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Ralin wrote: ↑2019-12-25 04:44pmAnd winning the Sith's Force Jihad in the process just reinforces that along with all the practical benefits of there not being any more Jedi, so...

He already won the Force Jihad; he wiped out the Jedi 57 years ago.

They should have made it more of a personal vendetta between him and Luke, rather than this bland "Light v Dark" thing we got.

Dying's a hell of a thing. Someone already as warped as Palpatine would be seriously affected by that.

I can't help but wonder if Palpatine didn't just survive his fall and ride the wreckage of the Death Star down to that other moon of Endor. I'm not suggesting he didn't get severely fucked up, but it's not like we actually saw his body get vaporized in ROTJ.

MKSheppard wrote: ↑2019-12-25 04:53pm He already won the Force Jihad; he wiped out the Jedi 57 years ago.

Not really...he missed a few. And ultimately it was a Jedi who killed him.

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-25 05:03pm I can't help but wonder if Palpatine didn't just survive his fall and ride the wreckage of the Death Star down to that other moon of Endor. I'm not suggesting he didn't get severely fucked up, but it's not like we actually saw his body get vaporized in ROTJ.

That's probably why he was all fucked up and hanging from his personal crane thing. There wasn't any mention of him being able to body hop, though it is interesting how many people assume that's what he did.

I can imagine that he had his own Mustafar-moment where he had to just lay there in agony until one of his loyal cultists found him and brought him back to Exegol to heal for a few years.

Vendetta wrote: ↑2019-12-25 04:24pm

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-25 03:41pm

Vendetta wrote: ↑2019-12-25 08:42am(Also the version of grandpa Sheev in this film is super off, when in any of the other movies was there ever a hint that he cared about the Sith? He cared about power and being in charge, the Jedi were just an obstacle to that he was never on some kind of ancient Force jihad).

I thought ROTS heavily implied that Palpatine's motivation was the establishment of a Sith dynasty.

It seemed to me much more about the establishment of his dynasty. He wanted UNLIMITED POWER for its own sake.

IIRC, in the novel, it was Dooku's plan to make a Sith version of everything. Sith temple with a Sith Council of Sith Masters, so on and so forth.

That doesn’t make the new version of the character consistent with previous behaviour either though. Even beyond it being in a supplemental work less than one percent of the audience can be assumed to have read.

That was a very interesting fan-fiction retelling of the "Star Wars: Dark Empire"

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-25 05:03pm I can't help but wonder if Palpatine didn't just survive his fall and ride the wreckage of the Death Star down to that other moon of Endor. I'm not suggesting he didn't get severely fucked up, but it's not like we actually saw his body get vaporized in ROTJ.

That's the thing that bugged me the most -- all the pristine, empty white classic era stormtrooper armor sets lying in the halls of the DS2 wreckage.

The reactor on DS2 outputs at least 1.2E33 watts -- that's about the same order of magnitude as the luminosity of R136a1 (3.07E33W); the hottest most powerful star we know exists.

And it just exploded in ROTJ in a massive uncontrolled explosion. Now, I'm sure Imperial engineers designed in fail safes to try and vent the reactor output, maybe even shunting some of it into hyperspace -- but everything organic on the DS2 would have been vaporized, pretty much.

MKSheppard wrote: ↑2019-12-25 07:02pm
And it just exploded in ROTJ in a massive uncontrolled explosion. Now, I'm sure Imperial engineers designed in fail safes to try and vent the reactor output, maybe even shunting some of it into hyperspace -- but everything organic on the DS2 would have been vaporized, pretty much.

Well, if the armor was empty presumably the organic stuff was vaporized.

And the explosion of the Death Star should have caused an Endor holocaust, but it didn't. What can ya do?

The metal around the reactor was probably super strong and blocked most of the energy from the explosion. That's the sort of thing they would be able to do with the technology they had back then.

