Why doesn't Vader use order a clone for spare parts?

[Sidewinder]

A short story in one of the books that was released to promote RotS mentions Vader ordering people to reclone Jango Fett as attrition replacements for the Imperial Army. I'm wondering why Vader doesn't do the following to repair his damaged body:

1) Order a clone of himself.

2) Erase the memory of the person(s) he gave this order to.

3) When the clone is ready, kill it, harvest any necessary organs-- skin, lungs, cornea, arms and legs-- he needs, then order surgeons to transplant these organs on himself.

4) Erase the surgeons who performed the operation. Keep wearing the armor so Sidious won't know Vader has recovered, and will be taken by surprise when Vader uses force lightning.

Does this sound reasonable?

[Stark]

Well call me nuts, but I'd say the fact he doesn't do that suggests it wouldn't work as you describe.

[Mr Bean]

Well call me nuts, but I'd say the fact he doesn't do that suggests it wouldn't work as you describe.

The Emperor needs him weak prehaps and supress such thoughts? Or makes sure Vadar is very busy by default?

Or prehaps Vadar just is always running around and has never had the time to get rebuilt.

[Ar-Adunakhor]

A short story in one of the books that was released to promote RotS mentions Vader ordering people to reclone Jango Fett as attrition replacements for the Imperial Army.

First, though I have not read what you are citing, it sounds as if he means make more full-body clones to replace troop losses, not cloning people for parts.


But let's assume that is what he means.

If it is so easy to butcher clone parts and graft them onto yourself, then why exactly do other Sith Lords who have had bodily damage not avail themselves of the procedure? They obviously have no morals or scruples against using people, yet continue to have cybernetic implants. Why? The only way I see that happening is if there were no way to do it, or severe complications that outweigh the benefits.

Not only that, but it is natural to assume even Jedi or wealthy citizens would want cloned replacement parts. If it is possible to grow an entire human, why would it be so hard to grow specific limbs and such? Shit, here on earth scientists have been making astounding leaps in growing completely new livers and kidneys. Imagine what they could do with Star Wars tech.


As I see it, there could be a *lot* of reasons, but here are three that come to me off the top of my head:

1. The risk was too great, and he could not risk being helpless and insensate for a dozen hours, plus however long it would take to recover from the massive trauma of having nearly his entire body replaced. The man had enemies. Add that into the risk he is running by doing this in complete secrecy. If I was Palpatine and discovered my apprentice had suddenly run off and gotten his limbs completely replaced in total secrecy, I would want a *very* good reason why.

2. As mentioned in some EU (Dark Empire? fuzzy memory) cloned bodies for Palpatine were more suceptable to the ravages of the Dark Side. Therefore, it could be that it would not be worth the trauma sustained in removal of the cybernetics and grafting of new limbs. Especially if he would need replacement limbs grafted on every few years.

3. He was already using the force to repair the damage, but could not quite achieve the power to make the healing permanant. Perhaps he thought that he would be able to get that kind of power in time. I mean, it is not like Dark Side users go, "Oh shit, you know, I can't do this... it must mean I will never be able to. Might as well give up." They generally just plunge deeper into the power to get what they want.[/quote]

[Sharpshooter]

Maybe there's some kind of problem encountered with trying to replace a severed limb with a biological replacement after so much time has passed. If the procedure isn't done in a matter of hours to days after the limb is lost, perhaps the brain loses the ability to recognise that kind of input, and any kind of grafting will be impossible.

Isn't there also the problem of cloning time? If I remember correctly, the fastest they were able to get clones and such up and running without defect was a year from conception to release, and they were only able to cut that down after Thrawn discovered the effect Ysalamiri had on the process.

[Adrian Laguna]

-snip-

It would be a lot easier to simply clone missing limbs or organs rather than an entire person who will be killed for parts.

[Meest]

Maybe cybernetic parts are just better, not Force wise but function wise.

[Vympel]

The Emperor needs him weak prehaps and supress such thoughts? Or makes sure Vadar is very busy by default?

No, no no. There is plentiful evidence from RotS, RotS novel, and RotS VD that the Emperor sought no such thing. He wanted Vader more powerful than him, it's obvious as all hell.

