Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[Borgholio]

I don't think it matters how the film looks after days of review and consideration, because all fiction looks dumb when you start thinking rationally about it.

The only thing that matters is whether the audience feels that rush when they are walking OUT of the movie for the first time. That's the high that justifies the cost, not whether nerdly and film critic analysis discovers a low number of flaws.

Hell I feel a rush just watching the fucking trailer. For better or worse later on, right now...this movie is going to hit people like a Mack truck. JJ may have done with SW what he did with ST...only better.

[ray245]

I don't think it matters how the film looks after days of review and consideration, because all fiction looks dumb when you start thinking rationally about it.

The only thing that matters is whether the audience feels that rush when they are walking OUT of the movie for the first time. That's the high that justifies the cost, not whether nerdly and film critic analysis discovers a low number of flaws.

How people rationalise a movie AFTER they have calmed down is usually a better gauge as to whether the movie is a classics. Excellent movies offers you some sort of entertainment despite countless attempts at rewatching it.

I think part of the reason why ST films under Abrams was increasingly seen as bad by the fanbase is because they are the people who are spending time rewatching the same shit over and over again. I think Abrams is good at making a film that feels enjoyable on your very first attempt at watching it, but if you are a fan who is most likely to rewatch it countless times, then it is generally something that doesn't really hold up well.

I enjoyed all the previous Star Wars films because it offers me something fun to think about after watching it for a few times. The universe Lucas built up is really fun and interesting, and opens up a lot of things to discuss with. Whereas Abrams' film doesn't really offer the viewers that much stuff to talk about. It feels like something you are meant to forget after a while.

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't think it matters how the film looks after days of review and consideration, because all fiction looks dumb when you start thinking rationally about it.

The only thing that matters is whether the audience feels that rush when they are walking OUT of the movie for the first time. That's the high that justifies the cost, not whether nerdly and film critic analysis discovers a low number of flaws.

How people rationalise a movie AFTER they have calmed down is usually a better gauge as to whether the movie is a classics. Excellent movies offers you some sort of entertainment despite countless attempts at rewatching it.

True.

I think part of the reason why ST films under Abrams was increasingly seen as bad by the fanbase is because they are the people who are spending time rewatching the same shit over and over again. I think Abrams is good at making a film that feels enjoyable on your very first attempt at watching it, but if you are a fan who is most likely to rewatch it countless times, then it is generally something that doesn't really hold up well.

And I think a lot of people hated Abrams' films automatically because they were different from the originals.

I enjoyed all the previous Star Wars films because it offers me something fun to think about after watching it for a few times. The universe Lucas built up is really fun and interesting, and opens up a lot of things to discuss with. Whereas Abrams' film doesn't really offer the viewers that much stuff to talk about. It feels like something you are meant to forget after a while.

Love how you're talking about what Abrams' Star Wars film is like before you've even seen it. You're not even making a pretence of having an open mind or making your decisions based on observation rather than prejudice, huh?

[ray245]

Love how you're talking about what Abrams' Star Wars film is like before you've even seen it. You're not even making a pretence of having an open mind or making your decisions based on observation rather than prejudice, huh?

I'm not talking about his Star Wars movie. I'm talking about all his previous films, which felt empty and rather hollow to me. JJ's ST film, DESPITE the good critical review and popular acclaim, did not kick start the Star Trek franchise the way the studios wanted it. Same could be said about Super 8, which sort of becomes pointless once you knew the whole plot.

[The Romulan Republic]

Eh...

Abrams' first Star Trek film had some issues with implausibility in the plot and Kirk being an unlikeable jackass, but other than that it was mostly good, I thought. It wasn't a brilliant masterpiece, but their was nothing really wrong with it, at least for the most part. And I don't know how much of its flaws you can blame on Abrams, since it was mainly script issues and he was the director, not the writer. Which gives me hope for Star Wars, since it has different writers.

