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wautd wrote: ↑2022-06-10 09:35am

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2022-06-09 03:09am They had already explained that the base had no shield, relying instead on people being too scared to dare attack it.

That had literally my eyes rolling. It's just downright stupid and illogical. Talk about lazy writing.

Or as has been observed elsewhere, the Empire isn't particularly well run in a lot of places, and that's why they lost in the end.

While the rank and file public service and military are competent enough, it seems the closer one is to the Emperor, or one of his little indulgences, the less general care is taken. Wizard HQ had no protection, the first Death Star had no real protection against starfighters, and so on.

It appears to be overconfidence on that part of people involved with high-level pet projects.

Case in point - one of Tarkins officers even said to him 'Sir, we've analyzed the attack and THERE IS A DANGER', and he suggested evacuation in a way that wouldn't sound subversive.

Kenobi only got into the Inquisitors base because he had someone on the inside.


Actually, that appears to be a common theme with Star Wars 'Bad Guy' bases. Near unbeatable defenses, horrible internal security.

Solauren wrote: ↑2022-06-11 01:20pm It appears to be overconfidence on that part of people involved with high-level pet projects.

Case in point - one of Tarkins officers even said to him 'Sir, we've analyzed the attack and THERE IS A DANGER', and he suggested evacuation in a way that wouldn't sound subversive.

Kenobi only got into the Inquisitors base because he had someone on the inside.


Actually, that appears to be a common theme with Star Wars 'Bad Guy' bases. Near unbeatable defenses, horrible internal security.

It kind of makes sense seeing as the Galactic Empire military seemed to value loyalty over competence so you get officers who are yes-men (probably with little or no competence) or overconfident due to thinking they can't fail due to being having support of the Throne and such there's probably little or no critical thinking about the flaws of Imperial Installations.

Solauren wrote: ↑2022-06-11 01:20pmKenobi only got into the Inquisitors base because he had someone on the inside.

And she only got onto the base because she threatened to tell the Grand Inquisitor about the officer who was suspicious of her. He was competent but scared about what would happen to him if he inconvenienced someone important. Fear won.

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2022-06-12 01:54am

Solauren wrote: ↑2022-06-11 01:20pmKenobi only got into the Inquisitors base because he had someone on the inside.

And she only got onto the base because she threatened to tell the Grand Inquisitor about the officer who was suspicious of her. He was competent but scared about what would happen to him if he inconvenienced someone important. Fear won.

Yeah that's the problem with states that rely on "might makes right" philosophy for the administration, everyone is too scared of upsetting someone above them to look at things critically, so you end up with things like bases with security holes big enough to drive a Star Destroyer thru them especially as people above are equally scared of upsetting someone above them and thus will look for a scapegoat rather then trying to fix the issue.

Palpatine is pretty much the only one not scared of upsetting anyone and he's more busy trying to maintain (and hopefully add to) his personal power to even care about the day to day running of the Galactic Empire.

You could say that in many ways the Galactic Empire was even more corrupt then the Clone Wars era Galactic Republic since during the Republic there were at least in theory means of complaining about and fixing things like the joke of an internal security displayed in this episode.

Pretty much like the sequels. Watchable once, but do not even try thinking about it, the logical gaps are huge. The whole idea of having an action packed series about someone known to be in hiding, was risky at best.
Is there any description what caused Kenobi to deny the jedi and the force? At the end of AoTC Joda sent him post graduate force training that he was at least curious about. Now I assume they will make it the grand finale that Qui Gon will start training him.
I can also imagine that at the end, Bail will mention, that maybe it is time to make a visit to Naboo, making what Leia knows and what not even weirder.
For whatever reason I am most annoyed by the dead youngling still wearking his helm.

