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I was having a debate with someone over the power level of Jedi. How powerful is Kanan relative to the other members of the Ghost?

The person I was arguing with was trying to argue that a grunt Jedi wouldn't really be all that much more powerful than a smuggler or bounty hunter. I was wondering which side Rebels falls on?

Force users' powers are... wildly inconsistent.

A lot of it comes down to ones' state of mind at the time.

So I'm not sure there's any way to definitively say how powerful Kanan is, except in a general sense.

However, I would say that since he's a smuggler with Force powers, he should outclass a comparably skilled smuggler without Force powers by default under most circumstances.

Adam Reynolds wrote:I was having a debate with someone over the power level of Jedi. How powerful is Kanan relative to the other members of the Ghost?

The person I was arguing with was trying to argue that a grunt Jedi wouldn't really be all that much more powerful than a smuggler or bounty hunter. I was wondering which side Rebels falls on?

Examine his performance in Path of the Jedi, Homecoming, and to a lesser extent The Protector of Concord Dawn, just to rattle a couple of examples off the top of my head. None of the rest of the Ghost crew would have stood a chance of doing some of the things he's done in the event of a role swap.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Force users' powers are... wildly inconsistent.

A lot of it comes down to ones' state of mind at the time.

So I'm not sure there's any way to definitively say how powerful Kanan is, except in a general sense.

However, I would say that since he's a smuggler with Force powers, he should outclass a comparably skilled smuggler without Force powers by default under most circumstances.

Though neither is a smuggler, Cad Bane and Pre Viszla put up very good fights vs Jedi that already had a lot of combat experience under their belts, so it's hard to say just how much of an advantage the force truly offers...

In that era, it is often argued that Jedi were weakened by the shroud of the Dark Side. While it is undoubtedly true that their long range precognition was weakened, there is less evidence as to whether their combat skills were truly hindered. I would argue that it was hindered somewhat, but exactly to what degree is debatable.

Though I always found it annoying that Grievous, who in ROTS was established as having killed Jedi, was so much less effective than series original characters in this respect. They seemed to take Mace Windu's line about him "running and hiding as he always does" as their only source of characterization.

The Romulan Republic wrote:Sigh... why do I get the feeling that the decision to have the Geonosians be exterminated was done at least partly to appeal to Prequel haters by having something from the Prequels be brutally killed?

You sound paranoid. Frankly, seeing the Geonosians show up as full members of the Rebel Alliance would have been interesting to me.

However, if the Geonosians truly were a hive species and biologically subservient to the will of a single queen, it seems to me that she would have never accepted Imperial rule or stopped fighting just because the rest of the CIS was defeated. In short, the Emperor may have simply decided that it would be too dangerous to allow such a technologically advanced, productive and recalcitrant species to remain alive. They would always present a potential military threat to the Empire.

According to wookiepedia, Geonosis is the new Death Star construction site, replacing Despayre from the old EU.

Galvatron wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:Sigh... why do I get the feeling that the decision to have the Geonosians be exterminated was done at least partly to appeal to Prequel haters by having something from the Prequels be brutally killed?

You sound paranoid. Frankly, seeing the Geonosians show up as full members of the Rebel Alliance would have been interesting to me.

I just know that their's a lot of excessive and irrational hatred towards the Prequels, and that Disney appears determined to pander to and placate that group of fans.

Yes, seeing the Geonosians in the Rebellion would have been interesting.

However, if the Geonosians truly were a hive species and biologically subservient to the will of a single queen, it seems to me that she would have never accepted Imperial rule or stopped fighting just because the rest of the CIS was defeated. In short, the Emperor may have simply decided that it would be too dangerous to allow such a technologically advanced, productive and recalcitrant species to remain alive. They would always present a potential military threat to the Empire.

It could work out that way, I suppose, presuming the entire species was ruled over by only a single queen, and said, queen was unwilling to consider any options besides pointlessly fighting to the death.

