Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)

[Rogue 9]

Again, you have more faith in humanity than I then. When faced with war and the loss of what they do still possess, I think most will calm the fuck down as they did in the books. Sure, it was a tense situation, but nothing a few years of distance and the lack of any agitating forces (like say, Bran and Rickon) couldn't solve. Well, keep underfoot for a generation or two until it calms down.

Like the Ironborn calmed down after seven hundred years of vassalage to King's Landing? Oh wait.

[Scrib]

Who do you think the king is, fucking Leto II? Sorry, rebellions happen. If you get one in 700 (that number is so wrong) years because of one ambitious man from a culture that explicitly prizes murder,rape and conquest during a transition between governments you have no right to complain. The goal is to keep oneself strong enough that those people eat it.

[Rogue 9]

Who do you think the king is, fucking Leto II? Sorry, rebellions happen. If you get one in 700 (that number is so wrong) years because of one ambitious man from a culture that explicitly prizes murder,rape and conquest during a transition between governments you have no right to complain. The goal is to keep oneself strong enough that those people eat it.

Sorry, I hadn't read the books in awhile and for some reason that number was sticking in my head as the time since Aegon's conquest. Two hundred ninety-eight, then. Why does their culture still prize murder, rape, and conquest after hundreds of years of subjugation? Generations have passed since Aegon kicked their asses and the descendants of the conquered have been in vassalage ever since. If forgetting is so easy in Westeros as you suggest, they wouldn't be fucking Viking clones anymore after all that time, since they haven't been allowed to be.

[Scrib]

Who do you think the king is, fucking Leto II? Sorry, rebellions happen. If you get one in 700 (that number is so wrong) years because of one ambitious man from a culture that explicitly prizes murder,rape and conquest during a transition between governments you have no right to complain. The goal is to keep oneself strong enough that those people eat it.

Sorry, I hadn't read the books in awhile and for some reason that number was sticking in my head as the time since Aegon's conquest. Two hundred ninety-eight, then. Why does their culture still prize murder, rape, and conquest after hundreds of years of subjugation? Generations have passed since Aegon kicked their asses and the descendants of the conquered have been in vassalage ever since. If forgetting is so easy in Westeros as you suggest, they wouldn't be fucking Viking clones anymore after all that time, since they haven't been allowed to be.

This is something I ask and the answer is that Aegon was a lord who believed in a very loose form of governing (he probably had no choice) and the Iron Islands were a shithole that no one cared enough about and they knew their place.

They can still tell themselves tales about the glory days and if there is some ambitious or powerful asshole he may start some trouble but really, those will exist and they'll find some pretense.Tywin had to deal with both the Reynes and the Tarbecks, Aerys had a rebelling vassal before Robert well,Stannis and Joff had Renly, the Starks had trouble with the Boltons as well, but until that sneak attack they were handling it. The problem you have to deal with is making sure that it's not an immediate issue that can reach critical mass.

[The Yosemite Bear]

why is my brain now flashing back to: Hello my name is Inigo Montoya Tully, you killed my father prepare to die

[Thanas]

Loved this episode and this whole season. Highlight of the episode was the Arya/Hound tagteam as well as Tywinn Lannister being himself.

[Flagg]

Loved this episode and this whole season. Highlight of the episode was the Arya/Hound tagteam as well as Tywinn Lannister being himself.

Every episode could be Arya and Tywin being themselves and it would be choice TV.

[Thanas]

Season 2 - man those were excellent scenes.

[Vympel]

Loved this episode and this whole season. Highlight of the episode was the Arya/Hound tagteam as well as Tywinn Lannister being himself.

I have trouble choosing in terms of what constitutes my favorite season so far. Overall I thought this season was great, the only misstep, I think, was the excessive time spent torturing Theon - which mercifully ended one episode after when it should have, and was brought back in the finale precisely when it was relevant going forward. I am glad they actually did something with Theon's castration though, since at the time I saw the scene I thought they were just being too gratuitious. I still think that with that scene, but at least it served a purpose for the narrative.

Season 2 - man those were excellent scenes.

That's what the overwhelming majority think - me included. Its telling that the only people who seemingly disagree is Elio and Linda on westeros.org, who are far, far farrrr too invested in book purism to see it as anything other than Arya just spinning her wheels for multiple episode. In the roundup of Season 3 Elio complains how "the characters should serve the story, not the story the characters" should be the writer's motto - which I think is absolutely terrible advice for a TV show.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Honestly, I'm looking forward to a scene where Tyrion has the realization that, oh shit, he's being a smart mouth to a sociopath that will hold him in the palm of his hand and will be able to completely crush him in a few years. And not only that, unlike Tywin, said sociopath is not going to tolerate his little japes. It's satisfying to see him talk down to Joffrey I guess but what leverage does he think he has exactly? He's the twisted monkey demon, Joff is the king.