KraytKing wrote: ↑2022-06-08 03:10pm Aliens. Did everyone forget that the Empire hates aliens? Is it not explicitly stated that the Empire is super duper racist and puts humans first, in addition to it being heavily implied that the Empire is the embodiment of the Third Reich in space? Why in the FUCK is every Inquisitor an alien or a human minority, or an alien played by a human minority? (Minority meaning in America, not the world). I know the Empire doesn't care about human races, but that's just a complaint regarding casting. Obi-Wan and nameless Jedi schmuck are white humans. Kumail Nanjiani is at least a brown Jedi, but it's quickly revealed that he's running a scam. It's a little ridiculous. To be clear, there are two separate problems: questionable casting choices in making every person of color a bad guy or morally questionable; and minimizing the racism of the Empire, thereby minimizing the story of struggle against a racist state.

Has the Empire or any Sith ever shown racism when it comes to force users ?

I'll take examples from outside of the current canon, as long as they were canon when they were published.

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2022-06-13 03:18pm

KraytKing wrote: ↑2022-06-08 03:10pm Aliens. Did everyone forget that the Empire hates aliens? Is it not explicitly stated that the Empire is super duper racist and puts humans first, in addition to it being heavily implied that the Empire is the embodiment of the Third Reich in space? Why in the FUCK is every Inquisitor an alien or a human minority, or an alien played by a human minority? (Minority meaning in America, not the world). I know the Empire doesn't care about human races, but that's just a complaint regarding casting. Obi-Wan and nameless Jedi schmuck are white humans. Kumail Nanjiani is at least a brown Jedi, but it's quickly revealed that he's running a scam. It's a little ridiculous. To be clear, there are two separate problems: questionable casting choices in making every person of color a bad guy or morally questionable; and minimizing the racism of the Empire, thereby minimizing the story of struggle against a racist state.

Has the Empire or any Sith ever shown racism when it comes to force users ?

I'll take examples from outside of the current canon, as long as they were canon when they were published.

As far as I can remember Palpatine has always had policy of "does it benefit me" when it came to Force users and had no reservations of using non-human for users if it fit his plans. Even in the Legends, the Empire did employ non-humans if doing so was more beneficial then bigotry.

Only time I can recall Sith having shown racism towards Force users was in SWTOR and that was during the height of the Sith Empire, the Sith Empire was bigoted towards anyone who wasn't human or Pureblood Sith (the species that is), though even then should someone prove themselves merit mattered more then race/species.

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2022-06-12 01:54am

Solauren wrote: ↑2022-06-11 01:20pmKenobi only got into the Inquisitors base because he had someone on the inside.

And she only got onto the base because she threatened to tell the Grand Inquisitor about the officer who was suspicious of her. He was competent but scared about what would happen to him if he inconvenienced someone important. Fear won.

One of the few sensible moments. When you're led by space wizards who do whatever they want whenever they want, it's a little hard to follow the rules. Especially since they might kill you for delaying them. That tracks.

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2022-06-13 03:18pm Has the Empire or any Sith ever shown racism when it comes to force users ?

I'll take examples from outside of the current canon, as long as they were canon when they were published.

I have no idea. Probably? There is a LOT of canon out there, there's probably examples of both.

It makes sense to me that they would accept anyone as a Force-user, so long as they are applied in exactly the opposite manner as the show chooses. They should be kept secret, so as not to disrupt the propaganda. The humans with patrician features are the Imperial Force-users that are recognized and feared in every system, the aliens are the ones that are feared by the upper Imperial bureaucracy but unrecognized, dismissed, and perhaps hated everywhere Imperial propaganda has taken hold. Or they wear helmets to fit in.

But the big issue to me is the out-of-universe problem. Racism clearly isn't that bad in the Empire, or so it is portrayed. And of course, casting choices.

Broomstick wrote: ↑2022-06-11 04:28am

KraytKing wrote: ↑2022-06-08 03:10pm Honestly some of the worst Star Wars media I've ever seen. The first episode was insulting, but it didn't drive me away like the Mandalorian did for some reason so I kept watching. Now I intend to keep watching, just so I don't have friends telling me "oh it gets better, you're just a curmudgeon" for the rest of time.

Stop worrying about being a called a curmudgeon and go watch something you will actually enjoy. Life is too short to do otherwise. You'll be a happier curmudgeon for doing it.

While your advice is good, I also love to hate things.

