StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Knife wrote: ↑2020-11-07 11:56am Anyway, took it as they went sublight but high fraction of C and were still in the system when jumped by the Xwing patrol. Mando just got done programing in the nav and was leaning back to relax when it went sidewards. Seems he was just in the Tatooine system.

The problem is they were supposed to make the entire trip sublight. Which, unless the destination is absurdly close in interstellar terms, is going to take a really long time even at high fractional c. And the starfields we see in this episode (or anywhere Tatooine is involved-for being at the ass-end of nowhere that planet gets a lot of coverage)don't seem to suggest a local star density all that high.

It's another Hoth to Anoat to Bespin situation. Only this time we no longer have as much wiggle room about how long it took to make the trip.

Not to mention no backup hyperdrive cop-out

All we can really do is take the terminology that was used with a grain of salt. Star Wars has always had a strange habit of using the term "system" interchangeably in referring to both planets and star systems.

The mechanic also said "it's one sector over." For all we know, Tatooine sits right on the border of its sector and the destination "system" was a planet within sublight traveling distance.

That's all I got.

Since when? Wars has always had a habit of naming the system after the planet but I can't recall a single time they used the terms interchangeably.

"We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems."

"Make ready to land our troops beyond their energy shield and deploy the fleet so that nothing gets off the system."

I don't know if you're a native English-speaker, but the context of those two statements (i.e. "on" and "off" vs. in and out) always implied to me that "system(s)" are synonymous with planet(s). At least, sometimes.

There's a shot of him programming the trip, that shows the route he's going to take. There's two planets that he's got routes that look like Sling-shots around them. I'm thinking one of those planets is where the X-wings caught him.
After all, he was ASLEEP when the warnings went off. We have no idea how LONG he was asleep -- 2hrs? 4hrs? 6?

In another comment: The Baby needs to be fed more often. Lil' shit was eating as many unfertilized eggs as he could get his lil claws on!
And THEN he ate the Spiderling Egg!

Also worth noting is that AOTC established Tatooine as being "less than a parsec away" from Geonosis so it wasn't really quite as remote and isolated as Luke implied it was in ANH.

Hell, that's even closer than Alpha Centauri is to Earth.

Galvatron wrote: ↑2020-11-07 08:59pm Also worth noting is that AOTC established Tatooine as being "less than a parsec away" from Geonosis so it wasn't really quite as remote and isolated as Luke implied it was in ANH.

Hell, that's even closer than Alpha Centauri is to Earth.

In Luke's defense I think he was referring to any important systems IIRC Geonosis wasn't exactly a major industrial hub a farmer from Tatooine would consider to be important. All maps I've seen Tatooine is quite far from any important core systems.

EDIT:Kind of how a kid living in one those "1 main road" towns in US might refer to himself/herself "living middle of nowhere" even if there several similar towns nearby or even a small city.

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2020-11-08 05:30am

Galvatron wrote: ↑2020-11-07 08:59pm Also worth noting is that AOTC established Tatooine as being "less than a parsec away" from Geonosis so it wasn't really quite as remote and isolated as Luke implied it was in ANH.

Hell, that's even closer than Alpha Centauri is to Earth.

In Luke's defense I think he was referring to any important systems IIRC Geonosis wasn't exactly a major industrial hub a farmer from Tatooine would consider to be important. All maps I've seen Tatooine is quite far from any important core systems.

EDIT:Kind of how a kid living in one those "1 main road" towns in US might refer to himself/herself "living middle of nowhere" even if there several similar towns nearby or even a small city.

I would posit it is both. Geonosis got pretty much sterilized by the Empire after the Republic invaded it twice. While once an industrialized world, should pretty much be a wasteland now. For a kid like Luke, out in the middle of nowhere.

Batman wrote: ↑2020-11-07 05:24pm

Knife wrote: ↑2020-11-07 11:56am Anyway, took it as they went sublight but high fraction of C and were still in the system when jumped by the Xwing patrol. Mando just got done programing in the nav and was leaning back to relax when it went sidewards. Seems he was just in the Tatooine system.

