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Ironically in their fear of loosing themselves to the dark side and rejecting the Jedi Code, Yoda's order were so strict about following the letter of the code that they lost sight of the spirit of the code.


That along with jedi becoming arrogant about the righteousness of the letter of the code (and thus themselves) was the "corruption" the jedi order as a whole suffered from along with man there was no Jedi Master equilevant to Pope Alexander VI, who flaunted his vices for all to see while demanding others to follow the rules. Instead the leaders of the orders slavishly followed the letter of the code, without wondering "why does the code say this?"

Granted this is still a bad thing to do and a corruption of the orginal intent of the code, it's just not an openly evil and hypocritical way of corruption.

As a result the Jedi Order lost sight of the plight of the "common man" in the Republic, not out of intentional malice but rather they were so focused on doing things "by the rules" that they lost sight of things that weren't in their "mandate", since the type of thinking that would lead a jedi to consdering going "beyond the call of duty" to help people might also question the letter of the code.

What part of the code followed to the letter results in them losing sight of the plight of the common man?

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force

Crazedwraith wrote: ↑2018-12-13 05:58pm What part of the code followed to the letter results in them losing sight of the plight of the common man?

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force

The first "there is no emotion, there is peace", caring about something or someone is an emotion after all, it's explained in one the old EU novels quite well, The code is not meant to taken literally in that form, but rather that form is tool to remember it more easily.

It should be noted with "the code" I also refer to rules and regulations of the Jedi Order that aren't in that litany.

The Jedi Code interpreted literally is pretty fucking sociopathic. Forget "which is better, to be loved or to be feared," the Sith got both.

wasn't it revealed somewhere that the code had changed somewhere along the line and was originally

There is emotion, yet there is peace.
There is ignorance, yet there is knowledge.
There is passion, yet there is serenity.
There is chaos, yet there is harmony.
There is death, yet there is the Force

with the connotation being to work toward the latter without denying the former.

Marko Dash wrote: ↑2018-12-17 12:11pm wasn't it revealed somewhere that the code had changed somewhere along the line and was originally

There is emotion, yet there is peace.
There is ignorance, yet there is knowledge.
There is passion, yet there is serenity.
There is chaos, yet there is harmony.
There is death, yet there is the Force

with the connotation being to work toward the latter without denying the former.

more or less though I can't remember the exact wording of the older the versions of the code, the idea was to work towards the first 4 and for the 5th rule it was essentially "don't fear death as you'll gain immortality as part of the Force anyway, so death is nothing to be afraid of"

KraytKing wrote: ↑2018-12-13 08:36pm The Jedi Code interpreted literally is pretty fucking sociopathic. Forget "which is better, to be loved or to be feared," the Sith got both.

Well it's kinda hard to have any kind of warrior monk for life order that isn't pretty much sociopathic to some degree. The fact that a Jedi is a Jedi for life, and appears to normally serve and life with the order for life isn't the most healthy of ideas out of hand, no matter what code it exists by.

PIty nothing in canon gives us any real idea of what the 'retention rate' really is though, and while we know of several Jedi who left the order our idea of how many really existed remains full of contradictions. You'd figure a non trivial number leave or simply never achieve the rank at all.

Either way what code say is secondary as we know from what we've seen in canon that the Jedi Order doesn't blackmail people for protection or take bribes. So that's not the source of wealth for the Order.

As for the "jedi drop-outs" at least in the legendaries those became members of the Jedi Order's argri-corps, so it wouldn't surprise me if those that couldn't serve as full Jedi Knights would serve the order in other ways.

I expect its largely a combination of donations from wealthy individuals they helped out (I could see Padme or Bail Organa giving donations to the Jedi, for example), and payments from the Republic government.

Plus, playing the Stockmarket is probably easier if you have precognition.


Okay, I don't know if most Force users' precognition is that precise (it probably isn't). Also... does Star Wars have a galactic Stockmarket, or equivalent?

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2018-12-22 01:15pm I expect its largely a combination of donations from wealthy individuals they helped out (I could see Padme or Bail Organa giving donations to the Jedi, for example), and payments from the Republic government.

Plus, playing the Stockmarket is probably easier if you have precognition.


Okay, I don't know if most Force users' precognition is that precise (it probably isn't). Also... does Star Wars have a galactic Stockmarket, or equivalent?

I dunno about current canon but I seem to remember there being mention of stocks (and thus a stockmarket) in the legendaries (for the pre-imperial era) though I could also be missremembering things.

That said long term precognition of Force users seems unrelible and subject to the biases of the user in question (which is by Palpatine couldn't foresee his defeat, as such a thing was unthinkble to him).

I always imagined that the Republic would fund the Jedi Order, along with a myriad of other sources of funding. It may sound much but for a galactic-scale government (that seems to have operated a navy before the clone wars), it would actually be a relatively small thing.

Zixinus wrote: ↑2018-12-23 03:18pm I always imagined that the Republic would fund the Jedi Order, along with a myriad of other sources of funding. It may sound much but for a galactic-scale government (that seems to have operated a navy before the clone wars), it would actually be a relatively small thing.

I dunno if it's canon anyone but in the legendaries Jedi Order did have warfleets pre-Ruusan reformation and the Jedi Order did pre-date the first incarnation of the Galactic Republic.

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2018-12-23 01:25am
That said long term precognition of Force users seems unrelible and subject to the biases of the user in question (which is by Palpatine couldn't foresee his defeat, as such a thing was unthinkble to him).

A bit tangential, but I just watched ESB again a night or two ago, the original, not special edition, and I think Vader said to Luke on Bespin that Palpatine had foreseen himself falling at Luke's hand. Part of his inspirational speech to get Luke to join him. I may be wrong. When I heard it, it attracted my attention, as that has interesting implications. Alas, at the time I was distracted by other matters, and did not rewind.

KraytKing wrote: ↑2018-12-24 01:57am

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2018-12-23 01:25am
That said long term precognition of Force users seems unrelible and subject to the biases of the user in question (which is by Palpatine couldn't foresee his defeat, as such a thing was unthinkble to him).

A bit tangential, but I just watched ESB again a night or two ago, the original, not special edition, and I think Vader said to Luke on Bespin that Palpatine had foreseen himself falling at Luke's hand. Part of his inspirational speech to get Luke to join him. I may be wrong. When I heard it, it attracted my attention, as that has interesting implications. Alas, at the time I was distracted by other matters, and did not rewind.

It's in the special edition too IIRC and seems less like "he has seen the exact manner of his defeat at your hands" and more "he has seen that you could become powerful enough to possibly defeat him" when viewed in context.

Yeah that would be the context I took it to have. And it fits with the kind of information people usually get from the force, an indication of intent, not a detailed scenario. It's emotionally based, not fact based.