More fun. Highlight was probably watching Vader fight his new Grand Inquisitor Reva, clearly outmatching her, and just being a prick about it. It's cool showing what the evil of someone like Vader actually is.

The way Vader didn't even bother igniting his lightsaber and simply used his Force powers against Reva is how I always thought Yoda and the Emperor should have fought in the prequels.

I wonder why Vader didn't use that little trick of his to prevent the Falcon from escaping Echo Base in TESB.

Galvatron wrote: ↑2022-06-15 10:40am The way Vader didn't even bother igniting his lightsaber and simply used his Force powers against Reva is how I always thought Yoda and the Emperor should have fought in the prequels.

I wonder why Vader didn't use that little trick of his to prevent the Falcon from escaping Echo Base in TESB.

I checked the TESB scene. Unless I've badly misinterpreted it, Vader only showed up just as the Falcon was boosting out of the hangar.

In this case, Vader strode in, and caught the first transport just as it was taking off. The second transport took off much faster, just as he saw that the first transport was empty.

All-in-all, I think it takes him a second or two to focus his Telekinesis, and it takes a lot of his concentration. The second transport, and the Falcon, were just a little too fast for him.

And what the hell is it with stormtroopers closing to melee range when fighting Jedi? They sacrifice their biggest tactical advantage by doing that.

They'd be even smarter if they actually sought cover so the Jedi couldn't easily deflect their blaster shots right back at them.

How many stormtroopers did that ragtag band of fugitives take down, anyway? Was that supposed to be Vader's 501st Legion?!

That settles the question of the Grand Inquisitor. He has survived. His eyes have a definite yellow to them now.

KraytKing wrote: ↑2022-06-13 05:47pm It makes sense to me that they would accept anyone as a Force-user, so long as they are applied in exactly the opposite manner as the show chooses. They should be kept secret, so as not to disrupt the propaganda. The humans with patrician features are the Imperial Force-users that are recognized and feared in every system, the aliens are the ones that are feared by the upper Imperial bureaucracy but unrecognized, dismissed, and perhaps hated everywhere Imperial propaganda has taken hold. Or they wear helmets to fit in.

But the big issue to me is the out-of-universe problem. Racism clearly isn't that bad in the Empire, or so it is portrayed. And of course, casting choices.

It seems to me that, while there is definitely racism that favors humans in the Empire, humans are only in second place. First place goes to loyal force users. The religious caste sitting on top of everything.

Also I don't remember anything about the Empire ruling by making people fear the alien. Instead it rules by making people fear what the Empire will do to whoever is nearby when someone steps out of line.

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2022-06-13 03:53pm As far as I can remember Palpatine has always had policy of "does it benefit me" when it came to Force users and had no reservations of using non-human for users if it fit his plans. Even in the Legends, the Empire did employ non-humans if doing so was more beneficial then bigotry.

Only time I can recall Sith having shown racism towards Force users was in SWTOR and that was during the height of the Sith Empire, the Sith Empire was bigoted towards anyone who wasn't human or Pureblood Sith (the species that is), though even then should someone prove themselves merit mattered more then race/species.

I haven't played SWTOR, but from what I remember of KOTOR the Sith species was long dead. So it's interesting to hear that they still managed to pop up.

Still, that's all Legends stuff now.

In regards to the Sith species surviving, Spoiler

Man the scale of this show is tiny. Best episode yet but still terrible cinematography. Blaster battles within 20ft, speeders and ships having to be in the same shot with the scale and CGI matching looking terible. Too lazy? Or they ran out of money to do some far shots and get more angles of the battles.

They packed everyone in and was worse accuracy than the tantive battle. Same with the speeders attacking the fortress, could they not buy a tie fighter. Ships escaping even with docks blockaded, where the Falcon had to but one of the most modded ship in the galaxy to break blockades.

Vader's force powers just as inconsistent as the rest, but at least displaying something impressive, lightsabers still seem slow and heavy though.

Galvatron wrote: ↑2022-06-15 11:18am And what the hell is it with stormtroopers closing to melee range when fighting Jedi? They sacrifice their biggest tactical advantage by doing that.