Into Darkness dropped the ball though, partly because it was too much a rehash of old stuff rather than taking advantage of the reboot to do something new.

Edit: That said, I think its true that Abrams' Star Trek films weren't particularly thought-inspiring.

[Adam Reynolds]

I don't think it matters how the film looks after days of review and consideration, because all fiction looks dumb when you start thinking rationally about it.

The only thing that matters is whether the audience feels that rush when they are walking OUT of the movie for the first time. That's the high that justifies the cost, not whether nerdly and film critic analysis discovers a low number of flaws.

So why were you involved in these debates? The whole point is to enjoy the analysis that you can do on the interesting settings. Abrams Trek films lack this to the same degree as a lot of other series.

Though part of that is that the universe of Star Trek lacks the same level of depth of Star Wars. When it comes down to it, Star Trek doesn't feel real in the same fashion as Star Wars because of the nature of the setting of one for a serial TV series. That isn't that the original Star Trek is bad, but that it is limiting in a way that the much larger production of Star Wars isn't.

Abrams' first Star Trek film had some issues with implausibility in the plot and Kirk being an unlikeable jackass, but other than that it was mostly good, I thought. It wasn't a brilliant masterpiece, but their was nothing really wrong with it, at least for the most part. And I don't know how much of its flaws you can blame on Abrams, since it was mainly script issues and he was the director, not the writer. Which gives me hope for Star Wars, since it has different writers.

Into Darkness dropped the ball though, partly because it was too much a rehash of old stuff rather than taking advantage of the reboot to do something new.

Edit: That said, I think its true that Abrams' Star Trek films weren't particularly thought-inspiring.

I think part of the problem was that Abrams didn't like Star Trek all that much. He didn't really care for the philosophy that it traditionally advocates(which is why we never see much of it). He actually admitted as much in interviews. On the other hand, he stated that he has always loved Star Wars.

Didn't a lot of people complain that his Star Trek movies were basically Star Wars ? Now that he actually is making Star Wars, it leaves them less to complain about.

When it comes down to it, there are going to be those who will stay OT purists or who stay Lucas purists. There are also going to be those who preferred the old EU out of nostalgia. Some consider that more of their idea of Star Wars than the films. You can't please everyone with something like this. So the best thing to do is just to make the best movie that you can and leave it at that.

[ray245]

Eh...

Abrams' first Star Trek film had some issues with implausibility in the plot and Kirk being an unlikeable jackass, but other than that it was mostly good, I thought. It wasn't a brilliant masterpiece, but their was nothing really wrong with it, at least for the most part. And I don't know how much of its flaws you can blame on Abrams, since it was mainly script issues and he was the director, not the writer. Which gives me hope for Star Wars, since it has different writers.

Into Darkness dropped the ball though, partly because it was too much a rehash of old stuff rather than taking advantage of the reboot to do something new.

Edit: That said, I think its true that Abrams' Star Trek films weren't particularly thought-inspiring.

That won't be a problem if his favourite project, super 8 did not suffer from the same problem of not being too thought-inspiring. It tries to copy E.T. without being able to grasp the reason why people like it do much over the years.

I think there will be endless debates and discussions about the new Star Wars film, but how often does that make people want to go back and re watch it for the sake of enjoying it? None of JJ movies make me want to enjoy them again.

A good Star Wars movie should be able to vastly expand the scope of discussions. The prequels vastly expanded on the things we could talk about no matter how disliked it was among certain circles.

[Gandalf]

I don't think it matters how the film looks after days of review and consideration, because all fiction looks dumb when you start thinking rationally about it.

The only thing that matters is whether the audience feels that rush when they are walking OUT of the movie for the first time. That's the high that justifies the cost, not whether nerdly and film critic analysis discovers a low number of flaws.

I disagree. While the rush you mention certainly justifies the cinema ticket, how the film stands up to further thought justifies whether I rent or purchase it when it comes out on home media.

