Game of Thrones Season 3: A Storm of Swords (No Spoilers)

[Cykeisme]

I don't think you can call stuff like
Spoiler

slave soldiers chained together at the wrist and ankles in groups of ten or going into battle wearing high heel-stilts

Anything but silly.

Spoiler

The book outright describes them as silly.
It's NOT as if they're feared fighters in-universe, they're not. These slavers with their ridiculous units of fighting slaves would be worthless on the battlefield. It's made very clear that every actual sellsword in the book who sees them knows they're a joke.

Just to clarify, I've only started on the series (my plan was to read first, and I've only just finished).
Has anyone who's done it in the same order (read, then watched) been significantly disappointed by any of the changes in particular?
Even in the beginning of the first season, I've already found that some characters didn't perfectly match how I pictured them, but I suppose that's to be expected.

Going back to the Daario thing, I agree with Ralin they could have gone with just the blue hair, possibly the forked beard, if done right. The level of visual weirdness would have to be compensated for by showing equal measures of deeds. For one thing, they'd need to establish that he's not just some pompous fool, by showing him brutally slaughtering some enemies with his gold-hilted ladies.

[Ralin]

Has anyone who's done it in the same order (read, then watched) been significantly disappointed by any of the changes in particular?
Even in the beginning of the first season, I've already found that some characters didn't perfectly match how I pictured them, but I suppose that's to be expected.

Not really disappointed so much as confused by some of the things they changed/left out. Like Tyrion's line about never betting against his family, or when he told Mort to present himself to the court if he ever found himself in Casterly Rock so Tyrion could give him "The rest of what I owe you."

Off the top of my head I'd say my biggest disappointment was Roose Bolton. He just does not have the creepiness that makes him memorable in the book, and you can tell they're having to overcompensate with Ramsey as a result.

I was also hoping we'd get one scene of Jaime just completely kicking ass before he was maimed, but meh, didn't really expect it. Or for the fight between him and Brienne to be very well done, for that matter.

[Kane Starkiller]

Wow they're really burning through the "good guys".
You know if this was the beginning of the season I would say that Starks (those that audience knows and cares for) are pretty much done for and any drama between Starks and Lannisters is gone however both Bran and Arya are growing up, becoming more proactive and seem better prepared to fill in dead Stark's shoes than they were at the end of season 2.
Maybe Bran will go all Xavier on us and mind control a dragon right beneath Daenerys' ass.

Of course there is Jon Snow and I always kind of thought his character has a long journey ahead of him, discovering who or what the White Walkers are and who he really is, who his mother is but now I'm not sure he'll make it to the end of the season either (certanly not judging by the look Ygritte gave him as he hightailed it to Castle Black).

[Kane Starkiller]

P.S. Catelyin slitting the throat of that girl and getting her own cut in turn was nothing compared to Mormont getting friendzoned in 5 minutes of screen time. Now that was brutal.

[JLTucker]

I love how critics praised this horrid episode when it was 40 minutes of shit followed by predictable bullshit in the last ten minutes. The show has lost any sense of qualitative entertainment and instead relies on shock value to get the attention of its brain dead audience.

[Kane Starkiller]

I thought a lot of interesting things happened. Jon decides he will not harm an unarmed old man even if his own life is at stake, even for Ygritte. He decides to fight the wildlings and escape. Bran continues to discover the extent of his powers. Daenerys' decision to do the right thing actually pays off when Yunkai slaves throw down their weapons and decide to join her forces.
Robb faces the consequences of his actions. Northern Rebellion is now pretty much crushed but it remains to be seen how Northern common folk and other houses will treat the Freys and Boltons in the future after such a betrayal and whether this will bite them in the ass.
In fact it is a pretty densely packed episode I would say.

As far as the "shock value" goes these events were written in the books over 10 years ago. So it's not as if the TV producers were suddenly like "holy shit the ratings are down better kill a whole bunch of Starks".