They'd be even smarter if they actually sought cover so the Jedi couldn't easily deflect their blaster shots right back at them.

How many stormtroopers did that ragtag band of fugitives take down, anyway? Was that supposed to be Vader's 501st Legion?!

I don't think they were meant to be any specifically elite stormtroopers. Presumably they have little to no actual training for fighting Jedi, and fall back to their "fire and advance" style of doing things because it's what they know.

If you assume stormtroopers' jobs are oppression first, combat second, it sort of follows.

It's certainly interesting to see prequel-era Obi-Wan and Anakin not acting so wooden for a change. A competent director of actors really can make a difference, it seems.

On the other hand, it's too bad the guy wearing the Vader suit can't loosen up and ape some of David Prowse's physical mannerisms. He needs to do more with his hands when he's just standing around. Even resting them on his belt would be enough.

Gandalf wrote: ↑2022-06-15 04:43pm

Galvatron wrote: ↑2022-06-15 11:18am And what the hell is it with stormtroopers closing to melee range when fighting Jedi? They sacrifice their biggest tactical advantage by doing that.

They'd be even smarter if they actually sought cover so the Jedi couldn't easily deflect their blaster shots right back at them.

How many stormtroopers did that ragtag band of fugitives take down, anyway? Was that supposed to be Vader's 501st Legion?!

I don't think they were meant to be any specifically elite stormtroopers. Presumably they have little to no actual training for fighting Jedi, and fall back to their "fire and advance" style of doing things because it's what they know.

If you assume stormtroopers' jobs are oppression first, combat second, it sort of follows.

That and Inquisitor lady was yelling "press forward!" so of course you do that. Sure it's a terrible idea to advance on a lightsaber-wielding Jedi but what are you gonna do, disobey and hang back with the lightsaber-wielding Jedi Hunter you're pissing off by ignoring her?

Was there any reason why Reva didn't cut through the doors in the first place? It seemed like a forced excuse to set up the dialogue between her and Obi-Wan.

I can't think any reason that isn't stupid.

Galvatron wrote: ↑2022-06-16 12:01am I can't think any reason that isn't stupid.

Well she does seem like she doesn't have even a fraction of the skill she likes to project, so it's actually not impossible she simply wasn't aware that it was possible, she is after all only a barely trained Youngling, not a fully trained Jedi and any training she did get was done by the inquisitors and thus might not on purpose not be as complete as it could.

After all most Jedi the inquisitors would end up fighting would be Padawans or Jedi who spent most of their time hiding and thus would out of practice (like Kenobi at start of the series) and something the series seems to hammer home is that Reva isn't very smart and is allowing her(?) impatience to lead her into even dumber outcomes because she's unwilling to think things thru.

I mean as an inquisitor she's been working fairly closely with Vader for an extended period of time and still she thought she had a chance of killing him in essentially a fair fight, Reva's body might be that of an adult but her mind never left the Jedi Temple so her reasoning isn't that of an adult but that of an angry pre-teen child.

Too bad none of the stormtroopers were ballsy enough to speak up.

"Um, Grand Inquisitor, your lightsaber might work a lot faster on that door than this cannon of ours. Just sayin'..."

Galvatron wrote: ↑2022-06-16 01:29am Too bad none of the stormtroopers were ballsy enough to speak up.

"Um, Grand Inquisitor, your lightsaber might work a lot faster on that door than this cannon of ours. Just sayin'..."

Said stormtrooper would probably not have reached the end of their sentence before Reva would have killed them for implying she made a mistake as the Third Sister had intense need to both to prove herself (even to herself) as well as a temper that could make nitroglycerin seem like a paragon of stability.

Only task she had even a hint of patience for seemed to be getting Vader. Ironically she has many of the same flaws as Vader does just amplified due not having taken a lava bath due to said flaws.

Additionally, I can't help but wonder whether budget restraints resulted in Vader's ship in orbit basically not doing anything (nor even shown later). They could've at least used some dialogue such as immediately entering hyperspace once clearing the planet to resolve the situation.