I have a question regarding Palpatine making himself known in the opening roll. Apparently, his broadcast was voiced in a fortnite event (at least we know the target market wasn't fifty-something fans of the OT) to the whole galaxy. But listening to the video, it was... very cryptic. Only people who knew about Palpatine would be able to make something out of it. Other people would hear that the former ruler of the Galaxy from 25 years ago is back, he's unhappy, he has corrected errors of the past and it will be called the day of the Sith. OK.

But would the average galactic citizen (or leader) know about the Sith? They were extinct for a millenia in the PT, the Jedi had made a good job at removing knowledge of them than even members of the Jedi council couldn't believe them to be back. Then Windu realizes who he is and go to out him. Supposedly, he twitted about Palpy just before entering Chancellor Palpatine's office, so all the other Jedi know... but... they were quite efficently wiped out subsequently. At the beginning of the OT, you can have an admiral (who presumably was starting his career during the Clone War) not believing the Force and the Jedi to be a thing, so the information-suppressing power of the Sith Duo is impressive (Jedi half-ruled the Galaxy a generation ago...) and I don't see them making much publicity for the Sith at the same time. I was under the impression that it was rather confidential knowledge at the time.

So, am I wrong? Was the mention that "the Sith are back" supposed to terrify the general public? (and not "simply" Palpatine)?

Two questions:

- Why are we believing Palpatine when he says that Rey is his granddaughter ?

- Was this the first Star Wars film to display a photosensitivity warning before it started ?
Because going with heavy flashing lights that are known to cause medical problems in some of the audience feels like a really shitty move from any filmmaker.

I agree, Palpatine's claim is questionable...

But, I have absolutely no problem believing that Palpatine not only attempted to recreate Anakin Skywalker's 'spontaneous conception', as well as more traditional reproductive technologies, to try to create a potential apprentice/heir, but that he succeeded.

It would then be a simple matter to monitor any results for Force-Potential, or 'no, they don't have any, but if I forsee if I can get them to hook up with the right person, my grandchild could be powerful in the Force'.

Remember, Palpatine played the long-game to gain control of the galaxy. He could easily do the same to insure the continuation of the Sith.

It's a mute point, however, as Luke Skywalker confirmed it! This is Luke, after he's died and become one with the Force.

Rey Skywalker is Palpatine's grand daughter. Simple as that.

(And she had to go and bury the last Skywalker lightsabers on Tattooine of all places. Anakin must be looking on going 'REALLY?')

Ralin wrote: ↑2019-12-25 07:24pm The metal around the reactor was probably super strong and blocked most of the energy from the explosion. That's the sort of thing they would be able to do with the technology they had back then.

There is no need to contort yourself to make excuses for this POS. We saw the DSII explode in the highest canon material. Granted, we only saw one side of that explosion and perhaps the other side ejected a mint condition full hemisphere into the black of space. But the side we did see explode was the one with the superlaser on it, and that is the side we saw on Endor in TROS. There is nothing even remotely approximating the size of the wreckage we see in that scene based on the explosion in ROTJ, let alone the relatively intact nature of that wreckage. Keep in mind all of that still had to survive entry into an atmosphere thick enough to breathe and then impact with a rocky terrestrial body.

I also have to point out that the DS as represented by the wreckage seen in TROS is entirely inconsistent with the size of the DSII relative to the Endor from the ROTJ depictions. I haven't done the math but off the cuff, I'd say the super laser divot is roughly 40-50 km high from the generally accepted diameter of the DSII at 200km. You physically can't have the visuals of the wreckage seen in TROS without DRASTICALLY reducing the diameter of the DSII, especially given the cloud formations we see in those scenes. That cloud ceiling can't be any more than 5km (being very generous), meaning there is no way to fit what we see within the visible air column. Just a straight physical space analysis means that for that much of it to be within the angle of the camera, most of it would have to be over the horizon given Endor's diameter (4900km).

No, I don't give a shit that they are now saying the DS wreckage isn't even on Endor, but rather a different newely invented moon in a near orbit of the same gas giant.

As for stormtrooper armor, if it can survive the wrath of a DSII exploding at the energies earlier described (and also the same reentry and impact), I would expect better performance against blaster hits. Or fucking arrows.

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-25 07:19pm And the explosion of the Death Star should have caused an Endor holocaust, but it didn't. What can ya do?