[applejack]

Their doesn't appear to be anything small about the super weapon in The Force Awakens, if its that giant Death Star look-alike on the poster.

Apparently, it's the ice planet all the leaks have been talking about.

[Terralthra]

Duel of the Fates is pretty good. That's probably the most memorable major piece from the PT, though not the only one I liked.

The music from the duel on Mustafar is one of my favorite pieces from the PT. Fast-paced, epic, with callbacks to Anakin's theme, the Force theme, a bit of Duel of the Fates, and the choral bit from Darth Vader/Luke's duel on the Death Star II.

[Sgt_Artyom]

Tickets for this movie are already sale, holy crap. I've got to say they're doing a really good job building hype for the new movie, even more so that the full trailer is out.

[Joun_Lord]

I think part of the problem was that Abrams didn't like Star Trek all that much. He didn't really care for the philosophy that it traditionally advocates(which is why we never see much of it). He actually admitted as much in interviews. On the other hand, he stated that he has always loved Star Wars.

He likes half of Star Wars and is a massive fanboy of the half he likes. Neither are too inspiring.

Someone who is pretty much the master of Star Wars but doesn't seem to like half of it, movies that are loved by millions of people who aren't old farts who think anything new sucks or don't let Red Letter Media and the internet think for them, will not respect the franchise. He will shit on anything he don't like Original or Prequel.

Being a fanboy he will want to inject his own shit into Star Wars rather then continuing the tale in a logical manner or will try to keep it so much of the same it will wind up boring. Fanboys (and girls) all have their own ideas of what Star Wars should be, have their own fan fics and head canons that don't belong in Star Wars proper. I'm a fanboy who loves (at times) Star Wars but I shouldn't write for it because I'd wind up having Stormtroopers armed with lightsabers fight blatantly evil Rebel scum who look like Taliban wannabes lead by corrupt and corpulent Republic Senators who look like the People Eater from Fury Road.

Of course I kinda like the Empire better (they look cooler though I don't think they were actually the good guys, just had some good people and some good ideas) and think the Republic was a decayed mess with the Senators who support the Rebellion a bunch of greedy fucks who only rebel because the tax payer plundering ended under Palpy's watch and the Rebels are a bunch of terrorists.

Thats my head canon and while it might have some bits derived from actual canon its not actual canon and it shouldn't be actual canon. Whatever crap JJ LENS FLARE OMG MY EYES ARE MELTING WHHY WHY Abrams shat out as a pimply teenaged nerd should be no more canon then my crap.

Now I trust Disney will try to reign in his excesses and will try to stop him from wiping the Prequels from canon, I don't trust Abrams though fan or no fan.

[Lord Revan]

I think part of the problem was that Abrams didn't like Star Trek all that much. He didn't really care for the philosophy that it traditionally advocates(which is why we never see much of it). He actually admitted as much in interviews. On the other hand, he stated that he has always loved Star Wars.

He likes half of Star Wars and is a massive fanboy of the half he likes. Neither are too inspiring.

Someone who is pretty much the master of Star Wars but doesn't seem to like half of it, movies that are loved by millions of people who aren't old farts who think anything new sucks or don't let Red Letter Media and the internet think for them, will not respect the franchise. He will shit on anything he don't like Original or Prequel.

Being a fanboy he will want to inject his own shit into Star Wars rather then continuing the tale in a logical manner or will try to keep it so much of the same it will wind up boring. Fanboys (and girls) all have their own ideas of what Star Wars should be, have their own fan fics and head canons that don't belong in Star Wars proper. I'm a fanboy who loves (at times) Star Wars but I shouldn't write for it because I'd wind up having Stormtroopers armed with lightsabers fight blatantly evil Rebel scum who look like Taliban wannabes lead by corrupt and corpulent Republic Senators who look like the People Eater from Fury Road.