I honestly think Tyrion just doesn't give a fuck. He knows he's valuable and with Tywin around that's a fair bit of protection. Tywin may despise Tyrion but he'll still protect him simply out of Tyrion being a Lannister. And the whole not giving a fuck thing. If anything, he may be trying to give Joffrey experiences that will potentially lead to the little shit growing as a person. Or he just doesn't care what happens to him, ultimately. He's pretty sure Joffrey has already tried to have him killed so he figures the situation can't get any worse so he may as well have fun with it. Which ties in with not giving a shit.


Mandatory Theon jokes: Well, it seems he's going to be a lot less dickish in the future. Sorry, that joke was a bit below the belt. (Somebody stop me.)

[Vympel]

Mandatory Theon jokes: Well, it seems he's going to be a lot less dickish in the future. Sorry, that joke was a bit below the belt. (Somebody stop me.)

I'll cut you off right there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI

[Scrib]

Honestly, I'm looking forward to a scene where Tyrion has the realization that, oh shit, he's being a smart mouth to a sociopath that will hold him in the palm of his hand and will be able to completely crush him in a few years. And not only that, unlike Tywin, said sociopath is not going to tolerate his little japes. It's satisfying to see him talk down to Joffrey I guess but what leverage does he think he has exactly? He's the twisted monkey demon, Joff is the king.

I honestly think Tyrion just doesn't give a fuck. He knows he's valuable and with Tywin around that's a fair bit of protection. Tywin may despise Tyrion but he'll still protect him simply out of Tyrion being a Lannister.

Not only is that a defense with a half-life it's also not a guarantee that anyone should put their trust in, especially since Tyrion didn't, and still doesn't, know the limits of his father's forbearance.

If anything, he may be trying to give Joffrey experiences that will potentially lead to the little shit growing as a person

Nope, he's really not. Tyrion seemingly never had any hope of making him a better person at all. I don't blame him, but threatening the king, beating him and forcing him to do what you want because you say so and knowing that all that'll happen is that he'll run to his yes-men or mother who will all blame it on you is shitty training.

Or he just doesn't care what happens to him, ultimately. He's pretty sure Joffrey has already tried to have him killed so he figures the situation can't get any worse so he may as well have fun with it. Which ties in with not giving a shit.

Well, he has at best, what, a few years of drinking and partying left right? He better enjoy it. If I were him I'd take Shae and fuck off to wherever the hell she's from, ASAP.Not that that would stop a truly determined Lannister,he doesn't exactly blend in does he?

[Ralin]

I think it's something that's evolved over time, re: Tyrion's treatment of Joffery. Let's go over it stage by stage.

Season 1: We don't really know how much contact Tyrion had with Joffery prior to the trip to Winterfell, so I'll start here. Robert is alive and well. Joffery is a thirteen year old boy; not likely to be sitting on the throne anytime soon. We don't know how much Tyrion knows about his sadistic tendencies, but from what we as the viewer/reader know at that point Joffery is just some spoiled little shithead. One who is threatening to insult the grieving Starks with his callousness and thereby embarrass Tyrion’s family, and not incidently cause emotional pain to people who really don’t need anymore of it. So Tyrion smacks him upside the head to get him pretend he’s a decent human being. The Hound makes no move to interfere, so evidently this isn’t some horrible crime that Tyrion should expect to lose his hand over.

Season 2: Joffery has become the Joffery we all love to hate. Tyrion walks in on him about to have Sansa stripped and lashed. He knows he has Tywin’s backing and that he’s in a position of power over Joffery. More to the point, he’s outraged. Tyrion may try to act cynical and worldly, but he’s a very good and compassionate man at heart. He’s not thinking of his own well-being; he’s focused on doing the right thing and protecting a traumatized teenage girl. His future safety and well-being come second to that.

Ditto for when he smacks Joffery for setting off the riot. Watch that scene again and listen to the anger in his voice. He’s pissed at what a petty monster Joffery is acting like, and that pushes the the logical part of him that says that striking Joffery means risking horrible vengeance later on out of his head.

Season 3: Tyrion threatens Joffery after the wedding. Well, he was drunk. And probably a bit resigned to the fact that things are going to continue going down the crapper for him. And let’s not forget, in the book he was reacting to Joffery threatening to rape his wife. Tyrion may not have wanted to marry Sansa, but hell if he isn’t going to protect her now that he has.

So yeah, overall I’d say the big consistent thread here isn’t Tyrion not giving a fuck. It’s Tyrion having a heart several sizes too large for his body and not being able to keep his better nature in check.

[Guardsman Bass]

I was out of town for a few days, so I just saw it last night. It was an okay episode, but god I loved that moment between Joffrey and Tywin when Joffrey realizes he just stepped over a very dangerous line - and he retreats despite his whining about how the King is "not tired!". The music, the exchange of looks - it's just perfect, and for a book-fan like me it really shows what it might mean when the characters talked about how Tywin could intimidate people with just a look.