Or prehaps Vadar just is always running around and has never had the time to get rebuilt.

That's silly- "sorry, heaps busy, no time to be fully healthy and mobile." It's obvious that the reason it's not done is because it can't be done.

[Tychu]

Well call me nuts, but I'd say the fact he doesn't do that suggests it wouldn't work as you describe.

The Emperor needs him weak prehaps and supress such thoughts? Or makes sure Vadar is very busy by default?

Or prehaps Vadar just is always running around and has never had the time to get rebuilt.

actually its documented in many sources including the ultamate Vader Guide that Vader had indeed tried to heal himself with the force in his early days as Vader and gave up. Meaning he tried to heal himself and im sure any way possible it just didnt work and then he gave up eventually

[Ender]

That whole "being on fire" thing would pretty much damage most of the nerve endings and such you would need to attach the cloned parts to.

[Darth Wong]

It's possible that the cloned tissue would lack whatever special properties are necessary for a Force user, so wholesale replacement of his various ruined parts with clean cloned versions would actually make him weaker in the Force.

[Antares]

It's possible that the cloned tissue would lack whatever special properties are necessary for a Force user, so wholesale replacement of his various ruined parts with clean cloned versions would actually make him weaker in the Force.

But isn't the same true for mechanic parts?
I mean after some time the clone parts would totally be merged with the
body and after some years of constant body regeneration you couldn't even
tell that they were cloned parts.
I would suspect, that cloned parts may make him weaker at start.
However, this should change over time for the better.

Well, just some thoughts.

[Tiriol]

It's possible that the cloned tissue would lack whatever special properties are necessary for a Force user, so wholesale replacement of his various ruined parts with clean cloned versions would actually make him weaker in the Force.

But isn't the same true for mechanic parts?
I mean after some time the clone parts would totally be merged with the
body and after some years of constant body regeneration you couldn't even
tell that they were cloned parts.
I would suspect, that cloned parts may make him weaker at start.
However, this should change over time for the better.

Well, just some thoughts.

Spoilers below.
In this thread it was revealed that Lord Sidious believed that Vader hadn't actually been weakened - at least not much - in that duel on Mustafar, but rather he now had huge self-confidence problems which got in the way of using his powers to their full potential.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Also (As has been said) Considering the force chaos Luuke was causing to Luke and Leia in Dark force rising, even if cloned body-parts may not have the full effect of a force using clone, I'd bet good money on it royally fucking up a force user.
(If normal bodyparts can conflict with an immune system, maybe the midichlorians could?)

After all, if you could really do something like this, why Shouldn't Palpatine Clone himself Yoda and Windu bodyparts thus becoming young and gaining Mace's shaterpoint ability

[Sidewinder]

Maybe there's some kind of problem encountered with trying to replace a severed limb with a biological replacement after so much time has passed.

In a recent 'Star Wars' magazine article on the Mandalorians, Boba Fett is stated to have gone to Kamino to order a clone replacement for the leg he lost due to his time in the Sarlacc. He expresses similar plans for the money he earned from a bounty in one of the short stories-- I can't remember which anthology it's in-- that ends with him and a senior citizen Han Solo in a Mexican standoff.

[NecronLord]

No, no no. There is plentiful evidence from RotS, RotS novel, and RotS VD that the Emperor sought no such thing. He wanted Vader more powerful than him, it's obvious as all hell.

Dark Lord spoilers: Sidious changed his mind on this issue when he decided that it was indeed possible for him to gain eternal life. He intended to use Vader and disgard him in favour of someone else, he had no real reason beyond sentiment for an apprentice any more. I shall now quote:

More important, by the time Vader was capable of becoming a threat to his Mastery, Sidious would be fully conversant with the secrets Plagueis had spent a lifetime seeking - the power of life over death. There would be no need to fear Vader. No real reason to have an apprentice, except to honor the tradition Darth Bane had ressurected a millennium earlier.
The ancient Sith had been utter fools to believe that power could be shared by thousands.
The power of the dark side should be shared only by two; one to embody it, the other to crave it.
Vader's transformation meant that Sidious, too, was able to focus once more on important matters. With Vader in his place, Sidious could now devote himself to intensifying his authority over the Senate and the outlying star sysetems, and to rooting out and vanquishing any who posed a threat to the Empire.
He had brought peave to the galaxy. Now he meant to rule it as he saw fit - with a hand as strong and durable as one of Vader's prostheses. Crushing any opponents who rose up. Instilling fear in any who thought to obsrtuct or thwart him.
Vader would prove to be a powerful apprentice, at least until a more suitable one was found.