Of course I kinda like the Empire better (they look cooler though I don't think they were actually the good guys, just had some good people and some good ideas) and think the Republic was a decayed mess with the Senators who support the Rebellion a bunch of greedy fucks who only rebel because the tax payer plundering ended under Palpy's watch and the Rebels are a bunch of terrorists.

Thats my head canon and while it might have some bits derived from actual canon its not actual canon and it shouldn't be actual canon. Whatever crap JJ LENS FLARE OMG MY EYES ARE MELTING WHHY WHY Abrams shat out as a pimply teenaged nerd should be no more canon then my crap.

Now I trust Disney will try to reign in his excesses and will try to stop him from wiping the Prequels from canon, I don't trust Abrams though fan or no fan.

that said he's not the only writer and as much as some people hate the PT, The Clone Wars and Rebels they were all reasonbly successful so it's not like Star Trek that was pretty much dead and buried when Abrams got his hands on it.

Kind of like how MCU directors can sort of have their own style for their films but the primary characteristics for the heroes and villains remain semi-consistent thru out the whole series.

[RogueIce]

Duel of the Fates is pretty good. That's probably the most memorable major piece from the PT, though not the only one I liked.

The music from the duel on Mustafar is one of my favorite pieces from the PT. Fast-paced, epic, with callbacks to Anakin's theme, the Force theme, a bit of Duel of the Fates, and the choral bit from Darth Vader/Luke's duel on the Death Star II.

I missed that last bit, which is a shame because I love it the most. Can you remember about where it played?

On the subject of Prequel music, I though Across the Stars was pretty awesome (blah blah Anakin/Padme romance scenes, but the music was good) and the Order 66 music was amazing. On a smaller note, Shmi's theme from TPM was also very good and the best part about the Episode 1 Ultimate Edition soundtrack is having that on CD.

[Adam Reynolds]

He likes half of Star Wars and is a massive fanboy of the half he likes. Neither are too inspiring.

Someone who is pretty much the master of Star Wars but doesn't seem to like half of it, movies that are loved by millions of people who aren't old farts who think anything new sucks or don't let Red Letter Media and the internet think for them, will not respect the franchise. He will shit on anything he don't like Original or Prequel.

He is no the master of Star Wars. He is the director of the first movie in the series. The current master of Star Wars is Kathleen Kennedy. Not Abrams. He is not even set to be involved in the series at any point after the The Force Awakens. I never say any indication that Abrams has said anything about RLM. Several people he as worked with have, but he personally had not. Smart move on his part considering his current employment.

Being a fanboy he will want to inject his own shit into Star Wars rather then continuing the tale in a logical manner or will try to keep it so much of the same it will wind up boring. Fanboys (and girls) all have their own ideas of what Star Wars should be, have their own fan fics and head canons that don't belong in Star Wars proper. I'm a fanboy who loves (at times) Star Wars but I shouldn't write for it because I'd wind up having Stormtroopers armed with lightsabers fight blatantly evil Rebel scum who look like Taliban wannabes lead by corrupt and corpulent Republic Senators who look like the People Eater from Fury Road.

Of course I kinda like the Empire better (they look cooler though I don't think they were actually the good guys, just had some good people and some good ideas) and think the Republic was a decayed mess with the Senators who support the Rebellion a bunch of greedy fucks who only rebel because the tax payer plundering ended under Palpy's watch and the Rebels are a bunch of terrorists.

As has already been shown in this thread, you have a warped perspective of what Star Wars is. There is no indication that JJ Abrams does as well. At least not to the same degree as you. Clearly your ideas are based on what is in your head rather than what the movies actually show us. One thing that can be said about Abrams, as was noted by Anthony Daniels, is that he didn't come in with his absolute idea of what the movie should be. He was willing to listen to others that told him his ideas weren't very good. The lack of this dissenting opinion was a problem in the PT. I'm not saying that in the context of the PT being horrible, but it was not as good as it could have been. A major reason for that is that Lucas seems to have largely just done whatever he wanted without anyone that would have seriously opposed some of the worse ideas.