The problem is they were supposed to make the entire trip sublight. Which, unless the destination is absurdly close in interstellar terms, is going to take a really long time even at high fractional c. And the starfields we see in this episode (or anywhere Tatooine is involved-for being at the ass-end of nowhere that planet gets a lot of coverage)don't seem to suggest a local star density all that high.

We have no idea of how long they were expecting it to take, just Mando was settling in for a long trip. We also know sublight engines can pull thousands of G's getting out of an atmosphere, so there is no reason to not expect a sublight engine to get you up to high C fairly quickly and spend a couple months cruising.

I know, it would take years.

I'm also wondering if 'sublight' is colloquial like 'lightspeed' is or 'lasercannon' or 'lasersword' in universe. It's always possible 'sublight' referenced just means non-hyperdrive.

Here's the image of the ship's navigation display when plotting the sublight course from Tatooine to "the estuary moon of Trask in the system of the gas giant Kol Iben".



We didn't see the Mandalorian taking on extra provisions to make the trip, so it can't be expected to take that long.

Expecting to make a sublight trip between stars in any amount of time that isn't going to require some sort of suspended animation, or mountains of food and supplies, sort of implies incredible acceleration. Considering the feats we've seen Star Wars craft to be capable of, and that it's established they have artificial gravity/inertial compensators, this is believable.

However, having engine thrust that gives us the kind of acceleration we know they have, I don't see the value of slingshotting around celestial bodies to assist with motion. Not to mention the curvature of the last leg of the trip makes no sense.. it should be a straight line to the destination.

The old Hoth-Anoat-Bespin issue needs some pretty strained explanations that I've already accepted, so I know this issue in the Mandalorian shouldn't bother me, but whenever I have to stretch my suspension of disbelief this way, it.. does bother me.

Maybe it's time to accept that Star Wars is currently intended (and maybe it always was intended) for the kind of people who care nothing and know nothing about even basic physics, rather than us?


Edit: Well, perhaps it's not entirely irreconcilable.
We don't know how far apart the start and end points of the journey are, nor the time the trip was expected to take.
Have we indeed established that Trask and Kol Iben are in a different star system from Tatooine?

A trianary or quad star system is also possible. Tatooine stars orbiting about another star or two. Obviously, stars that orbit each other are a lot closer together than stars in a cluster.

Cykeisme wrote: ↑2020-11-08 10:48amHowever, having engine thrust that gives us the kind of acceleration we know they have, I don't see the value of slingshotting around celestial bodies to assist with motion. Not to mention the curvature of the last leg of the trip makes no sense.. it should be a straight line to the destination.

I imagine the course he plotted was less about slingshotting and more about avoiding any would-be pursuers (since he couldn't use his hyperdrive).

Galvatron wrote: ↑2020-11-08 12:19pmI imagine the course he plotted was less about slingshotting and more about avoiding any would-be pursuers (since he couldn't use his hyperdrive).

Hmm yeah, with the eggs aboard, he wouldn't be able to make a jump if he's intercepted by anyone (which is indeed what happened).

Still, wouldn't it be better to keep away from planets to avoid potential traffic going to/from the planet?
Even for though the unnamed ice world was uninhabited, it does look like the New Republic fighters had the planet as a waypoint on their patrol route, which is how he got into trouble.


Just to bring up something completely unrelated that was on my mind, was the blaster rifle fire from the two pilots intended to look exceptional, or is it typical for a competent shooter in Star Wars? Do the rifles have some sort of system to assist the user's aim? It looked like they were picking off the smaller spider creatures with very accurate shooting (I think we don't see either of the pilots miss a single shot).

I may be wrong, but I remember it looking like Baze from Rogue One did appear to have some sort of aim assistance system in his repeating blaster. Or again, he could just have been really good with automatic fire.

Cykeisme wrote: ↑2020-11-08 02:11pm Still, wouldn't it be better to keep away from planets to avoid potential traffic going to/from the planet?
Even for though the unnamed ice world was uninhabited, it does look like the New Republic fighters had the planet as a waypoint on their patrol route, which is how he got into trouble.

Maybe he surmised that it would be harder to shake any pursuers off his tail in deep space. Kinda like why Han deliberately piloted the Falcon into an asteroid field to elude the Imperials.

