Not really. At least, they don't have the sort of prestige that would justify keeping a Tully around solely to breed him like a horse, especially when you were already granted Riverrun. To be fair that might apply to all houses, there isn't a lot of religious significance to their longevity iirc, but still seems strange.Ahriman238 wrote: Umm, the Tullys aren't ancient the way the Starks or Lannisters are, dating back only to Aegeon, but they're sorta Lords Paramount of the Riverlands, Masters of one of the Seven Kingdoms. Age of the House doesn't enter into it that much. The Tullys are kind of a big deal in the same way the Starks, Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells and Arryns are.
Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Nonsense, their lineage is as noble as the Tyrells or the Greyjoys, who also old houses of the Age of Heroes that rose to prominence during the Conquest.Scrib wrote:Not really. At least, they don't have the sort of prestige that would justify keeping a Tully around solely to breed him like a horse, especially when you were already granted Riverrun. To be fair that might apply to all houses, there isn't a lot of religious significance to their longevity iirc, but still seems strange.Ahriman238 wrote: Umm, the Tullys aren't ancient the way the Starks or Lannisters are, dating back only to Aegeon, but they're sorta Lords Paramount of the Riverlands, Masters of one of the Seven Kingdoms. Age of the House doesn't enter into it that much. The Tullys are kind of a big deal in the same way the Starks, Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells and Arryns are.
Have a very nice day.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
They are, like the Tyrells, recent Lord Paramounts though. Lots of houses are old, doesn't mean you'd go out of your way to breed into them, (see, the Westerlings) regardless the point still stands.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Never.Patroklos wrote: Spoiler
Spoiler
No, in the books the thing was that if the child turned out to be male, Edmure would immediately be killed, because he was no longer required. Why is not made clear - certainly nothing to do with Riverrun - which was granted to Emmon Frey (creating House Frey of Riverrun) much more likely a hostage to the good behavior of the Riverlords.Ahriman238 wrote: They do? I was under the impression that that was an honest accident in the books. They were actually worried that it could turn out to be male as well. They could just take the castle, I don't see why the Tullys matter. If it was an ancient house it may have been one thing; they're not.
Nitpick: the Riverlands were never one of the Seven Kingdoms. The Seven Kingdoms are the North, the Iron Islands, the Vale, the Reach, the Stormlands, Dorne, and the Westerlands. The Riverlands belonged to the Iron Islands at the time of Aegon's Conquest.Umm, the Tullys aren't ancient the way the Starks or Lannisters are, dating back only to Aegeon, but they're sorta Lords Paramount of the Riverlands, Masters of one of the Seven Kingdoms. Age of the House doesn't enter into it that much. The Tullys are kind of a big deal in the same way the Starks, Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells and Arryns are.
Westeros really has 9 regions / centres of power - the Riverlands plus the Seven Kingdoms, and the Crownlands, which are sworn directly to King's Landing/ the Iron Throne.
Dude, Trollton is so apt. I mean for fuck's sake, he deliberately drew Cat's attention to his chainmail.Crown wrote:By the way, I forgot to mention this but did anyone else love Roose Trollton's face when Cat explained that Ned had spared her the indignity of the bedding ceremony. It just screamed to me like he was thinking 'Well, weren't you married to the most perfect man of EVER?!?!?'
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Any time Bolton has had more than thirty seconds of screentime, he's been trolling the fuck out of everyone around him. This from the very first scene when he all but proposes flaying all the Lannister prisoners. (Then a couple of episodes later, when they realize there aren't any pens, he chimes in again -- "Too many prisoners.") And then, of course, Jaime overplaying his ... position.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
I love TV Roose and I usually like how they handle him, but I was disappointed at the quick run-by gutting on Robb. So much more awesome if we got to see Roose stride up to him, deliver his one-liner, and proudly plunge his sword into Robb's chest with his kickass red screaming face helmet and a pink-because-I-fucking-can cape on.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Don't forget with Jaime how long he drew out the news about King's Landing, saying it in a deliberate "your sister's dead" tone.Surlethe wrote:Any time Bolton has had more than thirty seconds of screentime, he's been trolling the fuck out of everyone around him. This from the very first scene when he all but proposes flaying all the Lannister prisoners. (Then a couple of episodes later, when they realize there aren't any pens, he chimes in again -- "Too many prisoners.") And then, of course, Jaime overplaying his ... position.