[JLTucker]

As far as the "shock value" goes these events were written in the books over 10 years ago. So it's not as if the TV producers were suddenly like "holy shit the ratings are down better kill a whole bunch of Starks".

That's not a valid reason for imitating Shyamalan, though. You have 40 minutes stuff that appears to be development and then you're bombarded with excessive and laughable violence just so the audience can get their rocks off. The show does for violence what it does with sex: poorly executed, excessive, and devoid of any subtlety. Then you have that cheesy stuff with Rob and his partner's fetus.

Hell, even that development blew because the show treats magic like all lazy works of art do: use it when it's needed to get the characters out of situations.

I will say that the shot of Catelyn cutting Frey's wife's throat and having her own cut was well done. The only good thing as of late regarding cinematography and one of the few good things about the episode.

[Scrib]

Hell, even that development blew because the show treats magic like all lazy works of art do: use it when it's needed to get the characters out of situations.

Yeah, pretty sure that this is a valid choice. Not all magic need be rigid and Sanderson-esque. Sometimes it works as just something magical.

YMMV obviously. If Martin had went out of his way to create robust rules like JKR and then break them or appeal to randomness or something it'd be one thing. He didnt.

[Vympel]

That's not a valid reason for imitating Shyamalan, though. You have 40 minutes stuff that appears to be development and then you're bombarded with excessive and laughable violence just so the audience can get their rocks off. The show does for violence what it does with sex: poorly executed, excessive, and devoid of any subtlety. Then you have that cheesy stuff with Rob and his partner's fetus.

Not really sure why violence should be be subtle.

[JLTucker]

That's not a valid reason for imitating Shyamalan, though. You have 40 minutes stuff that appears to be development and then you're bombarded with excessive and laughable violence just so the audience can get their rocks off. The show does for violence what it does with sex: poorly executed, excessive, and devoid of any subtlety. Then you have that cheesy stuff with Rob and his partner's fetus.

Not really sure why violence should be be subtle.

It's relative. I am not a fan of excessive violence anymore and prefer the atmosphere more than the violence itself. Seeing people penetrated with knives and arrows is not entertaining. Seeing Catelyn scream for her son is. Seeing Arya's look of horror on her face knowing something major just went down is. Watching Frey manically smile with glee at what he did is. It's too bad that HBO's trademark ruined all of that shit sans Arya's reaction.

[JLTucker]

Hell, even that development blew because the show treats magic like all lazy works of art do: use it when it's needed to get the characters out of situations.

Yeah, pretty sure that this is a valid choice. Not all magic need be rigid and Sanderson-esque. Sometimes it works as just something magical.

YMMV obviously. If Martin had went out of his way to create robust rules like JKR and then break them or appeal to randomness or something it'd be one thing. He didnt.

"Oh, hai there. We need you to help us all and take control of people and wolves. We never really introduced that you could do this at will, but do it anyway to move the story along. Mmkay?" It sucks. It doesn't have to be like Rowling's world. They were gradually showing the use of magic with Bran (is that his name?) but went all out for the sake of moving the story along.

[Vympel]

"Oh, hai there. We need you to help us all and take control of people and wolves. We never really introduced that you could do this at will, but do it anyway to move the story along. Mmkay?" It sucks. It doesn't have to be like Rowling's world. They were gradually showing the use of magic with Bran (is that his name?) but went all out for the sake of moving the story along.

They did introduce that he could do it at will, in multiple ways. First they showed that Orell, a practiced skinchanger, did it at will, and they also showed Jojen flat out tell Bran that doing it in dreams was only how it starts, and that he should be able to do it at will. I don't really see the problem with basically having Bran do it at will through reflex/adrenaline because of extreme pressure.

[Elfdart]

P.S. Catelyin slitting the throat of that girl and getting her own cut in turn was nothing compared to Mormont getting friendzoned in 5 minutes of screen time. Now that was brutal.