As for the Republic, how much of that corruption is due to Palpatine himself? And the "greedy fucks" as you put it are the ones who built the Death Star. Not those that destroyed it. Bail Organa risked everything to save Yoda and Obi-Wan. That doesn't seem very greedy. Have you seriously watched these movies?

Personally I've never understood why people thought the Empire looked cooler. I've always been a fan of the X-wing over the TIE fighter. Those in the new movie look more sleek and thus even cooler. Though we are seeing a stormtrooper with a lightsaber. So there is that.

[Joun_Lord]

that said he's not the only writer and as much as some people hate the PT, The Clone Wars and Rebels they were all reasonbly successful so it's not like Star Trek that was pretty much dead and buried when Abrams got his hands on it.

Kind of like how MCU directors can sort of have their own style for their films but the primary characteristics for the heroes and villains remain semi-consistent thru out the whole series.

The fact he isn't the only writer can hopefully help. One of the problems with Lucas, and this ain't Lucas bashing, is sometimes he let his ideas go too far and didn't have anyone to rein them in.

As for the MCU, their is (atleast until recently with the shake-up over the heads of the studio or some shit with MS reporting to Disney directly instead of Marvel) a pretty tight leash on the movies. Directors and writers can have their own style but it has to conform to the Marvel vision. One of the reasons Edgar Wright apparently left Ant-Man was he didn't have enough creative control.

He is no the master of Star Wars. He is the director of the first movie in the series. The current master of Star Wars is Kathleen Kennedy. Not Abrams. He is not even set to be involved in the series at any point after the The Force Awakens. I never say any indication that Abrams has said anything about RLM. Several people he as worked with have, but he personally had not. Smart move on his part considering his current employment.

Kennedy is the master of Lucasfilms and Abrams's boss but isn't directly working in the trenches on Star Wars. Abrams is supposed to be shaping the entire Sequel Trilogy, producing whats canon and all that. Even if he ain't involved with the series after TFA his impact will be felt. And he didn't mention RLM as that was a dig at fatty nerds who praise Red Letter Media's Prequel videos as the be all end all on why they hate the Prequels because they are moronic sheep who can't think for themselves and think nitpicks make a bad movie.

As has already been shown in this thread, you have a warped perspective of what Star Wars is. There is no indication that JJ Abrams does as well. At least not to the same degree as you. Clearly your ideas are based on what is in your head rather than what the movies actually show us. One thing that can be said about Abrams, as was noted by Anthony Daniels, is that he didn't come in with his absolute idea of what the movie should be. He was willing to listen to others that told him his ideas weren't very good. The lack of this dissenting opinion was a problem in the PT. I'm not saying that in the context of the PT being horrible, but it was not as good as it could have been. A major reason for that is that Lucas seems to have largely just done whatever he wanted without anyone that would have seriously opposed some of the worse ideas.

Of course I have a warped perspective, I'm a fanboy with a suit of Stormtrooper behind me staring at me on a frame made from a closet door and a milk jug. Most hardcore fans of Star Wars do. I am warped because I see the Empire and Rebels as equally bad but I've admit that is a probably inaccurate view. Of course I'm also just some biased asshole on the tuberweb and not making Star Wars movies.........yet.

Abrams is warped in his pure OT fanboyism to the point he's spouting bullshit like there was only one shot fired in the Han and Greedo meeting, no midichlorians, and he only considers the OT canon .

As for the Republic, how much of that corruption is due to Palpatine himself? And the "greedy fucks" as you put it are the ones who built the Death Star. Not those that destroyed it. Bail Organa risked everything to save Yoda and Obi-Wan. That doesn't seem very greedy. Have you seriously watched these movies?