I don't think he wore that outfit when he made his reappearance at the wedding. In fact, where is that screaming face helmet from? I can't find it.Raw Shark wrote:I love TV Roose and I usually like how they handle him, but I was disappointed at the quick run-by gutting on Robb. So much more awesome if we got to see Roose stride up to him, deliver his one-liner, and proudly plunge his sword into Robb's chest with his kickass red screaming face helmet and a pink-because-I-fucking-can cape on.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Looks like I misremembered the helmet at the Red Wedding - I've always pictured it, and the fact that he isn't identified by name from Catelyn's POV indicates the strong probability of a helmet when he comes back, but it isn't specifically described in ASOS the way the cloak is:Vympel wrote:I don't think he wore that outfit when he made his reappearance at the wedding. In fact, where is that screaming face helmet from? I can't find it.Raw Shark wrote:I love TV Roose and I usually like how they handle him, but I was disappointed at the quick run-by gutting on Robb. So much more awesome if we got to see Roose stride up to him, deliver his one-liner, and proudly plunge his sword into Robb's chest with his kickass red screaming face helmet and a pink-because-I-fucking-can cape on.
Turns out the awesome helmet is worn by Ramsay when he arrives at Winterfell in ACOK:ASOS Paperback p 704 wrote:A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." He thrust his longsword through her son's heart, and twisted.
My fault, sorry.A Clash of Kings Paperback p 928 wrote:"How many men did you lose?" Theon asked Red Helm as he dismounted.
"Twenty or thirty." The torchlight glittered off the chipped enamel of his visor. His helm and gorget were wrought in the shape of a man's face and shoulders, skinless and bloody, mouth open in a silent howl of anguish.
"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
[url=http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/ ... warningThe Penny Arcade Report had a nice article on why this is probably going to be a unique cultural situation. [/url]
Nice relevant quote from Martin too:
Nice relevant quote from Martin too:
Going to be a long long time till another series makes us invest in so amny characters only to kill a bunch suddenly.“I try to make the readers feel they’ve lived the events of the book. Just as you grieve if a friend is killed, you should grieve if a fictional character is killed. You should care. If somebody dies and you just go get more popcorn, it’s a superficial experience isn’t it?”
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
#soon
***
Apparently this happened at a panel interview.
"So, are you excited about the upcoming season?"
That was, frankly, the only part of the wedding I thought was poorly done. It was the cinematography -- he pulled the chainmail reveal, then disappeared until he conveyed the Lannisters' regards. There should have been an establishing shot, just a half second, of Bolton watching the carnage from the sidelines to place him in the scene. He was obviously fast about the kill because he didn't want to be in the crossbow killzone, but there was no cinematic establishment.Raw Shark wrote:I love TV Roose and I usually like how they handle him, but I was disappointed at the quick run-by gutting on Robb. So much more awesome if we got to see Roose stride up to him, deliver his one-liner, and proudly plunge his sword into Robb's chest with his kickass red screaming face helmet and a pink-because-I-fucking-can cape on.
You didn't click on my second link, did you?Vympel wrote:Don't forget with Jaime how long he drew out the news about King's Landing, saying it in a deliberate "your sister's dead" tone.
***
Apparently this happened at a panel interview.
"So, are you excited about the upcoming season?"
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
But goddamn will it be imitated to death.2000AD wrote:Going to be a long long time till another series makes us invest in so amny characters only to kill a bunch suddenly.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
BwahahahahaSurlethe wrote:
"So, are you excited about the upcoming season?"
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know...tomorrow."
-Agent Kay
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
How have I never seen this quote before?
George Stroumboulopoulos: There's one thing that's interesting about your books. I noticed that you write women really well and really different. Where does that come from?
George R.R. Martin: You know, I've always considered women to be people.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
So how many people does the War of the Five Kings kill? I can't imagine a Middle-Age era society sustaining continuous warfare for very long.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
A lot. I don't think we have exact numbers, but Feast makes it clear that it really fucked up the countryside and average person.hongi wrote:So how many people does the War of the Five Kings kill? I can't imagine a Middle-Age era society sustaining continuous warfare for very long.