LadyTevar wrote: ↑2020-11-07 08:29pm In another comment: The Baby needs to be fed more often. Lil' shit was eating as many unfertilized eggs as he could get his lil claws on!
And THEN he ate the Spiderling Egg!

Yeah, I mean damn, that kid is eating all the time. Also, quite clearly some sort of omnivore leaning towards carnivore. Wonder if that race's Force powers arose because you had small physically unimposing creatures trying to hunt larger animals.

It could be the Yoda species needs a lot of food because of some metabolic quirk.

Also, I'm having trouble with the notion that baby Yoda is 50, unless he spent a good part of that in suspended animation. Admittedly, that may be an issue with my own suspension of disbelief.

Cykeisme wrote: ↑2020-11-08 02:11pm Do the rifles have some sort of system to assist the user's aim? It looked like they were picking off the smaller spider creatures with very accurate shooting (I think we don't see either of the pilots miss a single shot).

Iirc the (legends) visual dictionary said that the scopes on stormtooper blasters were smart linked to a HUD in their helmets. I think it's perfectly reasonable that other rifles have some sort of "smart" scope, and possibly even aim assist.

Upon reflection, I think what really bugs me about the whole sublight thing is that hey can still tell the same story with the same major actions and character beats (getting "pulled over", crash landing, spiders, etc) without the whole "travel at sublight" nonsense.

Have the buddies of the scavengers from the beginning attack them on their way off of Tatooine. The Razors Crest gets away, but the hyperdrive is damaged, so they have to divert to the ice planet system, where they run into the X-Wing patrol. It's a plot device that worked in both ESB and TPM.

Broomstick wrote: ↑2020-11-10 11:51am Also, I'm having trouble with the notion that baby Yoda is 50, unless he spent a good part of that in suspended animation. Admittedly, that may be an issue with my own suspension of disbelief.

This is a common brain bug with "long lived" species I want to say started with Elves in DnD.
The basic premise is "If you have a super long life span, EVERY aspect of your life is some how evenly spread over that life"
IE = "If someone lives to a 1000 years instead of 100 years... Age 20 for us is age 200 for them. So an age 50 "baby" Yoda is "only 5" in Yoda years.... or something...

It is dumb of course for a variety of evolutionary reasons... But there you go

Next Episode!

Well, I thought he'd rolled a Triumph on that landing... but it was a Despair instead.

However, as promised, we have Bo Katan, and as we'd thought our Mando is unknowingly one of "The Watch", with no idea there is more than One Way.

Great action on this one, and as we'd thought Bo Katan is wanting the DarkSaber (and Mandalore) back very badly. Also, directions on how to find Ahsoka Tano, on a planet that is brand new to Canon!

While on the short side, time wise, it was a good episode.

So, I was kind of thinking that Mando's group was some sort of fundamentalist's group. The whole 'can't take their helmet off' bit and other things like being Mandalorian is a Creed not an ethnicity that don't jive with Mandalorians in Clonewars and Rebels. So now we know, he was part of a fundy movement. Children of the Watch.

So, is the Children a subset of the Death Watch or another group completely? In the flashback in season one with young Djarin being rescued by the Mandos it does look like Death Watch armor and insignias, but the underground group/tribe on the Planet Narro (sp?) didn't.

It was very nice to see Bo Katarn in live action TV. Her headband looked over the top though her armor was perfect. I also really appreciated the Gozanti freighter. I think David Filoni has a thing for the ship, was all over Rebels. Anyway, the model was awesome looking and it was nice to see it in live action, though I do realize it was first seen in TPM.

I like how the theme was building family, and the conflict now in Djarin between what the beliefs of his old family were and live Mandalorians with a different set of beliefs. And my wife needs to be peeled off the celling with the mention of Asoka since that's her favorite SW character.

Knife wrote: ↑2020-11-14 11:07am While on the short side, time wise, it was a good episode.

So, I was kind of thinking that Mando's group was some sort of fundamentalist's group. The whole 'can't take their helmet off' bit and other things like being Mandalorian is a Creed not an ethnicity that don't jive with Mandalorians in Clonewars and Rebels. So now we know, he was part of a fundy movement. Children of the Watch.