The Republic seemed to have problems well before Palpatine came to power (especially in the old EU) and mostly Palpatine seemed to be exploiting existing problems. The greedy fucks weren't the CIS members (though I guess they are greedy fucks too) but the Senators zipping around in fancy hover-cars (the stolen hovercars in 2 and Bail's car) and were committed against funding a military even when the Republic threatened to fracture. And they weren't the ones to blow up the Death Star. The stolen children of Anakin and a bunch of plucky young heroes and a Wookiee that didn't even rate a medal blew it up. Bail risked his life to save to fellow conspirators who tried murdering a politician and a guy for practicing the wrong religion and did murder a crap-ton of soldiers. Conspirators who kidnapped a woman and then stole her kids after leaving the father dismembered and set on fire.

Now alot of that is a stretch on flimsy evidence (except the whole stealing children, murdering soldiers, dismembering a dude, and attempted religiously motivated murder) but like I said though, I'm biased so I will interpret different things differently then Rebel Scum lovers such as yourself, you damn dirty Rebel! Go back to Endor and live with the Wookiees! I dislike the Republic (and Republicans and replicators), I dislike its rot that allowed slavery and misery, worlds to be invaded and babies practically kidnapped (or actually depending on the source though thankfully such sources are probably long since non-canon) to be raised by a monastic order of warriors who don't give a shit about anyone and don't answer to anyone.

Personally I've never understood why people thought the Empire looked cooler. I've always been a fan of the X-wing over the TIE fighter. Those in the new movie look more sleek and thus even cooler. Though we are seeing a stormtrooper with a lightsaber. So there is that.

I like the sleeker designs of the Empire and Stormtrooper armor is just badass. Maybe if the Rebels field stuff other then lumpy starships, space planes, and black vests and doofy helmets I'd like them better. And I dunno about the new shit being sleeker. The helmet of the FO trooper, yeah, but the armor just seems to have way too much extra shit. I like the helmet but kinda meh towards the armor except the Phasma version.

And the stormtrooper isn't in armor. It doesn't count towards my teenage masturbatory fantasy of Stormtroopers wielding saber if they ain't in armor!

[Prometheus Unbound]

But rlm was right.

[TK-984]

Abrams is warped in his pure OT fanboyism to the point he's spouting bullshit like there was only one shot fired in the Han and Greedo meeting, no midichlorians, and he only considers the OT canon .

As far as the "no midichlorians," does the omission of midichlorians from Episodes 4,5, & 6 mean that no midichlorians exist in the GFFA? When Abrams says “The only real mandate we had was what delights us. We treated the films, especially 4, 5, and 6, we treated those as canon.” does that mean he considers the PT not canon? I can't watch the video in regards to Han shooting Greedo first (I'm in China), but come on bud, who cares. You seem to be doing the exact thing that you criticize RLM of doing -- nitpicking. I'm going to reserve my judgement until I actually watch the film.

To be honest, if anyone is deluded into weird fanboyism, it's you. JJ's comments have all been pretty reasoned and non-hyperbolic.

[ray245]

Given that JJ has shown himself to be the kind of fan that wanted to insert a dead Jar Jar in TFA just to show off to his peers how much of a "fan" he is, I highly doubt this is the case.

[Joun_Lord]

As far as the "no midichlorians," does the omission of midichlorians from Episodes 4,5, & 6 mean that no midichlorians exist in the GFFA? When Abrams says “The only real mandate we had was what delights us. We treated the films, especially 4, 5, and 6, we treated those as canon.” does that mean he considers the PT not canon? I can't watch the video in regards to Han shooting Greedo first (I'm in China), but come on bud, who cares. You seem to be doing the exact thing that you criticize RLM of doing -- nitpicking. I'm going to reserve my judgement until I actually watch the film.

To be honest, if anyone is deluded into weird fanboyism, it's you. JJ's comments have all been pretty reasoned and non-hyperbolic.

The midichlorians being shat upon is part of the shitting upon of the PT. Treating the PT as less canon shows as disregard for half the series. Greedo shooting first is another of those much maligned Lucas moves OT fanboys whine about.