Wait a few decades for this film to have the same nostalgia fuelled excuses for any perceived shortcomings?

Gandalf wrote: ↑2019-12-26 01:12am

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-25 07:19pm And the explosion of the Death Star should have caused an Endor holocaust, but it didn't. What can ya do?

Wait a few decades for this film to have the same nostalgia fuelled excuses for any perceived shortcomings?

Oh I can't wait for the day to come when people are talking about how great the ST is and how Episodes XIII-XV ruined Star Wars.

Knife wrote: ↑2019-12-24 11:08pm That reminds me, Bilateralrope. Shouldn't there be an ISD out there with a planet cracking laser cannon on it? Most of the Sith fleet was on Exegol, but one ship was sent to that one planet to blow it up. One is on the loose.

I remember seeing its captain during the battle of Exegol, so I assumed that for whatever reason it got back to base

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2019-12-25 10:13pm Two questions:

- Why are we believing Palpatine when he says that Rey is his granddaughter ?

Solauren wrote: ↑2019-12-25 10:32pm I agree, Palpatine's claim is questionable...

Because it wasn't only Palpatine who knew. Ghost Luke says that he and Leia knew as well. A clear retcon by Abrams just for this kind of situation. So, the claim isn't questionable and she was his granddaughter.. But how the heck...

The framing of the movie treats it as true information, and assumes it as the underlying conflict of Rey's character "will she overcome her eeebil (grand)parentage" even though that's literally never been part of the concept of the Dark Side previously despite the central character conflict in the OT being a familial one, Luke was never in moral danger because Darth Vader was his father, but because of his own choices and fears.

Mange wrote: ↑2019-12-26 03:30am

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2019-12-25 10:13pm Two questions:

- Why are we believing Palpatine when he says that Rey is his granddaughter ?

Solauren wrote: ↑2019-12-25 10:32pm I agree, Palpatine's claim is questionable...

Because it wasn't only Palpatine who knew. Ghost Luke says that he and Leia knew as well. A clear retcon by Abrams just for this kind of situation. So, the claim isn't questionable and she was his granddaughter.. But how the heck...

Did you read my entire post, or not? I even say at the end that LUKE FUCKING CONFIRMED IT.

Solauren wrote: ↑2019-12-26 09:26am

Mange wrote: ↑2019-12-26 03:30am

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2019-12-25 10:13pm Two questions:

- Why are we believing Palpatine when he says that Rey is his granddaughter ?

Solauren wrote: ↑2019-12-25 10:32pm I agree, Palpatine's claim is questionable...

Because it wasn't only Palpatine who knew. Ghost Luke says that he and Leia knew as well. A clear retcon by Abrams just for this kind of situation. So, the claim isn't questionable and she was his granddaughter.. But how the heck...

Did you read my entire post, or not? I even say at the end that LUKE FUCKING CONFIRMED IT.

Cool it. I know, I used that part of your post as an illustration.

I'll just give my last two-cents on this.

The entire sequel trilogy, from the outset, is a miscarriage of bad writing. The actors, including the original and new cast, were wasted. Anger or hate directed at the actors is an injustice and misplaced. These movies will be part of the series now, forevermore, but not without the sour note of knowing just how badly they (the movies) failed the very people that appeared in them -- and by extension the audience that watched them. If you wish to direct any criticism it lies with Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Jonson, JJ Abrams, and Chris Terrio.

Abacus wrote: ↑2019-12-26 12:03pm I'll just give my last two-cents on this.

The entire sequel trilogy, from the outset, is a miscarriage of bad writing. The actors, including the original and new cast, were wasted. Anger or hate directed at the actors is an injustice and misplaced. These movies will be part of the series now, forevermore, but not without the sour note of knowing just how badly they (the movies) failed the very people that appeared in them -- and by extension the audience that watched them. If you wish to direct any criticism it lies with Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Jonson, JJ Abrams, and Chris Terrio.

What sequel trilogy? It doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

There's only this:

What an uncanny rendition of Leia that do not contribute anything you didn't already know?