As I've pointed out before, my girlfriend has been convinced Danerys should have slept with Jorah by now. But between the appearance of Barrister, the flashback from Season 1 where everyone was reminded that Jorah is one of Varys' spies, AND the introduction of Fabio it appears Danerys isn't the only woman ready to kick poor Jorah to the curb.


I've always thought the Danerys/Jorah thing was a steal from Jarrolt's Mary, Queen of Scots:



You have a teenage queen living in exile who is not liked or respected by very many people, except for her beauty and her title. When her first husband dies, she's left on her own aside from a shady, scruffy older man (who obviously wants her for himself) no one trusts. He is then pushed aside for a younger man the queen should have better sense than to fool around with. The look on Jorah's face when Danerys asks about Fabio reminded me of the look on Bothwell's face when he reaches to kiss Mary's hand and she pulls it away. Oh and where Bothwell admits he's jealous of the younger, prettier man Mary has chosen.

[Vympel]

Nice catch. That's almost certainly deliberate on behalf of GRRM. He freely admits adapting things from works he likes - for example, he notes the book version of Stannis takes a lot from George Baker's turn as Tiberius in I, Claudius, which I spotted in Stannis' first big speech in the second book (where he complains about how Robert never thanked him for anything he did). It mirrors Tiberius' aggrieved speech in I, Claudius about Augustus always taking him for granted.

[Elfdart]

The Wedding reminded me of the palace coup (1:07:41) where the Scottish lords drag Rizzio out and stab him dozens of time ("And this is from the king!"), while trying to shoot the pregnant queen in the stomach with a pistol.

[Vaporous]

Nice catch. That's almost certainly deliberate on behalf of GRRM. He freely admits adapting things from works he likes - for example, he notes the book version of Stannis takes a lot from George Baker's turn as Tiberius in I, Claudius, which I spotted in Stannis' first big speech in the second book (where he complains about how Robert never thanked him for anything he did). It mirrors Tiberius' aggrieved speech in I, Claudius about Augustus always taking him for granted.

Never heard that before, but I can definitely see it. Stannis would be about as happy as King as Tiberius was as Emperor, too.

[Elfdart]

Oh, and while we're on the subject of Jorah Mormont's blue balls:



Saw this on YouTube:

Q: Why doesn't George R. R. Martin use Twitter?

A: He killed all 140 characters.

[Surlethe]

The Wedding reminded me of the palace coup (1:07:41) where the Scottish lords drag Rizzio out and stab him dozens of time ("And this is from the king!"), while trying to shoot the pregnant queen in the stomach with a pistol.

I haven't seen Mary, Queen of Scots, but Martin has specifically mentioned two sets of Scottish shenanigans as inspiration for the Red Wedding: the Massacre of Glencoe and the Black Dinner. (I read the interview earlier today, but I've closed the tab and I can't find the page again. I think I saw it linked on Reddit.)

[Meest]

That's not a valid reason for imitating Shyamalan, though. You have 40 minutes stuff that appears to be development and then you're bombarded with excessive and laughable violence just so the audience can get their rocks off. The show does for violence what it does with sex: poorly executed, excessive, and devoid of any subtlety. Then you have that cheesy stuff with Rob and his partner's fetus.

Not really sure why violence should be be subtle.

I agree, by showing they are willing to kill a pregnant mother and baby, it makes the rest of the scene more tense by making the viewer have to wish someone will be safe. Works both ways, without tragic things happening the good times aren't as "good" also, you need the up and down swings to get better emotion and reactions. Take the complaints about the Yunkai takeover, imagine if the RW was purely offscreen, it's like erasing the Godfather toll booth scene.

[Scrib]

That's not a valid reason for imitating Shyamalan, though. You have 40 minutes stuff that appears to be development and then you're bombarded with excessive and laughable violence just so the audience can get their rocks off. The show does for violence what it does with sex: poorly executed, excessive, and devoid of any subtlety. Then you have that cheesy stuff with Rob and his partner's fetus.

Not really sure why violence should be be subtle.