This isn't nitpicking (probably) like Plinkett whining about what time a character shows up to be a main character and shit, its whining about a person with great creative control of a beloved series who is apparently only a fan of a very small section of the series (the unedited original trilogy) and actively dislikes the others half. He's making a movie that has to build upon the shit set in the PT and the SE OT and is more likely to shit on things or disregard because he don't like it.

And I have you know my fanboyism is deluded or weird, its angry and spiteful.

[Terralthra]

Duel of the Fates is pretty good. That's probably the most memorable major piece from the PT, though not the only one I liked.

The music from the duel on Mustafar is one of my favorite pieces from the PT. Fast-paced, epic, with callbacks to Anakin's theme, the Force theme, a bit of Duel of the Fates, and the choral bit from Darth Vader/Luke's duel on the Death Star II.

I missed that last bit, which is a shame because I love it the most. Can you remember about where it played?

It's not the final choral bit (when Luke loses his control and attacks in anger), but the low rendition of the Force theme [Binary Sunset] ("I feel the good in you...the conflict."). Just before the climax of the duel on Mustafar, as Obi-Wan admits, "I have failed you, Anakin. I have failed you," and the ensuing dialog, the low brass and male voices do that same muted harmonic of that theme. It's different than the higher major key rendition of the Force theme that plays at counterpoint with the Duel of the Fates vocals when Anakin/Obi-Wan force push each other earlier in the control room.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Bail risked his life to save to fellow conspirators who tried murdering a politician and a guy for practicing the wrong religion and did murder a crap-ton of soldiers. Conspirators who kidnapped a woman and then stole her kids after leaving the father dismembered and set on fire.

Again, it needs to be asked of you, did you even watch the movies?

Reducing the Jedi/Sith battle to "religiously motivated murder" is cute, but it's just a meaningless reductio ad absurdum. Clearly, as anyone with half a brain who has seen these movies can tell you, there is slightly more to the Force than just a religious following. A lot of the rest of your points are similarly over-simplified, and some just outright inaccurate.

I mean, I agree with you on the Empire having a cooler aesthetic, but so did the Nazis, so I don't come up with bizarre distortions and deliberate misinterpretations to try and diminish the Allies in comparison.

[Vympel]

Some shots I took of the trailer:

The wrecked octuple turret of an ISD2:



Confirmation that the First Order TIEs have rear-firing lasers:

[Lagmonster]

I don't think it matters how the film looks after days of review and consideration, because all fiction looks dumb when you start thinking rationally about it.

The only thing that matters is whether the audience feels that rush when they are walking OUT of the movie for the first time. That's the high that justifies the cost, not whether nerdly and film critic analysis discovers a low number of flaws.

I disagree. While the rush you mention certainly justifies the cinema ticket, how the film stands up to further thought justifies whether I rent or purchase it when it comes out on home media.

How people rationalise a movie AFTER they have calmed down is usually a better gauge as to whether the movie is a classics. Excellent movies offers you some sort of entertainment despite countless attempts at re-watching it.

And both of those perspectives are cool, and totally understandable. I just believe that it doesn't have to be an "excellent" movie or a classic movie, as long as it can be an inspiring movie. It has to make a generation of kids to run around in playgrounds making lightsaber noises, but it has forty years of iconic material to stand on, so it doesn't actually have to deliver that much to get there.

So why were you involved in these debates? The whole point is to enjoy the analysis that you can do on the interesting settings.

Besides the fact that I was never a serious vs. debater, it's still just a fun mental exercise that you really don't need to do in order to be a fan. If you can't comfortably separate that from the experience of just letting yourself be taken into a story, I'll probably think of you as the kind of person who tries to determine the exact shade of someone's hair dye colour while you're having sex with them.

[Elfdart]

Judging from the new version of the Han & Leia cue at 1:04, it's almost certain Solo is a goner.

Shit.