And not just dead people. Fields burned, livestock slaughtered, etc, and they're probably not going to get another harvest before winter sets in.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Estimations are around 60,000 dead from warfare with another 250,000 dead from disease, starvation and the like with another four million due to die in the coming winter with a total population of around 20 million for all of Westeros. Keep in mind that's only the seven kingdoms, we are not counting the free cities, the Summer Islands or anywhere else in the world.hongi wrote:So how many people does the War of the Five Kings kill? I can't imagine a Middle-Age era society sustaining continuous warfare for very long.
Estimations were all from memory from an old tower of the hand forum thread about counting up war dead and putting in real world equivalencies. The Riverlands for example are pretty much expected to be totally depopulated come Spring.
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
I just wanted to warn everyone that
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Given Danaerys' well-meaning rampage around what seems to be a much more densely populated part of the world, you could probably double that casualty list for the books as a whole...
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
She has really only caused destruction in the area of two cities. Astapor is probably a total loss and Yunkai has suffered some but it was not sacked. The Dothraki hordes are an ever present thing, despite Drogo's short lived rampage they are just going about their normal buisness and given Drogo fell upon another Khal already sacking the only town we see him attack that is probably not notable either. All in all the East seems to be doing okay, and so far there has been no mention of the winter affecting Esos whatsoever. I highly doubt Bravos would be what it is if they suffer similar affects given its size and location.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Well, the French, English, Germans, Byzantines and Turks might disagree with you on that one.hongi wrote:So how many people does the War of the Five Kings kill? I can't imagine a Middle-Age era society sustaining continuous warfare for very long.
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Wars tend to last longer as you go back farther in history. With some pre-industrial wars notoriously lasting decades and then some conflicts going on for a century. Fast wars tend to be a modern thing, due to the nature of industry, technology, and the highly centralized nature of the nation-state.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
laughed with glee while your kings and queens fought for ten decades for the god they made.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Sympathy for the Devil?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
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Hit it.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
People at my work are screeching at me and calling me all sorts of silly names because I never gave a shit about Robb and thought Caetlyn was the worst. In the books when it happened I just shrugged my shoulders and thought "fucking finally", same with the show.
They keep bitching about how:
A) there are no more Starks left. I guess the idiots forgot about Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Jon
B) there are no good guys left. To be fair, it seems everyone forgets about poor Davos.
I love tormenting them with the fact that Jamie is easily one of my favorite characters also. Whoops, did I say I liked a character out loud? GRRM is going to strike him dead next, oh noes!!
And I don't know how they'd do it, or what actors they'd get, but I'd fucking LOVE to see Robert vs. Rhaegar, or Ned Stark vs. The Sword of the Morning in flashbacks.
They keep bitching about how:
A) there are no more Starks left. I guess the idiots forgot about Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Jon
B) there are no good guys left. To be fair, it seems everyone forgets about poor Davos.
I love tormenting them with the fact that Jamie is easily one of my favorite characters also. Whoops, did I say I liked a character out loud? GRRM is going to strike him dead next, oh noes!!
And I don't know how they'd do it, or what actors they'd get, but I'd fucking LOVE to see Robert vs. Rhaegar, or Ned Stark vs. The Sword of the Morning in flashbacks.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know...tomorrow."
-Agent Kay
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)
Anyone who has bothered to follow the series knows that there are still "good guys" and starks. Hell, Jamie Lannister seems to be making a "face-turn" to borrow a pro-wrestling term, and I suspect he'll give people something to root for moving forward.NeoGoomba wrote:People at my work are screeching at me and calling me all sorts of silly names because I never gave a shit about Robb and thought Caetlyn was the worst. In the books when it happened I just shrugged my shoulders and thought "fucking finally", same with the show.
They keep bitching about how:
A) there are no more Starks left. I guess the idiots forgot about Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Jon
B) there are no good guys left. To be fair, it seems everyone forgets about poor Davos.
I love tormenting them with the fact that Jamie is easily one of my favorite characters also. Whoops, did I say I liked a character out loud? GRRM is going to strike him dead next, oh noes!!
And I don't know how they'd do it, or what actors they'd get, but I'd fucking LOVE to see Robert vs. Rhaegar, or Ned Stark vs. The Sword of the Morning in flashbacks.
What they don't seem to grasp is that Westeros is the main character of GoT.