a little, but hooboy did it feel good to see Sansa being less miserable than the book had her be.

[Thanas]

Good episode. Peter Dinklage's performance was even greater than usual.


Sam should have grabbed that blade. Might have been useful.

[Ralin]

By the way, did anyone think that Gray Worm was a little quick to offer to kill the Second Sons leaders for dissing Dany? It just seemed more of an emotional reaction than I would expect from an Unsullied on duty.

[Patroklos]

Fuck the torturing. I don't give a shit about Theon anymore. He's wasting valuable screentime where we could be seeing Julius Caesar Mance Rayder mustering to attack Castle Black or Tywin being fucking awesome or Jaime learning to fence left-handed or dragons burning shit or Roose Trollton preparing to give Jaime's regards to Robb or a billion other cool useful things. They should have done like GRRM did in the books and just disappear Theon for a fucking thousand pages, because there's no plot moving forward there at all.

I think it was mentioned before but in a book you don't have any actors who need to be paid or kept interested in your project (lest they find another). Plus audiences would forget about him, which would work for some demographics but not others.

Good episode, the wedding and bedding went down well but again this stupid Shea love story thing, right now we have no reason for what we know will eventually happen to go down.

[Crown]

Sam should have grabbed that blade. Might have been useful.

That was going to be my question; did Sam leave the blade behind?

[Crown]

By the way, did anyone think that Gray Worm was a little quick to offer to kill the Second Sons leaders for dissing Dany? It just seemed more of an emotional reaction than I would expect from an Unsullied on duty.

Didn't feel off to me, these Unsullied are fanatical about Daenerys.

[gigabytelord]

Sam should have grabbed that blade. Might have been useful.

That was going to be my question; did Sam leave the blade behind?

He's got a whole bag full of them.

[Thanas]

No, in the series he only found/carried that one blade iirc.

[TheHammer]

Sam should have grabbed that blade. Might have been useful.

That was going to be my question; did Sam leave the blade behind?

He's got a whole bag full of them.

No, in the series he only found/carried that one blade iirc.

Actually it seemed to me he found a big ass bag of them too... Are you talking book series or TV series?

[fgalkin]

Man, Barristan is the most useless bodyguard ever. What sort of idiot is running Dany's security that an assassin can simply walk through the camp and into her tent, without being challenged once? Where were Ser Barristan and Jorah? What about her bloodriders? Unsullied guards outside? Dragons? Anyone?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Scrib]

=
A lot of purists are whining about Sansa kneeling so Tyrion could put the Lannister cloak on, but really - who gives a shit. The point was made, they wisely elected not to make her out as a bitch.

That is probably why they're whining. The idea that not kneeling for someone you're being forced to marry because he makes a small effort to be polite before he rapes you makes you a bitch and that the writers need to account for this is an idea some people don't want to encourage.

Good episode, the wedding and bedding went down well but again this stupid Shea love story thing, right now we have no reason for what we know will eventually happen to go down.

Shae apparently promoted herself to "mistress" at some point and Tyrion never noticed.

[Elfdart]

Is George Martin trying to set up a 30s-style love triangle with Danerys, Jorah and Fabio?

[Ralin]

Is George Martin trying to set up a 30s-style love triangle with Danerys, Jorah and Fabio?

Basically, yeah.
Spoiler

Fabio is going to be our reminder that Daenerys is still a teenager and that teenagers make bad decisions.

EDIT:

Man, Barristan is the most useless bodyguard ever. What sort of idiot is running Dany's security that an assassin can simply walk through the camp and into her tent, without being challenged once? Where were Ser Barristan and Jorah? What about her bloodriders? Unsullied guards outside? Dragons? Anyone?

The dragons being the biggest issue. I can buy that Fabio is this super badass commando secret agent man who can sneak his way into Daenery's camp and past her Queensguard, but the dragons would be with her night and day.

[Vympel]

That is probably why they're whining. The idea that not kneeling for someone you're being forced to marry because he makes a small effort to be polite before he rapes you makes you a bitch and that the writers need to account for this is an idea some people don't want to encourage.

The notion that Tyrion was ever going to rape Sansa is absurd, or that Sansa would actually believe that, is crazy. He had already gone to see her to reassure her in a legitimate fashion, he wasn't just "being polite" and its crystal clear that Tyrion is no more a fan of the marriage than Sansa is. Its not all about her, and it comes across as mocking his stature. Its a good change.

EDIT: this is something the book confirms when Sansa think to herself that she's ashamed of her stubborness the moment she turns to face Tyrion.

[Scrib]

That is probably why they're whining. The idea that not kneeling for someone you're being forced to marry because he makes a small effort to be polite before he rapes you makes you a bitch and that the writers need to account for this is an idea some people don't want to encourage.

The notion that Tyrion was ever going to rape Sansa is absurd, or that Sansa would actually believe that, is crazy. He had already gone to see her to reassure her in a legitimate fashion, he wasn't just "being polite" and its crystal clear that Tyrion is no more a fan of the marriage than Sansa is. Its not all about her, and it comes across as mocking his stature. Its a good change.

Tyrion was going to have to consummate his marriage. Regardless of how he bad he feels the entire event was created to give him a chance to use his penis on Sansa. Sure, he looks like he feels bad but not bad enough to call off the marriage (which he at least offered to do in the books, no matter what you think of his motives). He's already bent to pressure once and this is a culture that pretty much walks the bride and groom right into the bed.But oh, Sansa should really realise that this its not about her! Her concern should be with the Lannister lord that is helping his family weasel their way into her ancestral home. He had no choice!

Not to mention that to a child the cries of a grown-up about how he really has no choice but to tie himself to the heir to Winterfell and deny her possible escape are going to ring hollow.

It's perhaps a good change because we can't see Sansa's inner monologue but I think that her thoughts here made perfect sense. None of them give that much of a shit about her so why should she spare them mockery? They want to take everything from her, even the "nice" Tyrion is participating.No matter what he says he's taking part. So if the only way she can strike back when her life is being chipped away is to make Tyrion feel a bit uncomfortable then okay. The tiny rebellion is all she has left. A bit impolitic but totally understandable.

I have to wonder if the backlash you see on the Westeros forums is because she did it at all or that she did it to the fan favorite Tyrion who had his own self-pitying POV where he whined about how the girl being married to people trying to murder her family and use her as a broodmare couldn't spare him a little light ribbing. He was such a Nice Guy(TM) right?