It's relative. I am not a fan of excessive violence anymore and prefer the atmosphere more than the violence itself. Seeing people penetrated with knives and arrows is not entertaining. Seeing Catelyn scream for her son is. Seeing Arya's look of horror on her face knowing something major just went down is. Watching Frey manically smile with glee at what he did is. It's too bad that HBO's trademark ruined all of that shit sans Arya's reaction.

Right, so it's poorly executed because you, JLTucker, are not a fan of it? (Not to mention that there was actually a reaction and atmosphere as well).

[JLTucker]

It's relative. I am not a fan of excessive violence anymore and prefer the atmosphere more than the violence itself. Seeing people penetrated with knives and arrows is not entertaining. Seeing Catelyn scream for her son is. Seeing Arya's look of horror on her face knowing something major just went down is. Watching Frey manically smile with glee at what he did is. It's too bad that HBO's trademark ruined all of that shit sans Arya's reaction.

Right, so it's poorly executed because you, JLTucker, are not a fan of it? (Not to mention that there was actually a reaction and atmosphere as well).

No. It's poorly executed because it was in the vein of a Shyamalan film, poorly directed, shot, exaggerated, violence over atmosphere, etc. Having Rob and what's her face become lovey dovey about their fetus and then see them murdered was poorly executed and has all the trademarks of a hack writer and director. Let's ham shit up and then go out with a glorious and exaggerated bang!

[Scrib]

It's relative. I am not a fan of excessive violence anymore and prefer the atmosphere more than the violence itself. Seeing people penetrated with knives and arrows is not entertaining. Seeing Catelyn scream for her son is. Seeing Arya's look of horror on her face knowing something major just went down is. Watching Frey manically smile with glee at what he did is. It's too bad that HBO's trademark ruined all of that shit sans Arya's reaction.

Right, so it's poorly executed because you, JLTucker, are not a fan of it? (Not to mention that there was actually a reaction and atmosphere as well).

No. It's poorly executed because it was in the vein of a Shyamalan film, poorly directed, shot, exaggerated, violence over atmosphere, etc. Having Rob and what's her face become lovey dovey about their fetus and then see them murdered was poorly executed and has all the trademarks of a hack writer and director. Let's ham shit up and then go out with a glorious and exaggerated bang!

While I definitely have not given much of a shit about Robb and Talisa at all amidst the constant transparent attempts to make me give a shit so I'm not sure if it's sappy or just the final twist of the knife. Leaving Robb's sort-of reconciliation with his mother would probably have been more subtle but if perhaps if I wasn't a book reader could have felt for these people without seeing the hand of the puppeteer and knowing his mind it would have had an effect.

I personally liked the shock violence. It brought an immediate visceral reaction with it. And while the violence went by pretty fast wrt to the extras it had emotional weight from the death of Jeyne (a bit) to Grey Wind (who we probably should have seen more of before) to Robb (Madden was not particularly impressive) and Cat.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

My favourite part of the episode was when Catelyn slowly starts realising that things are going wrong, and then through Bolton's subtle hints realises exactly how wrong things are about to get. I thought it was a great way to bring up the tension before the climax and the body language he was using made him seem incredibly dangerous and creepy in a greatly subtle way.

[Elfdart]

The only thing that offended the girls in the office more than this pic was that I laughed out loud at it:



They all hate Jon Snow now for running out on Ygritte.



When he tells the scrawny beastmaster "You were right about me all along" I started to doubt he's the offspring of Ned Stark. Not only was he slightly devious, but he seemed to enjoy being a bit of a dick and showed a little bit of character instead of being the mopey dullard he usually is. I like Asshole Jon Snow!

[Vympel]

I'm surprised at how many non-book readers had a problem with Jon running off without Ygritte. Not only did she kill the the defenceless old horse breeder (showing how different she is from him in that respect), but he clearly wasn't going to risk his chance of warning Castle Black with some sentimental attempt to bring her back to a whole bunch of awkward questions.