Raesene wrote:According to wookiepedia, Geonosis is the new Death Star construction site, replacing Despayre from the old EU.

Another reason the Geonosians had to be exterminated: their intimate knowledge of the Death Star. Imagine if they were left alive and were able to warn the rebels about it during its construction phase? It may have rendered the Battle of Yavin unnecessary and the Emperor without a way to rid himself of that pesky Senate.

The Romulan Republic wrote:It could work out that way, I suppose, presuming the entire species was ruled over by only a single queen, and said, queen was unwilling to consider any options besides pointlessly fighting to the death.

Well, considering that they hated the Republic enough to build a Death Star to use against it, I have no trouble imagining that they'd regard subjugation by the Empire as utterly intolerable.

Unless Geonosians are a hive mind, I doubt the average Geonosian knew much about the Death Star project.

The average Geonosian wouldn't need to know much about it. Simply alerting the rebels to its existence might have given them valuable years of warning that the Empire was building a world-destroying superweapon.

That, by itself, would be precious intel.

Galvatron wrote:The average Geonosian wouldn't need to know much about it. Simply alerting the rebels to its existence might have given them valuable years of warning that the Empire was building a world-destroying superweapon.

That, by itself, would be precious intel.

But again, unless the Geonosians are a hive mind, if the average Geonosian knew about the project (not something I'm aware of their being any evidence for regardless), some of them would probably have said something to a visiting off-worlder or something, rendering it rather a moot point.

So, why didn't Kallus report to medical? I know the Empire is cold, but you'd think he would want to fix his leg before he limps to his quarters to think in quiet. Or did he really think that the Admiral considered him a friend, and wanted to check in with him?

FaxModem1 wrote:So, why didn't Kallus report to medical? I know the Empire is cold, but you'd think he would want to fix his leg before he limps to his quarters to think in quiet. Or did he really think that the Admiral considered him a friend, and wanted to check in with him?

Perhaps he was too embarrassed to admit that he was captured/partnered up with a rebel, or maybe he just wanted to get some sleep...

The Romulan Republic wrote:

Galvatron wrote:The average Geonosian wouldn't need to know much about it. Simply alerting the rebels to its existence might have given them valuable years of warning that the Empire was building a world-destroying superweapon.

That, by itself, would be precious intel.

But again, unless the Geonosians are a hive mind, if the average Geonosian knew about the project (not something I'm aware of their being any evidence for regardless), some of them would probably have said something to a visiting off-worlder or something, rendering it rather a moot point.

It was a closely-guarded secret by the time of AOTC, but probably became less so throughout the war as the moon-sized skeleton of their great weapon became visible to anyone with eyes.

However, I'm making a giant leap of faith here and presuming that the Geonosis system was probably not accustomed to many visitors, being one of the founding worlds of the CIS and a major production site for their droid armies. I also assume that it was heavily guarded by the Separatists during the war and then by the Empire soon after. Given that scene in ROTS, I imagine they didn't waste much time before seizing control of the partially constructed Death Star.

biostem wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:So, why didn't Kallus report to medical? I know the Empire is cold, but you'd think he would want to fix his leg before he limps to his quarters to think in quiet. Or did he really think that the Admiral considered him a friend, and wanted to check in with him?

Perhaps he was too embarrassed to admit that he was captured/partnered up with a rebel, or maybe he just wanted to get some sleep...

Maybe he stopped by sick bay and let a medical droid patch him up before limping back to his quarters. Just because the admiral didn't stop to give him a hug doesn't mean Kallus didn't see to his injury first.

biostem wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:So, why didn't Kallus report to medical? I know the Empire is cold, but you'd think he would want to fix his leg before he limps to his quarters to think in quiet. Or did he really think that the Admiral considered him a friend, and wanted to check in with him?

Perhaps he was too embarrassed to admit that he was captured/partnered up with a rebel, or maybe he just wanted to get some sleep...