[Spekio]

Spoiler

The last scene with Varys was a saving throw. Book!Shae did not love Tyrion, nor cared about Sansa. While I'm not sure I like those changes, since it demonstrated how Tyrion was ultimately seeing love where there was only greed, this made possible for GoT!Shae to end in bed with Tywin.

[Scrib]

Spoiler

The last scene with Varys was a saving throw. Book!Shae did not love Tyrion, nor cared about Sansa. While I'm not sure I like those changes, since it demonstrated how Tyrion was ultimately seeing love where there was only greed, this made possible for GoT!Shae to end in bed with Tywin.

How does that last scene it make what you spoilered possible?

snip.

Good post.

[Spekio]

How does that last scene it make what you spoilered possible?

Varys made Shae believe Tyrion wants her gone. She even says that if he wants her gone, he could say so directly. The diamonds evoke the expensive gifts Tyrion gave to her previously, Spoiler

including the gold chains that will be used to strangle her

since they can't be together.

[Raw Shark]

Overall a very good episode, IMHO. A few thoughts:

Very surprised that they didn't do Joffrey's wedding in this episode. Kind of lackluster compared to the upbeat tone I was expecting them to console the fans with.

Little bit disappointed by the Shae / Varys scene. In the books, we are never shown for certain whether Shae would or would not ditch Tyrion for a big bag of money, and I personally liked that.

Very disappointed by the lack of the Black Door under the Night Fort. It could've been very cool, and wouldn'tve taken long. Even my girlfriend got kind of vocal about this one, and she hasn't even bothered to finish AFFC yet.

[Scrib]

How does that last scene it make what you spoilered possible?

Varys made Shae believe Tyrion wants her gone. She even says that if he wants her gone, he could say so directly. The diamonds evoke the expensive gifts Tyrion gave to her previously, Spoiler

including the gold chains that will be used to strangle her

since they can't be together.

Spoiler

wait...so because Varys wants Tyrion gone -he doesn't even pretend that Tyrion doesn't want her- and she will never be his wife she'll jump into bed with Tywin? I mean, it's possible but they'd have to sell it.

[Spekio]

Remeber that earlier that day she saw Tyrion and Sansa having fun? And Tyrion mentioned seeing Varys to get info on thar Ser and Lord?

She doesn't know Varys that well, nor he has (in her view) any reason to care about her. Spoiler

Varys wants to reinstate the Targaryen, so he is trying to undermine the Lannisters, as we know.

Remeber, Shae is hurt, and by not mentioning Tyrion, Varys let her make the connections she wanted to make. Spoiler

What better way of hurting Tyrion back other than sleeping with his father?

[Vympel]

Very surprised that they didn't do Joffrey's wedding in this episode. Kind of lackluster compared to the upbeat tone I was expecting them to console the fans with.

For my part, I have no idea why so many people thought they'd see it this season. They clearly didn't pay any attention to the casting, since it was obvious from months ago that it wasn't on the cards (and I'm glad it wasn't, too).

[Surlethe]

I was confused by the Greyjoy plot. Asha/Yara is supposed to be chilling at Deepwood Mott. Are they going to have her hook up with Stannis when he sails up the Narrow Sea?

[Scrib]

Very surprised that they didn't do Joffrey's wedding in this episode. Kind of lackluster compared to the upbeat tone I was expecting them to console the fans with.

For my part, I have no idea why so many people thought they'd see it this season. They clearly didn't pay any attention to the casting, since it was obvious from months ago that it wasn't on the cards (and I'm glad it wasn't, too).

Speaking of casting... Spoiler

Is the weirder thing is that we didn't see Lady Stoneheart perhaps? It's not very upbeat but it would have prevented them from having to go through the trouble of rehiring Lord Beric next season no?

But then, I've heard it said that it's not happening at all. I find that hard to believe, but that would explain the change of Roose's line.

[Vympel]

It was a surprise that we didn't see it. But of course we'll see it next season, its very hard to believe we won't. Anyone who says we won't is a dumbass pulling stupid speculation out of their ass. I hate it when people make shit up like that. Grrr.
Spoiler

Michelle Fairley has made cryptic comments about this. The implication of those comments is that she hasn't finished with the show. Expect to see LS at the end of Season 4, I imagine.

[Spekio]

Spoiler

No point in having Bendric on the show and not having Cat ressurect. That said, since the actress has commitments to another show, we might not see her till the end of season 4.

On the Arya front, what troubles me most, is that there is speculation that she may not go to Bravos at all. People are sayin that she might meet up with The Alchemist/Pete (The faceless man who was J'aquen), and stay with him in westeros as his padawan or something, so she could interact with familiar characters without them knowing who she is. That could be disastrous.