So, is the Children a subset of the Death Watch or another group completely? In the flashback in season one with young Djarin being rescued by the Mandos it does look like Death Watch armor and insignias, but the underground group/tribe on the Planet Narro (sp?) didn't.

It was very nice to see Bo Katarn in live action TV. Her headband looked over the top though her armor was perfect. I also really appreciated the Gozanti freighter. I think David Filoni has a thing for the ship, was all over Rebels. Anyway, the model was awesome looking and it was nice to see it in live action, though I do realize it was first seen in TPM.

I like how the theme was building family, and the conflict now in Djarin between what the beliefs of his old family were and live Mandalorians with a different set of beliefs. And my wife needs to be peeled off the celling with the mention of Asoka since that's her favorite SW character.

A fun episode, but you’ve got to feel for that Imperial captain. Talk about a raw deal.

I’ve been giving this (probably far too much) thought. Based on what we saw in Season 1, Djarin must have been brought to Mandalore during the Clone Wars, while Maul’s faction of the Death Watch was in control. He would not have been there long before Ashoka and Bo-katan showed up, invading and occupying the planet in the final hours before Order 66.

Djarin mentioned that he had not removed his helmet since he had ‘pledged to the code’ (IIRC), but we don’t know exactly when that was. Since we see children wearing helmets in the Covert, it would seem likely that Djarin fell in with the Children of the Watch shortly after the Republic/Imperial takeover, and followed the helmet rule ever since. It would also explain why he was so ignorant of other Mandalorian practices; apart from a brief period on Mandalore, he has experienced literally nothing else.

As for the Children themselves, their name certainly implies a connection to the Death Watch. My current thinking is that they formed in the aftermath of the Republic/Imperial takeover, consisting of a mixture of Death Watch survivors and young recruits like Djarin, who fled Mandalore rather than work for Gar Saxon. Traumatised by the defeat, ashamed of Gar Saxon’s collaboration, and likely upset by Imperial attempts to alter Mandalorian culture, the Children embraced an even more extreme version of their former beliefs, and indoctrinated their young charges in it.

On a minor but potentially relevant digression, it would seem that the Children were not involved in Bo-katan’s own revolt; the one that ended with something horrid happening to Mandalore and the Darksaber in Gideon’s hands. Considering that fifteen or more years had passed since the Clone Wars when Bo-Katan got the Darksaber, Djarin would have been a young man in his twenties, and surely able to fight. Yet he has seemingly never encountered other Mandalorians before. This might be colouring Bo-Katan’s less than generous attitude towards the Children; not only do they dismiss her as a fraud, but they wouldn’t help her when she needed them.

Juubi Karakuchi wrote: ↑2020-11-14 12:43pm
A fun episode, but you’ve got to feel for that Imperial captain. Talk about a raw deal.

I’ve been giving this (probably far too much) thought.

1. At no point do we have any evidence that Din was every ON Mandalore. He may have grown up solely in Enclaves on various planets.

2. In Clone Wars, we meet Duchess Sabine Kryze, who had won a Civil War against the "Warrior Clans" who were exiled to Concordia. Some of those Clans became "Death Watch", and kept up a insurgency. Others left and became "The Old Mandalorians", according to RPG Sourcebook "Friends Like These". After Duchess Sabine beats a second coup attempt are the Death Watch scattered.

My thought is Din's Enclave was one of the Warrior Clans exiled to Concordia. Whether they were Death Watch, or took scattered Death Watch members in after the second coup is unknown. However, it seems to be leaning towards the idea that the Children of the Watch had abandoned Mandalore at some point between Duchess Sabine's reign, Dark Maul's coup, the start of the Empire, and the "Great Purge".

While knowing WHEN the Children of the Watch left might explain Din's ignorance, there's also the more likely explanation that the Children of the Watch's leaders chose to isolate themselves from Mandalore completely. They are, after all, a Cult. Cults isolate from the outside world in small Enclaves, indoctrinate their children to follow ONLY their own Rules and Worldview, and allow only certain members of their group to go out into the world, both to protect the other cultists, and to avoid too much exposure to the Outside.