[Elfdart]

Since they used a metal hand on Luke instead of a cloned one, maybe cloned body parts don't work all that well. Another thing to consider is that maybe Vader doesn't really want to go back to being Anakin, in mind or body. Even if he could get physically repaired to be just like he was before Obi-Wan cut him up, what's the point? Padme is dead, as are most of his friends and associates before he turned. He probably wants to be in the mask.

[Kurgan]

Saying it won't "work" to cannibalize one of Jango's clones to fix Vader is all well and good. But why not take some material from Vader HIMSELF and create the replacement parts? There's nothing that says you can't clone a Jedi, or that said clone would "lack" force abilities. And it wouldn't need to cause some weird "force chaos"... just use a slower Kaminoean type method. So it might take 10 years to grown the limbs he needed, but so what... by the time of the classic trilogy he could be completely repaired!


Oops!

Good luck with the SOD explanations... none of them seem too satisfactory, except the one that says the cybernetics are actually superior to cloned parts.

[Solauren]

Kurgan, please pay more attention

We WERE talking about cloning Vader parts.

We have seen clone Jedi, we know the clone can generally use the Force.

We're debating the feasibly of it in Vader's case.

[Lord Pounder]

If I was Palpatine I'd let Vader go ahead and try every option open to him, but sabotage every idea that looks like succeesing. If Vader is concentrating more on healing and finding methods of becoming his old self he's not gonna be planning on taking over the show.

[Kurgan]

Kurgan, please pay more attention

We WERE talking about cloning Vader parts.

We have seen clone Jedi, we know the clone can generally use the Force.

We're debating the feasibly of it in Vader's case.

Ok then, I agree with you gents saying he could just clone himself an arm.

[Glimmervoid]

A short story in one of the books that was released to promote RotS mentions Vader ordering people to reclone Jango Fett as attrition replacements for the Imperial Army. I'm wondering why Vader doesn't do the following to repair his damaged body:

Crazy theory. Assuming for a moment that cloned limbs were possible and would not diminished his force ability (for the sack or argument) maybe it was a self imposed penance for the death (at what he thinks of as his hands) of Padmé Amidala and his child.

[Kurgan]

Interesting idea! And if I were SS, I'd say "this will be forwarded to Lucas."

[Vympel]

Dark Lord spoilers: Sidious changed his mind on this issue when he decided that it was indeed possible for him to gain eternal life. He intended to use Vader and disgard him in favour of someone else, he had no real reason beyond sentiment for an apprentice any more. I shall now quote:

More important, by the time Vader was capable of becoming a threat to his Mastery, Sidious would be fully conversant with the secrets Plagueis had spent a lifetime seeking - the power of life over death. There would be no need to fear Vader. No real reason to have an apprentice, except to honor the tradition Darth Bane had ressurected a millennium earlier.
The ancient Sith had been utter fools to believe that power could be shared by thousands.
The power of the dark side should be shared only by two; one to embody it, the other to crave it.
Vader's transformation meant that Sidious, too, was able to focus once more on important matters. With Vader in his place, Sidious could now devote himself to intensifying his authority over the Senate and the outlying star sysetems, and to rooting out and vanquishing any who posed a threat to the Empire.
He had brought peave to the galaxy. Now he meant to rule it as he saw fit - with a hand as strong and durable as one of Vader's prostheses. Crushing any opponents who rose up. Instilling fear in any who thought to obsrtuct or thwart him.
Vader would prove to be a powerful apprentice, at least until a more suitable one was found.

That doesn't contradict the film. In fact, the quote fully admits that Vader can be a threat to Sidious' mastery.

[Aquatain]

Maybe vaders body would reject the cloned parts because of lack of mediclorins in them.