Does he want gangrene or a permanent impediment? Because that's how you get that if you ignore something like a broken leg for too long. Besides, it's not like the Empire has to know that he was Zeb's prisoner for a day.

Galvatron wrote:

biostem wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:So, why didn't Kallus report to medical? I know the Empire is cold, but you'd think he would want to fix his leg before he limps to his quarters to think in quiet. Or did he really think that the Admiral considered him a friend, and wanted to check in with him?

Perhaps he was too embarrassed to admit that he was captured/partnered up with a rebel, or maybe he just wanted to get some sleep...

Maybe he stopped by sick bay and let a medical droid patch him up before limping back to his quarters. Just because the admiral didn't stop to give him a hug doesn't mean Kallus didn't see to his injury first.

if that's the case, why the limp? Doesn't bacta fix that?

Not necessarily immediately.

Batman wrote:Not necessarily immediately.

Just how fast does bacta work? And wouldn't he still be in the sickbay if he was injured?

It could just be a residual pain thing. We know that Bacta doesn't fully heal the individual. Luke's dunk in the tank helped repair the worst of the frostbite damage on Hoth but he still had wounds on his face that didn't fully vanish immediately. Kallus might have his his leg mended but it could still be sore for awhile.

Also it was stated in the TESB novelization that it takes a while for things to heal even with bacta treatments (they were talking about Luke's injuries well the scars to be exact and how they were almost fully healed), basically bacta helps with natural healing process but it's not a magic juice you put someone in and after few seconds it's like they weren't injured. It's possible that Kallus was healed enough that he could be sent to his quaters but he would put on light duty until fully cleared for the field.

Rogue 9 wrote:That would be really cheap, even for them.
Spoiler

You would think that Agent Kallus (I still can't believe they named him that) would have learned better than to set traps for this bunch without bringing along an Inquisitor or three. Oh well. Apart from that, it was a pretty good story. You can't even fairly say that we've never quite seen Kallus as anything but before; he was obviously shocked at the summary execution of Commandant Aresko and Taskmaster Grint last season, so it wasn't completely out of nowhere.

In a tie-in comic strip that appeared in Star Wars Rebels Magazine, Kallus had pursued and eventually arrested a friend of his who was charged with corruption.

Borgholio wrote:It could just be a residual pain thing. We know that Bacta doesn't fully heal the individual. Luke's dunk in the tank helped repair the worst of the frostbite damage on Hoth but he still had wounds on his face that didn't fully vanish immediately. Kallus might have his his leg mended but it could still be sore for awhile.

Luke was also on a short timetable, I always had the impression that they yanked him out before he was fully healed because they knew the Imperials were coming and they needed all their pilots on hand.

Bacta might also not be that effective on broken bones. It could be mainly intended for use on external tissue damage, etc., but broken bones just might require more than a magical salve being smeared on the skin.

I never liked the old EU implication that it was a no-limits cure-all for every ailment.

The rate at which the rebels casually slaugher entire units needs to be lessened in the show.

Also, how in hell did they get the DS from Episode III to Geonosis?

Thanas wrote:The rate at which the rebels casually slaugher entire units needs to be lessened in the show.

Agreed. The opening crawl of ANH tells us that rebel spaceships just won their first victory against the Empire. That makes no sense if the rebels have been successfully defeating the Imperials for years prior to the events of Star Wars: Rogue One.

I always imagined that the Rebel Alliance was composed mainly of spies and saboteurs who would hurt the Empire covertly and expose their atrocities to the galaxy as part of their propaganda campaign. That would help to explain the erosion of the Emperor's support in both the Senate and the general populace during the 20 years between ANH and ROTS.

It would also help to explain their acquisition of military grade starships and fighters as one of the major benefits of gaining the sympathy of powerful allies.

Thanas wrote:Also, how in hell did they get the DS from Episode III to Geonosis?

Presumably, the Empire didn't move it all since the Geonosians were the ones who were originally building it. That scene in ROTS must have taken place somewhere in orbit over Geonosis and the planet itself was simply out of frame.